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People have said that for decades, meanwhile GW has record high profits.

So the current evidence is that they can compete, even thrive.

Yep. This just came up in a different thread so we must be at the start of the new cycle because we cover this subject every 3 to 5 years. Last time we had a serious talk about it, the prediction of many in that thread was that, by 2015, 3D printers would be as ubiquitous as microwaves and GW simply would NOT be able to keep up. And look where we are. 3D printing certainly can do amazing things, and it is very wide spread. In fact, it's never been better or easier than right now. And yet GW just smashed out record profits during a time when most people can't even physically go to a store.

3D printing isn't ever likely to put them out of business. Gluing models to the bottom of a bucket and dumping in your modling compound of choice is WAY faster, easier, and more accessible. In fact there's a semi-pro black market that is MASSIVE. If that didn't harm GW, a process that is more complicated, more time consuming, less accessible, and way more expensive, isn't likely to either. People dramatically over estimate this. Dramatically.

3D Printers aren't priced appropriately yet. They will get there eventually, but at the moment, you aren't getting GW quality models for less than GW price. The best quality non-resin printers still have some grit and lines on the model from my experience. I have an acquaintance with a resin printer, which is absurd quality, but the price point is going to match that for a while yet.

3D Printers aren't priced appropriately yet. They will get there eventually, but at the moment, you aren't getting GW quality models for less than GW price. The best quality non-resin printers still have some grit and lines on the model from my experience. I have an acquaintance with a resin printer, which is absurd quality, but the price point is going to match that for a while yet.

It's not even necessarily just the price. It's the quantity. For every 5 Primaris models you can print, GW can crank out 50 ... the economy of scale isn't likely to be overcome any time soon.

I'd suggest taking the seasonal "will 3D printing ever make GW go out of business" convo to a new thread so that we can roll our eyes at having to have the same chat again. I'm pretty sure it won't be happening any time soon but I'm also pretty sure that 3D printer fans won't shut up about it any time soon either.

3D printing now is the same as Resin Casting was 10/15 years ago

there were people selling negatives for mold making or you just copied what you have
everyone making custom bases/terrain/models etc

and the main reason it worked for some was that it was cheaper than GW (although some people claim that Resin casting is always cheaper than plastic model production)
and this is the same now with 3D printing, it is only worth it for 2 points, either no one is casting what you want/need or you compare it to GW prices

you can never make Napoleonic Soldiers cheaper or better with 3D Printing than the ones sold in plastic
except you want a scale that does not exist out there (know some people who make 2mm 3D print Napoleonic for his own use, or 15mm Kings of War)

if you compare the per model price with GW, it is worth it as you can make a Land Raider for less than the GW price in medium Quality
High Quality Resin print and you are still cheaper than those 5 model boxes from GW but larger models get expensive (or you need to adjust the files and not print solid objects)

looking at terrain, a 3D print Napoleonic themed table costs ~2 times what the same amount of GW Fantasy terrain costs

and another point is, 3D printing takes time
this is something you can do on your own for an army in a year project

but selling models outside the niche of a niche and you cannot compete against resin or plastic casting (as they can make more for less, much faster)


what 3D printing is doing now is shaking up the smale scale wargaming scene, as 2-15mm is now available for all genres for a good price in high quality

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Cybtroll wrote:

I said it before and I say it again: GW is a bubble about to burst due to 3d, printing and such. I have a 3d printer in one of our gaming chat that purchase 3d models and customize them in terms of poses and weapons as you want them. GW simply can't compete.

People have said that for decades, meanwhile GW has record high profits.

So the current evidence is that they can compete, even thrive.

I went to try and print a custom model by someone on this forum. Something the size of a daemon prince was going to run me $90 for good quality material.

yeah, no. you can buy yourself a 300$ printer with a kilogram of resin for 40$ and print ay more than 340$ worth of high quality minis. If you go to 3D printing services, of course its gonna be expensive.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

yeah, no. you can buy yourself a 300$ printer with a kilogram of resin for 40$ and print ay more than 340$ worth of high quality minis.

And take up space in your home, use up some electricity, and let's say take around 30 hours of your time monitoring the printer to ensure it doesn't mess up, and cleaning/sanding the minis after. That honestly sounds like an awesome hobby but at that point I'd rather go and do say 4 days of paid work, and buy whichever minis I want.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
yeah, no. you can buy yourself a 300$ printer with a kilogram of resin for 40$ and print ay more than 340$ worth of high quality minis. If you go to 3D printing services, of course its gonna be expensive.

Agreed. People need to factor in that the main cost of using somebody else's printer is paying for it to be tied up making your order.

Also, given the cost of an army, a $1,000 investment in 3d printing could be easily justified let alone $300. It may be in the not too distant future that we consider CAD design skills right up there with painting and modeling skills if not more valuable for their ability to be replicated at will by almost anybody.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

yeah, no. you can buy yourself a 300$ printer with a kilogram of resin for 40$ and print ay more than 340$ worth of high quality minis.

And take up space in your home, use up some electricity, and let's say take around 30 hours of your time monitoring the printer to ensure it doesn't mess up, and cleaning/sanding the minis after. That honestly sounds like an awesome hobby but at that point I'd rather go and do say 4 days of paid work, and buy whichever minis I want.

im not claiming 3d printing will kill GW (it wont), i'm saying that its much less expensive than what they made it out to be.

Oh, 40k already takes space in your home, your PC already uses up some electricity and you don't need to actively monitor the whole print.

Sure there is some extra work after the print but 3dprinting is a hobby in and of itself.

Oh, and if i can get 3 Sicaran battle tanks for 40$ instead of 450$, i'll gladly put in the extra elbow grease.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Oh, and if i can get 3 Sicaran battle tanks for 40$ instead of 450$, i'll gladly put in the extra elbow grease.

Tanks are easy. It's the stuff like Szeras. That kit would be damn hard to print, which also incidentally is the hardest kit I've ever had to build.

Tanks are easy. It's the stuff like Szeras. That kit would be damn hard to print, which also incidentally is the hardest kit I've ever had to build.

I'm still trying to figure out how I'm ever going to transport Szeras ...

I have been struggling with 3d printing as an idea. I REALLY want a Ares Gunship, but I don't want to lie to the GW store owner when he asks why it looks "off" and not crisp. I mean there are about 1001 lies that can easily cover the act. I sculpted it out of Greenstuff and old sprus! It's a self made one/Kitbash! But I don't want to lie to him or tell the truth and not be allowed to play in the store anymore.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Oh, and if i can get 3 Sicaran battle tanks for 40$ instead of 450$, i'll gladly put in the extra elbow grease.

Tanks are easy. It's the stuff like Szeras. That kit would be damn hard to print, which also incidentally is the hardest kit I've ever had to build.

fair enough, but it still wouldnt be that hard to do if youre willing to get into it. Its all about knowing where to put your supports. And i'm talking about resin 3d printers, not SLA.

I've seen some insanely detailed mini 3d printed.

Tycho wrote:

Tanks are easy. It's the stuff like Szeras. That kit would be damn hard to print, which also incidentally is the hardest kit I've ever had to build.

I'm still trying to figure out how I'm ever going to transport Szeras ...

I won't even mention how I screwed up his legs and had to hack them at the joint to switch them...gak...

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I have been struggling with 3d printing as an idea. I REALLY want a Ares Gunship, but I don't want to lie to the GW store owner when he asks why it looks "off" and not crisp. I mean there are about 1001 lies that can easily cover the act. I sculpted it out of Greenstuff and old sprus! It's a self made one/Kitbash! But I don't want to lie to him or tell the truth and not be allowed to play in the store anymore.

Find a different store if he's gonna act like a dictator then.

Tycho wrote:

Tanks are easy. It's the stuff like Szeras. That kit would be damn hard to print, which also incidentally is the hardest kit I've ever had to build.

I'm still trying to figure out how I'm ever going to transport Szeras ...

I'll put a plug here for the Battlafoam mangaracks with sliding trays. I'm able to transport everything in my 2k Army, including the Silent King in a 750 with 2 sliding mangarack trays.

i just use some Sterilite "Stack and carry" boxes with a metal sheet on the bottom and magnets under my mini's bases.

Never had anything break during transport and i have pretty fiddly armies (admech and drukhari)

 Ian Sturrock wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

yeah, no. you can buy yourself a 300$ printer with a kilogram of resin for 40$ and print ay more than 340$ worth of high quality minis.

And take up space in your home, use up some electricity, and let's say take around 30 hours of your time monitoring the printer to ensure it doesn't mess up, and cleaning/sanding the minis after. That honestly sounds like an awesome hobby but at that point I'd rather go and do say 4 days of paid work, and buy whichever minis I want.

I haven't got a meter on mine but it's two lcd screens and a servomotor, my computer has got to be using 5x-10x as much electricity.

Also, the cleaning and prep work is generally about the same as plastic models. At this point for me, the only thing that takes extra time is putting supports on. Given the approximately 90% discount compared to GW I will take it.

Latest print run I did of stuff I couldve bought from GW was 10 dire avengers, which cost approximately 6$ of resin - and I am using the more expensive, less smelly stuff. 110$ if I bought them from GW.

It's getting to be pretty crazy at this point.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I have been struggling with 3d printing as an idea. I REALLY want a Ares Gunship, but I don't want to lie to the GW store owner when he asks why it looks "off" and not crisp. I mean there are about 1001 lies that can easily cover the act. I sculpted it out of Greenstuff and old sprus! It's a self made one/Kitbash! But I don't want to lie to him or tell the truth and not be allowed to play in the store anymore.

Find a different store if he's gonna act like a dictator then.

Honestly asking: Doesn't GW do this as a blanket policy at all their events/stores? It's not his fault, he just doesn't want to get in trouble. I understand that. I wouldn't start talking up Audi's at a BMW Test drive event.

And really, showing up at an official GW store with recast or 3d printed GW or FW models is a pretty crap move. At that point you're also getting into the whole "are recasts ok?" argument - which, I'm gonna be pretty freaking blunt here - if you're 3d printing or recasting exact copies of existing, current minis that a company produces just because you don't like the price the company sets - then eff off.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I have been struggling with 3d printing as an idea. I REALLY want a Ares Gunship, but I don't want to lie to the GW store owner when he asks why it looks "off" and not crisp. I mean there are about 1001 lies that can easily cover the act. I sculpted it out of Greenstuff and old sprus! It's a self made one/Kitbash! But I don't want to lie to him or tell the truth and not be allowed to play in the store anymore.

Find a different store if he's gonna act like a dictator then.

Honestly asking: Doesn't GW do this as a blanket policy at all their events/stores? It's not his fault, he just doesn't want to get in trouble. I understand that. I wouldn't start talking up Audi's at a BMW Test drive event.

GW stores I've been at have kept to more of a don't ask/don't tell on 3d printing; if they can't tell it's 3d printed or if the 3d printing is conversion parts rather than whole minis they don't mind so much. It will depend on the manager, though, and they'll be stricter if their overseers from corporate are around.

 Mr. Grey wrote:
And really, showing up at an official GW store with recast or 3d printed GW or FW models is a pretty crap move. At that point you're also getting into the whole "are recasts ok?" argument - which, I'm gonna be pretty freaking blunt here - if you're 3d printing or recasting exact copies of existing, current minis that a company produces just because you don't like the price the company sets - then eff off.

But, but, but......most people feel their piracy is justified because GW is stealing from them by charging so much. However you've hit the nail on the head. Printing duplicates of GW models is definitely piracy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And now we are WAY off topic from the original point of this thread...

It sure beats people spamming/taking units of the best option.

 DarkBlack wrote:
It sure beats people spamming/taking units of the best option.

Huh?
There's still a best option. It's just (slightly) different now.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Tycho wrote:

Tanks are easy. It's the stuff like Szeras. That kit would be damn hard to print, which also incidentally is the hardest kit I've ever had to build.

I'm still trying to figure out how I'm ever going to transport Szeras ...

I won't even mention how I screwed up his legs and had to hack them at the joint to switch them...gak...

Right. And the "victim" on my Szeras DEFINITELY isn't over-hanging the base by a silly degree ...

I'll put a plug here for the Battlafoam mangaracks with sliding trays. I'm able to transport everything in my 2k Army, including the Silent King in a 750 with 2 sliding mangarack trays.

Thanks! I'll check that out!

 mokoshkana wrote:
3D Printers aren't priced appropriately yet. They will get there eventually, but at the moment, you aren't getting GW quality models for less than GW price. The best quality non-resin printers still have some grit and lines on the model from my experience. I have an acquaintance with a resin printer, which is absurd quality, but the price point is going to match that for a while yet.

Some people might rather pay the same cost from a 3d printed model just to keep from handing gw more money. I mean some people get sick of being gouged all the time and resent gw's blatant cash grabs.

 Mr. Grey wrote:
And really, showing up at an official GW store with recast or 3d printed GW or FW models is a pretty crap move. At that point you're also getting into the whole "are recasts ok?" argument - which, I'm gonna be pretty freaking blunt here - if you're 3d printing or recasting exact copies of existing, current minis that a company produces just because you don't like the price the company sets - then eff off.

I strongly disagree. I feel like, in a lot of cases, recasts/3d prints are more morally justifiable than buying the actual model. But then again, I don't view the highest state of existence I can aspire to as a consumer drone.

Hecaton wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:
And really, showing up at an official GW store with recast or 3d printed GW or FW models is a pretty crap move. At that point you're also getting into the whole "are recasts ok?" argument - which, I'm gonna be pretty freaking blunt here - if you're 3d printing or recasting exact copies of existing, current minis that a company produces just because you don't like the price the company sets - then eff off.

I strongly disagree. I feel like, in a lot of cases, recasts/3d prints are more morally justifiable than buying the actual model. But then again, I don't view the highest state of existence I can aspire to as a consumer drone.

You’re literally advocating for piracy here. If you feel morally objectionable to GW and any of their business practices, then don’t play their game. Recasts or 3D prints of existing models is piracy. Were you to purchase and use stand in models that someone else created from scratch, that’s different. But please don’t try to justify using recasts or exact prints of existing models as it really is patently theft.

 mokoshkana wrote:
You’re literally advocating for piracy here. If you feel morally objectionable to GW and any of their business practices, then don’t play their game. Recasts or 3D prints of existing models is piracy. Were you to purchase and use stand in models that someone else created from scratch, that’s different. But please don’t try to justify using recasts or exact prints of existing models as it really is patently theft.

Yes.jpeg

Hecaton wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:
And really, showing up at an official GW store with recast or 3d printed GW or FW models is a pretty crap move. At that point you're also getting into the whole "are recasts ok?" argument - which, I'm gonna be pretty freaking blunt here - if you're 3d printing or recasting exact copies of existing, current minis that a company produces just because you don't like the price the company sets - then eff off.

I strongly disagree. I feel like, in a lot of cases, recasts/3d prints are more morally justifiable than buying the actual model. But then again, I don't view the highest state of existence I can aspire to as a consumer drone.

So you're totally fine with stealing from designers and sculptors and the business that supports them. Not just fine even, but actually advocating it as the morally superior thing to do. Ok.