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Ok, thanks for this post, its always nice to see someone adressing the problem.

Firstly, the model, i am still playing with the same models my best buddy gifted to me in my childhood, the worst problem are not the models per se (some i admit are not so bad and are totally viable today, like all the vehicles) but the fact that when you play vs newer armies (specially SM) its literally embarassing, its like playing two different games, the scale its completely wrong and some phoenix lords are hilarius (asurmen lol)

The fact that got me mad the most its the fact that i really, REALLY, liked the new Jain Zar and banshee models (having and option to go without helm its awesome imho), and fielding them with the likes of i dunno, dark reapers? seems like you are playing with two armies and it feels uneven, so i really hope all the aspect gets the same love,because the new kits are awesome.

Secondly, lore wise, i was unbelevably happy when finally we had a place in the lore that was not a tragedy or a punching bag, ynnari was a answer, a key to all the problems, finally we could stand our ground, have our vengeance, fight and kill slaneesh

And then? i found out we probably were written just to ress bobby G and show how ultramarine and theyr primarch are cool, then we got two totally forgettable novels. i was mad, REALLY mad

And lastly, i get that SM prints money, but the hobby for me its getting more frustrating than ever, i see al my friends getting all the cool models, new player starting with SM (cause what sane lad starts with a 25yo army?) and the meta in my local its slowly becoming all space marines, and its not fun to see my whole army getting deleted turn 2 by eradicators (who tf designed theyr rules lol)

Well, this is my point of view, i really hope gw shows us some love and we finally get the love we deserve

But the new DE codex with just 1(!!) new models it dosnt sounds good for the knive eared (also atm lelith rules completly sucks)

Oh well, artel W its a nice alternative i guess

I just want to know why GW has left the Craftworld Eldar range in such a sad state.

Ancient models, most never making it to plastic.
Some dating back a good twenty years.
I just don't get it.

Do they want to do a massive range update like Necrons and bring the army into the 21st century?

Or do they want to cut their loses, scrap the range and start over with something brand new.

For heaven's sake do one of the two. Leaving the army in this weird living death limbo state is ridiculous.

How can anyone even think about getting into collecting Craftwords Eldar at the moment?
When they have no support from GW.

I think I’m gonna defend Dark Eldar at this juncture.

As a complete range, they’ve done really quite well over the past 10 or so years since their total overhaul.

Sure, some Codex options (characters, true born and The Elite Wyches I Can’t Remember The Name Of Right Now) have fallen by the way side - and that shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand.

But, for the most part, they’re in a far better place than Craftworlds. As I offered earlier, the range has a unifying design language, so the three constituent parts.

They may not be getting much new this Edition (or at least at this point, because we no longer seem tied to “Codex and that’s it until next Codex” releases), but from the same perspective of Outside Looking In, it seems to me the main thing they need are the plasticification of Grotesques, Archon’s Court, the Beastmaster and his Gribblies.

Rules wise I again shan’t comment due to lack of knowledge.

But as a range, they’re one of the more coherent available.

Nids likewise have done surprisingly well over then years. Each Codex has brought a decent number of new units, and eventually models. We’ve even seen stuff originally released in metal only a few years back plasticificated relatively soon after - a stark contrast to Craftworlds.

And that’s what I think I’m getting at most here. Saying Craftworld’s have received the poopy end of the stick isn’t to say no one else needs some spit and polish. Just that Craftworld need the big end, chassis, gangleflange and giggle stick replacing, a full on redo (but not reboot, please not a reboot) from the ground up. Others just need the tyres changing and maybe a new bumper.

And they need it desperately.

Exactly.

Most of the other semi neglected armies need an oil change and maybe a couple of new tyres.

Craftworlds never made it to the garage in the first place.

Without wanting to derail the thread, Dark Eldar players are annoyed because since 5e they have only lost models. They've lost a bunch of their character models.

And along with that, they've lost options. They can't kitbash Archons onto Jetbikes and so on.

Whereas that was left as an option for Marine players. It's just an example of the double standard.

But I agree, the Dark Eldar range is nice. I was happy with what I was able to pick up to throw together a small raiding force. But I'm just dipping my toe in, I'm not a hardcore collector. If I was, I'd probably feel a bit more hard done by.

I think they will keep updating Dark Eldar bit by bit.
Now Leilith is on the way, I'd put money on Urien Rakarth coming next with a unit of Grotesques to accompany him.

Makes sense right?

 dan2026 wrote:
I think they will keep updating Dark Eldar bit by bit.
Now Leilith is on the way, I'd put money on Urien Rakarth coming next with a unit of Grotesques to accompany him.

Makes sense right?

Agree completely. The gaps in the Drukhari model line are modest, and easily fixable; and would be even easier if GW relaxed 'no model no rules'.

The Asuryani situation is shambolic in comparison.

Fair points on the DE aspect. Not sure I need to point out my General Ignorance any more - my posts speak for themselves!

Now. Here’s a genuine experiment, and I’m not sure how it’s gonna turn out. But I want to compare the treatment the Necrons just got, to what needs doing models wise with the Eldar.

Flicking through my Codex, Necrons got.....

3 new Cryptek sculpts (plus a Store Exclusive). The existing one isn’t terribly old either (no more than 3 years if memory serves?)
Skorpekh Destroyers
Ophydian Destroyers
Hexmark Destroyers
Necron Warriors (added in weapon option)
Heavy Destroyer
Skorpekh Lord
Silent King
Monolith
Void Dragon C’Tan
Flayed Ones (well, eventually!)
Illuminor Szeras
Canoptek Doomstalker
Convergence of Dominion
Canoptek Reanimator

14. 14 releases, and a mix of new and redo.

Am I happy with that as a Necron player? Hell yes I am. My army looks great. And I’m spoiled for choice in terms of what sort of Necron force I want to field.

That I’m also in-line to grab some bargains from Imperium is entirely incidental.

Craftworld? They need
Swooping Hawks
Fire Dragons
Warp Spiders
Striking Scorpions
Shining Spears
Phoenix Lords (at least some of them, but I reckon Maugan Ra still holds up today!)
Vyper
Falcon (how about an alternative to the Pulse Laser?)
Warlocks
Avatar (oh Lord is this a must! All other Daemons have been scoffing Naughty Steroids after all!)
Eldar Rangers
Guardians (at least duel kit with Storm Guardians. And do an Ork whilst your at it, slinging in a plastic Warlock as you did with the Nob)

That’s....erm....11, again counting the Phoenix Lords as a blob. Necron SC remain in Finecast, so maybe don’t get hopes up?

So a complete overhaul is within grasp - with room to add new units if they fancy.

I just want to know why GW has left the Craftworld Eldar range in such a sad state.

They had other more money making stuff to sell first and AoS stuff to establish a new game.

At the same time eldar stuff seemed to have sold well as long as it had good or OP rules, so there was no reason to update models that were selling well enough.

Those ugly Walker things too, what an eyesore.

The War Walker?

I kinda like that kit.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
We’ve literally seen Jes Goodwin’s sketch books.

Honestly, this might be the most disappointing part of it all. Those sketchbooks - and, to a point, Eldar depictions in fluff etc. are so zany and intriguing that it just feels like an awful shame that Eldar are kind of locked into the same paradigm of army composition - spellcasters, guardians, aspects, autarchs, fast attack, transports, tanks and wraiths - when they have such potential. Considering that GW wrote themselves into a bit of a lore corner with the wider imperium, and the Space Marines, and then handwaved it away with "Ah. Yeah well, whenever you notice something like that, Cawl did it."
There's absolutely no reason GW couldn't throw in some more unusual stuff, that uses those images of fur-cloaked, pistol toting, wraithbone bekick-kanck'd , glorious, hoity-toity space knife-ears.
Like, we have guardians - great, no problem (some problem, they're old as dirt), they're mostly conscripts. But what would a unit of grizzled Eldar vets. look like? What would Eldar Marines (not Space Marines, Marine Marines, like for ship boarding etc.) look like? Give me princelings, diplomats, scryers and wraithbone-readers, a derth of characters like GSC got - comms guys, assassins, shamans!
When I look at the triumverate - though Ynari specific - I just drool. Really some of the best designs for characters GW have maybe ever done in 40k ( if only they were priced a bit more fairly! ) and a glimmering suggestion of what Olympian heights GW could achieve.
Like, who remembers the trailer for DOWIII? Remember those Banshees? They were stunning. I think I'm far from alone when I talk about the raw impact those designs had. While surely, rendering that kind of organic detail in plastic would be nigh-impossible (I would love GW to prove me wrong here...), I think we can all agree that by comparison the (￥7700 ) plastic kit is just limited and underwhelming.
I think it's all not helped, too, in terms of the goodwill of the Eldar player community, knowing that perhaps the most cynical model-selling tactic - dropping points to shift plastic - is pretty much confirmed to have be used on them. GW broke the balance of a codex to push new hotness deliberately. Like, it's disappointing to see a whole faction of the community used as cashcows, no?

Now, time for a patented McBogus Tinfoil Time™
There have been whispers for a while (confirmed? unconfirmed? I'm just some idiot on the internet, I'm not gonna check my sources! The burden of proof isn't a burden if my hands are too full of nachos to carry it!) that 40k was gonna get AOS'd until the fallout of 1st ed. scared old Geedubs into changing course. I don't think it's unrealistic, considering the revamp of:
Spess Marines (ad infinitum)
Chaos Spess Marines
Necrons
SoB
and probably orks, considering most of their recent releases seem to be sculpted more like Orruks (BONUS McBogus Tinfoil™ here, folks)

With that in mind, I don't imagine it's totally unrealistic that Eldar - and DEldar - were actually in for something much more radical, esp. considering all the Ynari stuff. If GW have felt like they've had to walk some stuff back, it could well be at a loss for where to go next...

Spoilered for ultra-tinfoil plated tinfoil™



Okay, tinfoil off, putting the fizzy drink down, and having a nice sit down on the quiet step with mummy.
TLDR; Yeah, this sucks, dudes. Eldar players - I hope you get fun new minis soon, and don't have to scour ebay for metals to have to avoid how fubar Eldar finecast minis always are.
Everyone else except Primaris Marine collectors, I hope you all get cool toys soon, too, because more friends with more toys is more good.

Thoughts on the Vyper specifically?

Make it a better gunship.

With 8th and 9th Ed removing weaker side and rear armour, it’s manouverability is less of an advantage. I mean, it’s still nice to have of course.

But right now, it’s just a speedy platform for a single heavy weapon. Yes, you can swap out the twin Shuriken Catapults for a Shuriken Cannon - but not without converting.

Give it a choice of secondary weapon. Let it be as flexible a platform as the humble Landspeeder.

Isn't the vyper much cheaper then the landspeeder, and there is already a two heavy weapon type of vyper from FW, and eldar players don't seem to be using those en mass.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So a complete overhaul is within grasp - with room to add new units if they fancy.

That's a big difference though. The majority of the cron units are new (or getting rid of costly transparent pieces) whereas all of your listed craftworld units are existing units with models.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I think I’m gonna defend Dark Eldar at this juncture.
As a complete range, they’ve done really quite well over the past 10 or so years since their total overhaul.

The old release tracker doesn't go past mid 2016. What have they actually had in the past half dozen years aside from units pulled from the codex?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Rules wise I again shan’t comment due to lack of knowledge.

Unfortunately, GW made them fairly miserable to play in 9th. They took what was already a fairly small range, and split it into 3 for no reason, dividing them up exactly as much as any other two factions in the game that share an alliance keyword. Wych Cult and Haemonculus Coven units are as compatible as Sisters of Battle and Imperial Guard. Then they declared that another large chunk of units just...don't get to have army-wide special rules, for no real reason. Dark Eldar have always been an army of mercenary units that work together because they got hired by some archon or schemer person (that'd be, um, you the player) but GW decided "nope, this...snake man thing who isn't even a dark eldar, he's part of the Kabals, but these dark eldar with wings, they're mercenaries and such never ever ever get any traits, you just have to fight against your opponent who gets 2 chapter tactics rules, doctrines and superdoctrines and hope for the best!"

Also, when they were going ahead and making that division between the subfactions, they decided to take all the anti-light infantry stuff and make it one subfaction, then all the antitank stuff and make it another subfaction, and all the heavy durable stuff and make it the third one. Thanks, GW, gonna be really easy to make a coherent army out of that! Like if Space Marine captains and lieutenants could only give aura buffs to space marine troops, and in order to get any unit with a lascannon you had to take a mandatory pair of Techmarine HQs in a separate detachment, and for some reason dreadnoughts didn't get chapter tactics because they're just too old.

that combined with the fact that they're transport-based in an edition that makes transports just laughably bad at what they're intended to do, and their HQ section is absolutely miserable and boring, they really do just have the model range that is incredibly incredibly gorgeous. everyone should build and paint a dark eldar army, it's just the most liberating exercise in enjoyable kitbashing, but for gods sake never put them on the fething table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

A.T. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So a complete overhaul is within grasp - with room to add new units if they fancy.

That's a big difference though. The majority of the cron units are new (or getting rid of costly transparent pieces) whereas all of your listed craftworld units are existing units with models.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I think I’m gonna defend Dark Eldar at this juncture.
As a complete range, they’ve done really quite well over the past 10 or so years since their total overhaul.

The old release tracker doesn't go past mid 2016. What have they actually had in the past half dozen years aside from units pulled from the codex?

2016 was after the wracks and plastic HQs, so...

Drazar, incubi, and lelith for the past 2 editions.

Hey, doin' better than craftworld and harlequins....

the_scotsman wrote:
2016 was after the wracks and plastic HQs, so...
Drazar, incubi, and lelith for the past 2 editions.
Hey, doin' better than craftworld and harlequins....

Drazar and the Incubi were released alongside Jain Zar and the Banshees, and Lelith isn't here quite yet...

The last DE update listed before that was the smallish Haemonculus Covens in 2014 (haemonculus, wracks, voidraven, succumbus, archon), just after the 2013 craftworlds releases (wraithknight, wraithguard, Illic, farseer, hemlock, hunter).
Harlies were 2015 (6 kits) along with autarch/farseer/warlock models and windriders. Eldrad in 2016, Spiritseer in 2018, and that named ranger whenever he came out. Also the pariah :p

-so if you set aside the long awaited (and I mean looooooooooong awaited 5e DE update, my god they were old) and just look at 6e and onwards the craftworlders appear to have actually outpaced the DE a little.

-------------------------

Lets see, new source...
Guard - sly marbo and severina raine. And that's it since the scions came out (also 2014)
Tyranids since 2014 ? Nothing, really? The list does not look comprehensive but I can't offhand think of anything for them either.
GK of course are dead (RIP 2011)
Tau are quiet but relatively up to date
And orks got a big vehicle pack that apparently I completely missed.

Honestly Tyranids have done really well over the years. Yes they've not had anything new in a long time, but what they've got is really great overall. About the only thing people hate are things like gaunts still having split heads when assembling; but otherwise their range has aged well and kept up to date. Even things like chunky big ball and socket arms just work for them as part of their partly insectoid designs and such.

Tyranids are in a position where they don't need a big update; if they got one the onyl way to take it would be a major redesign of their asthetics

A.T. wrote:

-so if you set aside the long awaited (and I mean looooooooooong awaited 5e DE update, my god they were old) and just look at 6e and onwards the craftworlders appear to have actually outpaced the DE a little.
.

12 years old, it's not particularly long for GW. They were rather outdated aesthetically than old. No other range got a full update ten years after its creation as far as I can tell.
And CWE got twice the amount of releases than DE from 6th to 8th (and probably in general, being a tad bit older).

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Miniatures:_Dark_Eldar
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Miniatures:_Eldar

 Overread wrote:
Honestly Tyranids have done really well over the years. Yes they've not had anything new in a long time, but what they've got is really great overall. About the only thing people hate are things like gaunts still having split heads when assembling; but otherwise their range has aged well and kept up to date. Even things like chunky big ball and socket arms just work for them as part of their partly insectoid designs and such.

Tyranids are in a position where they don't need a big update; if they got one the onyl way to take it would be a major redesign of their asthetics

With the new rumor engine today its looking likely that at least two old tyranids kits might be updated soon.
Lictor and the Red Terror.

I also fear unfortunately for eldar players, GW is going to go the exodite way, and no new CW models will appear.
I would be sad for you guys, you deserve a necron treatment, but rescaling and redoing the 20 year old kits just seems like a bad business move. Creating exodites on the other hand, that seems like an incredible cash cow, customers will go nuts !
I hope I am wrong and that CW gets the necron / sista treatment, fingers crossed for you guys

 dan2026 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly Tyranids have done really well over the years. Yes they've not had anything new in a long time, but what they've got is really great overall. About the only thing people hate are things like gaunts still having split heads when assembling; but otherwise their range has aged well and kept up to date. Even things like chunky big ball and socket arms just work for them as part of their partly insectoid designs and such.

Tyranids are in a position where they don't need a big update; if they got one the onyl way to take it would be a major redesign of their asthetics

With the new rumor engine today its looking likely that at least two old tyranids kits might be updated soon.
Lictor and the Red Terror.

Speaking of which....

Craftworld Eldar have never featured in the Rumour Engine.

At all.

Ever.

Not once.

 Mezmorki wrote:
I love Eldar, and they are my favorite race (and i have about 4,000 points of them still from back in the 2nd edition era).

But I also think Eldar are in need of more than just a model refresh. Looking a lot of the other armies at this point, the Eldar I feel really lack character. Part of the that is the models, but part of it comes down to things like unit customization and wargear, and what that means in turns for kit basing and models. I also don't know how you change that without disrupting things too much. But I had a few thoughts...

The lore talks about the various aspect paths, and how many warrior walk multiple paths. What if units of aspect warriors worked such that you could run a "pure" aspect list, but could also make hybrid aspect units. Imagine warp spider jump generators coupled to a striking scorpion close combat kit. Or swooping dragons, etc. I think there could be some opportunity to make units more customizable and unique and shake up the static nature of the eldar units.

Another issue, IMHO, are guardians. I think part of what gets people excited about a faction is how cool, fun, exciting, inspiring their basic troop choices are. Guardians are about the least interesting unit in the game. They are close range units but get slaughtered in close combat - making them very risky (and not at all lore aligned) to use. something needs to be done with them too.

I like this idea for Aspect Warriors but I could see GW advancing the "dying race" trope and possibly retconning the lore so that due to the so few Craftworlder's remaining they start joining Aspect Warriors into Deathwatch style squads.

 dan2026 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly Tyranids have done really well over the years. Yes they've not had anything new in a long time, but what they've got is really great overall. About the only thing people hate are things like gaunts still having split heads when assembling; but otherwise their range has aged well and kept up to date. Even things like chunky big ball and socket arms just work for them as part of their partly insectoid designs and such.

Tyranids are in a position where they don't need a big update; if they got one the onyl way to take it would be a major redesign of their asthetics

With the new rumor engine today its looking likely that at least two old tyranids kits might be updated soon.
Lictor and the Red Terror.

Nids haven't received one new thing all 8th and 9th, so seems fair

 dan2026 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly Tyranids have done really well over the years. Yes they've not had anything new in a long time, but what they've got is really great overall. About the only thing people hate are things like gaunts still having split heads when assembling; but otherwise their range has aged well and kept up to date. Even things like chunky big ball and socket arms just work for them as part of their partly insectoid designs and such.

Tyranids are in a position where they don't need a big update; if they got one the onyl way to take it would be a major redesign of their asthetics

With the new rumor engine today its looking likely that at least two old tyranids kits might be updated soon.
Lictor and the Red Terror.

Red Terror - lictor/deathleaper - biovore/pyrovore

The 3 kits that Tyranids need to go fully plastic.

Thereafter they could do with a no-split-head gaunt update; perhaps then adding in things like shriekes and parasite of mortox and other things that were in the army and have been lost.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly Tyranids have done really well over the years. Yes they've not had anything new in a long time, but what they've got is really great overall. About the only thing people hate are things like gaunts still having split heads when assembling; but otherwise their range has aged well and kept up to date. Even things like chunky big ball and socket arms just work for them as part of their partly insectoid designs and such.

Tyranids are in a position where they don't need a big update; if they got one the onyl way to take it would be a major redesign of their asthetics

With the new rumor engine today its looking likely that at least two old tyranids kits might be updated soon.
Lictor and the Red Terror.

Speaking of which....

Craftworld Eldar have never featured in the Rumour Engine.

At all.

Ever.

Not once.

Yeah I know.

Which is weird. Really weird.
It almost leads credence to the idea that maybe the Craftworlds range might be sunsetted completely to make way for something else.

I just don't understand it honestly. I've always considered the Eldar to be one of the pillars of the 40k universe. But GW is seemingly leaving them to rot.

Put it this way. If they don't get a Necron sized update this year. I don't think they ever will.

Well, they are a dying race...

Craftworld was my original army that I still love dearly. I have a large amount of them, but I rarely - if ever - find a reason to buy them off GW as the secondary market is full of used models that just need some paint stripping. At this point I just can't see it being healthy for GW to continue this path of doing nothing as people will just go to ebay to fill their CW needs, bypassing any and all sales on the GW website.

Interesting discussion(s).

If & when GW give CWE the 9th ed Necron treatment, I'll be there wallet in hand. Always wanted to collect a Biel-tan army since I was a kid but can't stomach the ancient models. Until that day, no thanks.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly Tyranids have done really well over the years. Yes they've not had anything new in a long time, but what they've got is really great overall. About the only thing people hate are things like gaunts still having split heads when assembling; but otherwise their range has aged well and kept up to date. Even things like chunky big ball and socket arms just work for them as part of their partly insectoid designs and such.

Tyranids are in a position where they don't need a big update; if they got one the onyl way to take it would be a major redesign of their asthetics

With the new rumor engine today its looking likely that at least two old tyranids kits might be updated soon.
Lictor and the Red Terror.

Speaking of which....

Craftworld Eldar have never featured in the Rumour Engine.

At all.

Ever.

Not once.

Pls no, dont hurt me more than i am


I cant really understand GW plan



But how can they sunset/squat the whole range while they made Jain Zar and bashee a year ago? dosnt make too much sense

If you ask me they will make new units for ynnari and call it a day