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Bugger Vect, I just want some more generic HQ choices.

Jetbike Archon with punisher, shadowfield, and drugs was one of the highlights of my life.

Right up there with mounted Dreadlord with hydra blade, inverse wardsave, and potion of strength.

I have a type.

I hope Dark Eldar get some HQ option back. Vect, Jetbike, Baron, Sliscus...

Sadly, I'd bet on just Lelith.

If we're wish listing, I would love a Drukhari Psyker. The fluff preventing it is silly, and easily retconned or circumvented.

 Red Viper wrote:
Jetbike Archon with punisher, shadowfield, and drugs was one of the highlights of my life.

Yeah!! ^^ Missing that so much </3

It’s weird that they haven’t made a skyboard or jetbike variant to any of the DE HQs. Feels like such an obvious design space, and could bring a lot of interesting synergy to reavers, hellions, and scourges, to have them accompany/accompanied by.

The fact that nobody at GW has ever apparently noticed the obvious HQ pet peeve with drukhari - namely, that they have no mobility option and because the transports only have unit capacity in intervals of 5 putting an HQ in your transport means he basically takes up 5 transport slots - is basically all the proof I need to tell me that the last 3 codexes they've gotten have been written by people who've literally never played the army.

The question of 'what the feth do I do with my worthless HQs' is so persistently obnoxious when playing drukhari and is unlike any of the other ~10 factions I've played in 40k that any person with more than 2-3 games of experience with them who gets the chance to design a book would immediately go

"Wait...no, that's wrong. Let me fix that."

Every other faction I'm either perfectly OK with the HQ slot or I'm really wishing I had more HQ slots. The fact that Drukhari HQs are annoying to fit into the list, annoying to move around and protect during the game, and have basically no lynchpin function in any list is immediately obvious when you play basically any list with the faction.

Haemonculus: "oh, cool, my Grotesques are T6 instead of T5 and my pain engines are T7 instead of T6. That's...that makes no difference almost ever, does it? Yep, nope, looks like almost all anti-elite weaponry is S7 or S8 and almost all anti-monster weaponry is S8 or S9, literally makes a difference like once per game."

Succubus: Melee duelist HQ who can only win duels against tau, guard, and eldar HQs, everyone elses characters rips her a new one in 2 rounds. Guard HQs can be a problem if they bring powerfists. Most useful thing you can do with her is take the gak drugs like +WS and +LD so you can give more good drugs to the rest of your list.

Archon: Best HQ of the bunch, because he can stand in the back and read fanmail from Vect to a trio of Ravagers. Guess which thing we know for 100% certain is changing in the new codex to not work anymore?

Well I like my archon like it is currently: All powerful madman in Venom with snake people as bodyguards and armed with blaster pistol with golden ork skull attached to it.

Although if talking about options, I would really like a proper unit of Sslyths. Not just an bodyguard to Archon but as an proper Elite unit. Would be an nice option.

Archons are clearly meant to ride in a transport with a Court bodyguard (note that this is obviously not the most effective way to play them), while Haemonculi work fine on foot. It's really only Succubi that would benefit hugely from additional mobility options, in my mind.

How Drukhari HQs should work as a whole is definitely a question that GW didn't really manage to find a good answer for in 8th and I'm hoping they do come up with a better solution here.

 Red Viper wrote:
Jetbike Archon with punisher, shadowfield, and drugs was one of the highlights of my life.

It's especially depressing because of how interchangeable the DE range is - so you could easily convert a Jetbike, Skyboard or Winged Archon without even needing a dedicated kit.

Leggy wrote:
If we're wish listing, I would love a Drukhari Psyker. The fluff preventing it is silly, and easily retconned or circumvented.

I've always thought a Mandrake Lord could fulfil a psyker-like role in terms of having various support abilities. I mean, Mandrakes are shown to have all manner of strange powers, many of which resemble magic. Plus, if the army remains split, a Mandrake Lord would be useable by all 3 factions.

It would give DE psyker-like elements without breaking the 'no psykers' fluff.

I’ll second everything The_scotsman said.

Anybody with an ounce of common sense or who has played like 3 games of 40K should know that the limited transport capacity of their vehicles, coupled with their almost completely useless and mandatory HQ choices make for some of the most frustrating list building I’ve ever seen.

You can’t even take 4 incubi and an Archon in a venom anymore.

Also, I hate the council of the archon and refuse to use them unless they put Incubi in there.

Also, where’s out generic Incubi Lords? Literally the coolest unit in the army and they’ve done nothing with Incubi. You could expand that concept into an entire sub-faction.

Also, I second the motion to give DE psykers.

Leggy wrote:
If we're wish listing, I would love a Drukhari Psyker. The fluff preventing it is silly, and easily retconned or circumvented.

The fluff provides a model that is basically the dark eldar version of that. The Cronos. It just is often overlooked because it's rules are arguable the worst in the entire game.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Leggy wrote:
If we're wish listing, I would love a Drukhari Psyker. The fluff preventing it is silly, and easily retconned or circumvented.

The fluff provides a model that is basically the dark eldar version of that. The Cronos. It just is often overlooked because it's rules are arguable the worst in the entire game.

Honestly it's so goddamn cheap at this point that in a coven list one kinda makes sense as a lieutenant aura with quasi-dreadnought level durability.

It's jus so funny that this huge thing puts out such hilarious, pitiful damage. I always love when it rolls up on some opponents model and I'm like "AND NOW you shall face the wrath of his....ONE STRENGTH THREE FLAMER! And then, quiver in fear of his....TWO STRENGTH FIVE DAMAGE 1 MELEE ATTACKS!"

its like if you could buy a dreadnought with just the feet attack, no guns, but a lieutenant aura.

I'll also echo The_Scotsman's eloquent words regarding both mobility/transport capacity and also the functionality (or lack thereof) of our HQs.

Indeed, I think transport capacity could well function as a litmus-test for whether the new codex has been written by someone who is familiar with the army, or a Marine player who is just randomly flicking switches to create the illusion of meaningful change, so that he can go back to writing more Marine books.

Regarding HQs, Scotsman was spot-on when he said that they didn't fulfil a lynchpin role in the army, or really any role at all.

However, I think a related problem is that the DE HQs just aren't fun.

The Archon doesn't feel like a master strategist or an expert swordsman wielding all manner of alien devices. He doesn't even feel like the commander of Dark Eldar. He has almost no wargear or other options (in contrast, does anyone remember the First Prince rule for Corsairs?), and the few weapons he has access do certainly don't feel like they are the best, most expensive gear available. No, they all feel like he found them in a bin on a planet where the Heavy Stubber is the pinnacle of advanced weaponry. He has zero fun abilities, zero tricks, zero interesting special rules. All he has is the most basic, boring aura available, except that is doesn't work on 2/3 of the army, nor on the remaining third if he and/or it is in a transport.

And this is the closest thing we currently have to an overall leader of our faction.


Then we have the Succubus, an alleged melee specialist who is supposed to be an expert in duelling other characters. Naturally, then, she has the fewest attacks of all the DE HQs and none of her base weapons do multiple damage or Mortal Wounds. Indeed, it should probably say something about her base wargear that one of her artefacts is just a Power Fist. She also has no rules pertaining to duelling or indeed to melee in general, barring her aura (reroll 1s in melee, wooooo). Impressively, her aura works on even fewer units than the Archon's as it doesn't affect Beasts (in spite of them being Cult units for all intents and purposes), and while it technically works on Reavers and Hellions, good luck catching up to them with no access to jetbikes or skyboards.


And lastly we come to the Haemonculus, a mix of mad-scientist and beastmaster. He has the most options out of the three HQs (not that that's saying much), it's just a pity that almost all of them can be summed up as 'An Electrocorrosive Whip but much worse'. Naturally, he has no gear that would give him a different role - it's just a lot of poisoned weapons that do basically the same thing, with the aforementioned whip being objectively better. What thrilling options. But the Haemonculus isn't really about interesting weapons, right? Well actually he kinda is, but let's just set that to one side anyway. After all, what they're best known for is their hideous science experiments - including their fearsome, once-humanoid creations, regenerating fallen Archons, and all manner of surgical experiments and augmentations. So how is all of that represented? Can the Haemonculus heal or revive fallen HQs? No. Can you buy augmentations for your other HQs when you have one? No. Does he whip his experiments into a frenzy, forcing them to charge impossible distances or attack at unerring speed, even as their metabolism consumes itself? No. Coven stuff just kinda gets a bit tougher when he's standing near it (though never to the point where it would actually be meaningful, of course). That's it. That's all he does. Boy what an exciting rule and what a thrilling realisation of a mad geneticist.

If our HQs aren't allowed to be good, would it be too much to ask that they at least do something functionally interesting?

 Red Corsair wrote:

Leggy wrote:
If we're wish listing, I would love a Drukhari Psyker. The fluff preventing it is silly, and easily retconned or circumvented.

The fluff provides a model that is basically the dark eldar version of that. The Cronos. It just is often overlooked because it's rules are arguable the worst in the entire game.

That's an interesting point. Certainly stealing life to heal or empower other units would be in keeping with DE's flavour (aren't Mandrake Bane Blasts specifically fuelled by stolen life?).

Out of interest, are you thinking along the lines of an improved Cronos or a HQ with that sort of ability?

Weirdly, when GW does represent "scientific" type units, they tend to be more random and less precise abilities than space wizards channeling the powers of turbo hell to shoot lightning out of their nipples.

The haemonculus is almost unique in the fact that it is a science-y character and the benefits he provides are not random and have no chance to instantly kersplode the things he's buffing.

Its certainly hard to see why Venoms getting 6 spots and Raiders getting say 12 would break the game.

Not sure what I'd hope for on characters. I know Marine salt etc - but I just don't see Archons/Succubi or Haemonculi running around like Smash Captains. And if they can't, I'd rather they were 50 point buff bots. Except GW has clearly decided buff bots are the worst thing ever for factions that have the temerity to use vehicles, so.... yeah.

If characters could be comparable to buffbot/stabby Cannonesses that's probably enough for me. Or just go back to letting us take a 10 (or whatever) point Lhamaean as our warlord.

Tyel wrote:
Its certainly hard to see why Venoms getting 6 spots and Raiders getting say 12 would break the game.

Not sure what I'd hope for on characters. I know Marine salt etc - but I just don't see Archons/Succubi or Haemonculi running around like Smash Captains. And if they can't, I'd rather they were 50 point buff bots. Except GW has clearly decided buff bots are the worst thing ever for factions that have the temerity to use vehicles, so.... yeah.

If characters could be comparable to buffbot/stabby Cannonesses that's probably enough for me. Or just go back to letting us take a 10 (or whatever) point Lhamaean as our warlord.

I've proposed those capacities for the transports, and it's clear that the way DE should operate isn't done well with the rules. We would need basically a whole section on the codex to go over Open Top transports. Like for aura purposes you can benefit, and then something regarding how flamers and auto hit weapons and blast weapons can still affect them.

 vipoid wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Leggy wrote:
If we're wish listing, I would love a Drukhari Psyker. The fluff preventing it is silly, and easily retconned or circumvented.

The fluff provides a model that is basically the dark eldar version of that. The Cronos. It just is often overlooked because it's rules are arguable the worst in the entire game.

That's an interesting point. Certainly stealing life to heal or empower other units would be in keeping with DE's flavour (aren't Mandrake Bane Blasts specifically fuelled by stolen life?).

Out of interest, are you thinking along the lines of an improved Cronos or a HQ with that sort of ability?

I think theres room to include that role in both the Cronos as well as the Haemonculus.

The crucibles of malediction/caskets of flensing and black orbs for example. Remember the shattershard? I feel like the Haemoculus can have science based effects similar to crypteks while the Cronos cna be more like a soul based effect like the powers of the C'tan.

I'd rather they fix the stuff that already exists before moving on to new things. I get that other DE players want expanded HQ options and so would I, but that's a pipe dream. I actually expect the HQ's to have even LESS options then they currently have. Why? Because the current plastic kits have so few options. I doubt the Succubus can take wych gear or the haemi can take coven gear like hexrifles or E-whips or the Archon can take agonizers or venom blades as they all are missing from the official kits. So I am really hoping they make everything at least functional and preferably viable. Nobody wants to be stuck with set gear that also blows lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Its certainly hard to see why Venoms getting 6 spots and Raiders getting say 12 would break the game.

Not sure what I'd hope for on characters. I know Marine salt etc - but I just don't see Archons/Succubi or Haemonculi running around like Smash Captains. And if they can't, I'd rather they were 50 point buff bots. Except GW has clearly decided buff bots are the worst thing ever for factions that have the temerity to use vehicles, so.... yeah.

If characters could be comparable to buffbot/stabby Cannonesses that's probably enough for me. Or just go back to letting us take a 10 (or whatever) point Lhamaean as our warlord.

I've proposed those capacities for the transports, and it's clear that the way DE should operate isn't done well with the rules. We would need basically a whole section on the codex to go over Open Top transports. Like for aura purposes you can benefit, and then something regarding how flamers and auto hit weapons and blast weapons can still affect them.

Venoms are tiny so I can see the hard cap on 5, especially since they are not really considered impressive or opulant rides. Raider however should at the very least allow for 10 models plus 1 character with some sort of Dais/Command deck rule that projects their auras from the hull.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I actually expect the HQ's to have even LESS options then they currently have. Why? Because the current plastic kits have so few options. I doubt the Succubus can take wych gear or the haemi can take coven gear like hexrifles or E-whips or the Archon can take agonizers or venom blades as they all are missing from the official kits. So I am really hoping they make everything at least functional and preferably viable. Nobody wants to be stuck with set gear that also blows lol.

If DE HQs get saddled with no options beyond the single, garbage loadouts in their kits, I think I'll take an extended break from this hobby.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Venoms are tiny so I can see the hard cap on 5, especially since they are not really considered impressive or opulant rides. Raider however should at the very least allow for 10 models plus 1 character with some sort of Dais/Command deck rule that projects their auras from the hull.

An alternative (especially where the Venom is concerned) would be to lower the squad caps. They could make Warriors, Wyches and Wracks minimum 4 instead of 5, and let them take 1 special/wych weapon per 4 instead of per 5. Hell, Mandrakes, Wracks and Incubi all used to be minimum 3.

 vipoid wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I actually expect the HQ's to have even LESS options then they currently have. Why? Because the current plastic kits have so few options. I doubt the Succubus can take wych gear or the haemi can take coven gear like hexrifles or E-whips or the Archon can take agonizers or venom blades as they all are missing from the official kits. So I am really hoping they make everything at least functional and preferably viable. Nobody wants to be stuck with set gear that also blows lol.

If DE HQs get saddled with no options beyond the single, garbage loadouts in their kits, I think I'll take an extended break from this hobby.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Venoms are tiny so I can see the hard cap on 5, especially since they are not really considered impressive or opulant rides. Raider however should at the very least allow for 10 models plus 1 character with some sort of Dais/Command deck rule that projects their auras from the hull.

An alternative (especially where the Venom is concerned) would be to lower the squad caps. They could make Warriors, Wyches and Wracks minimum 4 instead of 5, and let them take 1 special/wych weapon per 4 instead of per 5. Hell, Mandrakes, Wracks and Incubi all used to be minimum 3.

I mean if it were up to me i'd just leave the weapons as 1 per 5, that way you're not creating a system whereby people just save 1 models worth of points on every squad.

Sooo...who is going to go buy dome DE kits and get us some leaks?

Being the reboxed sets Venoms, Scourges and Kabalites...

DE players have enough of those to not bother buying more until the Codex drops. Even then those models are incidentally in so many boxes that I think I've never bought one separately. Maybe my first Venom 4-5 years ago...

the_scotsman wrote:

I mean if it were up to me i'd just leave the weapons as 1 per 5, that way you're not creating a system whereby people just save 1 models worth of points on every squad.

Because then you're still stuck with the exact same problem you have right now - wherein the HQ is actually detrimental to any squad he joins in a vehicle.

Without an Archon, I can have 2 Blasters in a Raider. With an Archon, I'm limited to 1.

I can tell you which of those will be more useful 99% of the time, and I'm afraid it ain't the Archon.

A raider should have more(or the same) transport capacity than a wave serpent, not only is it open with lots more room to stand rather than crammed into the hull, we know that dark elder literally hang off the side of the hull holding onto the railings.

and venoms should have at least 6 transport spots.

 warmaster21 wrote:
A raider should have more(or the same) transport capacity than a wave serpent, not only is it open with lots more room to stand rather than crammed into the hull, we know that dark elder literally hang off the side of the hull holding onto the railings.

On that note, it would be nice if Raiders were also faster than Wave Serpents, given that this was the whole point of their trading out armour.

 vipoid wrote:
On that note, it would be nice if Raiders were also faster than Wave Serpents, given that this was the whole point of their trading out armour.

Yeah, really hoping for an increase in movement for the DE transports/vehicles ^^

I am just wondering how they are going to justify taking an Archon when he is most likely only going to allow reroll 1s on Core units(and maybe only limited to Kabalite warriors).

I do hope they boost his combat utility and damage.

ursvamp wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
On that note, it would be nice if Raiders were also faster than Wave Serpents, given that this was the whole point of their trading out armour.

Yeah, really hoping for an increase in movement for the DE transports/vehicles ^^

I have faith GW will deliver, and Drukhari players everywhere will rejoice...

...until the updated Craftworld codex releases and Wave Serpents inexplicably move even faster than the Raider.

At this point, all I'm hoping for is perhaps we can run our forces combined again as opposed to focusing on the cabals, covens, etc. Like keep the rules for those groups but I dislike needing multiple detachments or just focusing on one group of DE units.

That they won't bugger up the weapon load outs and make the army feel good.

I think asking for anything more is setting up for sadness as really they don't seem to care about giving DE new models outside of touching up a certain special wych who while nice already had a very good model, Imo.

I got my fingers crossed for all you DE out there, myself included.

the_scotsman wrote:
It's jus so funny that this huge thing puts out such hilarious, pitiful damage. I always love when it rolls up on some opponents model and I'm like "AND NOW you shall face the wrath of his....ONE STRENGTH THREE FLAMER! And then, quiver in fear of his....TWO STRENGTH FIVE DAMAGE 1 MELEE ATTACKS!"

Oh come on! There's no way the Cronos is that bad...

*reads Codex entry*

... oh damn!

Yeah. That needs fixing!

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Sooo...who is going to go buy dome DE kits and get us some leaks?

I got a brand new box of Kabalites in the mail today...

... and it's the old box, not the new one. So no fancy rules.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Sooo...who is going to go buy dome DE kits and get us some leaks?

I got a brand new box of Kabalites in the mail today...

... and it's the old box, not the new one. So no fancy rules.

Aw, that’s too bad!

Sotahullu wrote:
Well I like my archon like it is currently: All powerful madman in Venom with snake people as bodyguards and armed with blaster pistol with golden ork skull attached to it.

Although if talking about options, I would really like a proper unit of Sslyths. Not just an bodyguard to Archon but as an proper Elite unit. Would be an nice option.

According to the Field manual, it looks like the "bodyguard" section makes all the bodyguard you take a single unit now, not just a bunch of individuals. So, that's kind of what you're after.


As a whole, I think we need to have a clear vision of what Dark Eldar are as an army. I wan them to be a semi-horde army that is FAST. They need to hit like a ton of bricks on any turn they charge, but start to flounder in any kind of protracted combat. I think they need rules that allow them to decide where and when combat happens, and punishes them for letting the enemy dictate that. With that in mind I'd love it if Dark Eldar got an army-wide "Always Strikes First when charging" rule. Making their weapons suck less would help too.