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2021/08/29 20:41:57
Subject: 40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
lord_blackfang wrote: Shoutout to the Rockgut Troggoths box, 3 fixed pairs of legs but 12 arms, 9 heads, everything fits with everything else, and each arm comes with its whole half of the shoulders and back, so the musculature even looks natural in all combinations too.
Yes, i was quite genuinely suprised with how great of a kit that is, the only thing that could've made it better is if the legs were in slightly diffrent poses. Otherwise it's ace.
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
2021/08/29 20:42:11
Subject: 40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
So no Kill-Rigz/Hunta-Rigz, Great White Squig/Squigosaur or Painboss. Also no indication if Deffkoptaz or Mega-Armoured Warboss will get a separate release, of whether they are forever locked inside a Combat Patrol with the new mono-pose (and potentially push-fit, given some shots of instructions that leaked) Boyz.
Looking forward to that new Battlewagon price. Let's see if that extra sprue can bring it to AUD$150!
And where are people getting the idea that the rest of the Orks are the week after?
Dudeface wrote: There were a lot of people myself included who warned of the lack of customisation, increased cost etc. and yet people were largely in favour of "old boyz are old, gimme new ones". This is sadly the price to be paid for that.
I've been saying "Be careful what you wish for!" with new Ork Boyz since people first starting calling for them.
I'm sure the usual suspects will be along soon to show us which stage of this table they've reached:
1. "You're crazy! Nothing had changed. They're not mono-pose!" 2. "So what if they are monopose? They're not that posable now, so it's not that big a difference!" 3. "We like it because they're dynamic and the old ones were bad anyway!" 4. "No options and nonposable is actually better for everyone/the game/etc.!" 5. "It's just nostalgia/rose-tinted glasses that you think they were posable/easy to convert!" 6. "You should be thankful there are even options at all!"
Haven't seen anyone get to Stage 6. Yet.
Kanluwen wrote: The Cadian sprue proves literally nothing outside of "a new sprue adds cost".
Who are you replying to with this?
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/08/29 23:04:06
Honestly, still probably gonna get 2 copies of the patrol box. I have plans for conversions on the megaboss. Always love to dick around with the deff dread kit and I love those new deffkoptas.Shame about the loss of shoota options though. Had mine converted for cheap dakka. Probably don't need more boyz... but heck a new kit is fun to work with.
2021/08/29 23:48:26
Subject: Re:40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
I've spent some time assembling the beastsnagga boyz, and while the models look good on their own... Gork's teef is assembling them soul-crushingly boring. They're as monopose as monopose can get: every model can only be assembled in one specific way, and with the model being made out of lots of parts, you spend a lot of time peering at the sprues looking for the right bits on the sprue.
Which is the opposite of what assembling Orks should be like! Putting together Orks is supposed to be fun! You're supposed to be looking at a pile of bits and wondering "so how can I make this mad lad look his maddest?"
Ugh. If the new boyz models are just as monopose, them being limited to the combat patrol might actually be a temporary blessing. Lets Ork players stock up on Boyz while they still can.
Add that to the Squighog Boyz, who don't even have alternate heads.
Oh dear...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/29 23:49:48
H.B.M.C. wrote: Add that to the Squighog Boyz, who don't even have alternate heads.
Well they can't just create a market for third party bits companies, can they!?
Their new tournament rules should be very clear demonstration of where GW's head is at these days: The only hobby in town is the Games Workshop Hobby™.
2021/08/30 01:15:24
Subject: 40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So no Kill-Rigz/Hunta-Rigz, Great White Squig/Squigosaur or Painboss. Also no indication if Deffkoptaz or Mega-Armoured Warboss will get a separate release, of whether they are forever locked inside a Combat Patrol with the new mono-pose (and potentially push-fit, given some shots of instructions that leaked) Boyz.
Looking forward to that new Battlewagon price. Let's see if that extra sprue can bring it to AUD$150!
And where are people getting the idea that the rest of the Orks are the week after?
Dudeface wrote: There were a lot of people myself included who warned of the lack of customisation, increased cost etc. and yet people were largely in favour of "old boyz are old, gimme new ones". This is sadly the price to be paid for that.
I've been saying "Be careful what you wish for!" with new Ork Boyz since people first starting calling for them.
I'm sure the usual suspects will be along soon to show us which stage of this table they've reached:
1. "You're crazy! Nothing had changed. They're not mono-pose!" 2. "So what if they are monopose? They're not that posable now, so it's not that big a difference!" 3. "We like it because they're dynamic and the old ones were bad anyway!" 4. "No options and nonposable is actually better for everyone/the game/etc.!" 5. "It's just nostalgia/rose-tinted glasses that you think they were posable/easy to convert!" 6. "You should be thankful there are even options at all!"
Haven't seen anyone get to Stage 6. Yet.
Dunno, I think whoever designed the sprue is at that point. And specifically _only_ for the big shoota/rokkit swap.
Looking at the combat patrol picture, it looks like it builds exactly 10 slugga/choppa boys and exactly 6 shoota boys, + 2 swappable heavy weapons and the nob options (there seems to be the obvious weapons and heads for him, but only one boss pole).
---
Also you left out an option (which I've sadly seen multiple times at this point):
- "No one can possibly see differences in models on the table anyway!"
Which, if ever true, means the person should give up on miniatures games and go back to Avalon Hill style map and chit games. There isn't any point.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/30 01:28:43
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2021/08/30 01:26:28
Subject: Re:40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
Mark my words though. I'm going to make those damn riders a bit more varied when I get a second batch. If I can do it with the bloodbowl orks I can do it with these lads.
2021/08/30 01:48:24
Subject: 40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
I wonder if the squig hogs would have had more options if they hadn't crammed in the stupid rammasquig. I love that model, but did it really need to come in that set?
The only set I think is a good comparison would be the thunder wolf riders, and they had plenty of options to choose from.
2021/08/30 01:52:31
Subject: 40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
Curiously the smasha squig has the most options. Different head, plate for the squig, a bionic leg and you can choose which weapon he's holding. From my point of view he's the best model in the current release in that you can make a few who aren't identical.
2021/08/30 05:37:13
Subject: Re:40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
I've spent some time assembling the beastsnagga boyz, and while the models look good on their own... Gork's teef is assembling them soul-crushingly boring. They're as monopose as monopose can get: every model can only be assembled in one specific way, and with the model being made out of lots of parts, you spend a lot of time peering at the sprues looking for the right bits on the sprue.
Which is the opposite of what assembling Orks should be like! Putting together Orks is supposed to be fun! You're supposed to be looking at a pile of bits and wondering "so how can I make this mad lad look his maddest?"
Ugh. If the new boyz models are just as monopose, them being limited to the combat patrol might actually be a temporary blessing. Lets Ork players stock up on Boyz while they still can.
Add that to the Squighog Boyz, who don't even have alternate heads.
Oh dear...
Thats actually not completely true, the instructions don't tell you that but multiple arms can actually fit multiple bodys on the boys.
The connections between arm and body is mostly the same on all models the limiting factor is the shoulder plate most of the time. But as long as you are willing to cut a little bit you can actually get quite a few different configurations.
For example here is my instructions where I tried to find which bits fit which body, of course no guarantee all of them fit perfectly and you will have to cut a bit to fit the shoulder plates but it should show they aren't as monopose as they look at first
https://i.imgur.com/aIyQ4Jj.jpg (Also there are double Slugga/Shoota combinations here so if you don't like that be careful, always dry fit first)
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/30 05:44:05
2021/08/30 05:47:57
Subject: Re:40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
Matrindur wrote: Thats actually not completely true... But as long as you are willing to cut a little bit...
So it's completely true then. They are, to quote the other post, "as monopose as monopose can get". To put it another way: If you need to start cutting away at the minis to change their poses, then they are monopose.
I don't have a problem with you trying to convert your monopose Orks to make them look different, but don't try to pretend that "You can convert them!" suddenly means that the base minis, as supplied in box, are not monopose.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/30 05:49:09
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't have a problem with you trying to convert your monopose Orks to make them look different, but don't try to pretend that "You can convert them!" suddenly means that the base minis, as supplied in box, are not monopose.
But it goes so well with "GW's rules are great because you can just house rule the bad parts"
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/30 06:00:21
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2021/08/30 06:59:34
Subject: Re:40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
Matrindur wrote: Thats actually not completely true... But as long as you are willing to cut a little bit...
So it's completely true then. They are, to quote the other post, "as monopose as monopose can get". To put it another way: If you need to start cutting away at the minis to change their poses, then they are monopose.
I don't have a problem with you trying to convert your monopose Orks to make them look different, but don't try to pretend that "You can convert them!" suddenly means that the base minis, as supplied in box, are not monopose.
Your are right with that but I also wasn't as clear as I needed to be here. There are some arms you can switch around without cutting anything so they aren't completely monopose even though the instructions don't tell you that. And if you cut a little bit you can get quite a lot of different combinations. The difference here for me at least is that I don't need to cut the connection between arm and body and greenstuff it so they fit together at all. You would just need to file off some muscle or a part of the shoulder pad so the shoulder pad fits over the arm. Of course if that doesn't count for you thats fine for me.
Also for the heads the only thing you need to cut would be the occasional earring so that shouldn't be asking for more than just cleaning off nubmarks right?
And just to make it clear of course I would like it if they had more options I just wanted so say they aren't as bad as they look at first
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/30 07:12:06
2021/08/30 07:07:58
Subject: Re:40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
Matrindur wrote: Thats actually not completely true... But as long as you are willing to cut a little bit...
So it's completely true then. They are, to quote the other post, "as monopose as monopose can get". To put it another way: If you need to start cutting away at the minis to change their poses, then they are monopose.
I don't have a problem with you trying to convert your monopose Orks to make them look different, but don't try to pretend that "You can convert them!" suddenly means that the base minis, as supplied in box, are not monopose.
Your are right with that but I also wasn't as clear as I needed to be here. There are some arms you can switch around without cutting anything so they aren't completely monopose even though the instructions don't tell you that. And if you cut a little bit you can get quite a lot of different combinations. The difference here for me at least is that I don't need to cut the connection between arm and body and greenstuff it so they fit together at all. You would just need to file off some muscle or a part of the shoulder pad so the shoulder pad fits over the arm. Of course if that doesn't count for you thats fine for me.
Also for the heads the only thing you need to cut would be the occasional earring so that shouldn't be asking for more than just cleaning off nubmarks right?
So, monopose but not too hard to convert? Arms-wise, of course, it seems that anything else is a tad off the table...
2021/08/30 07:22:22
Subject: Re:40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
But all it takes is a saw and maybe green stuff bam, you have some killer variation. That is the hobby that endlessly present on GW's social media and the media of its staff
These are just some of the articles that pop up, and are all pretty great!
Then on Warhammer Podcast, especially, conversions get mentioned every single episode - but you just need to listen to Wade and Peachy wax lyrically on these to know this is central to GW praxis in the studio and what they are suggesting to hobbyists to do.
Similarly, you can also just glance at any hobby stream on their Twitch in which conversions happen and hobbyists' conversions are featured and praised effusively.
Or you can look on Twitter at Warhammer Community or its team (Wade Pryce, Chris Peach, Adam Troke, Nick Bayton, Eddie Eccles, Louise Sugden, Ben Galler, Max Ogden, etc), or look at mini designers like Owen Patten, or follow studio heads like Phil Kelly or Ben Johnson or Stu Black, or look at other GW employees like John French. All them featuring, retweeting and praising conversions.
I think we need to be careful of this kind of complaint - that is GW is anti conversions. I think instead they want people to have out of the box the best looking mini they could have without needing to convert - but they are sure as happy for you to convert too.
2021/08/30 07:44:34
Subject: 40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
revealed preference for removal of multipose miniatures in favour of monopose shows they are leaning towards less conversions, the reasons could be anything from wanting to reduce the ability of 3rd parties making parts for their kits to 3d design just being easier to do monopose as a cost saving exorcise.
is what it is, so many options out there these days for Orks that GW monopose is irrelevant to me.
2021/08/30 08:00:02
Subject: 40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
So, do we have a price on the Ork combat patrol yet? Hoping it’s the same as the rest of them, which would make it a reasonable deal (comparatively speaking).
PetitionersCity wrote: But all it takes is a saw and maybe green stuff bam, you have some killer variation. That is the hobby that endlessly present on GW's social media and the media of its staff
These are just some of the articles that pop up, and are all pretty great!
Then on Warhammer Podcast, especially, conversions get mentioned every single episode - but you just need to listen to Wade and Peachy wax lyrically on these to know this is central to GW praxis in the studio and what they are suggesting to hobbyists to do.
Similarly, you can also just glance at any hobby stream on their Twitch in which conversions happen and hobbyists' conversions are featured and praised effusively.
Or you can look on Twitter at Warhammer Community or its team (Wade Pryce, Chris Peach, Adam Troke, Nick Bayton, Eddie Eccles, Louise Sugden, Ben Galler, Max Ogden, etc), or look at mini designers like Owen Patten, or follow studio heads like Phil Kelly or Ben Johnson or Stu Black, or look at other GW employees like John French. All them featuring, retweeting and praising conversions.
I think we need to be careful of this kind of complaint - that is GW is anti conversions. I think instead they want people to have out of the box the best looking mini they could have without needing to convert - but they are sure as happy for you to convert too.
I don't think anyone is claiming they're anti-conversion, simply that they don't want to have 100 boyz with 10 sets of 10 identical minis.
You can convert them, but if you use 3rd party, you can't attend their events. Likewise, the monopose kits like these new ones are far harder to convert than the older ones given how it goes together.
2021/08/30 09:30:28
Subject: 40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
Almost all of the full Primaris kits are multipose, you can put any arms on any body and mix and match between the kits. SoB are almost the same, though there integrated shoulder plates and the robe sleeves limit combinations a bit. Still, most arms fit most bodies. I don't know how these orks are, but I really dislike how people use 'monopose' to mean 'torso and legs are in the same piece' That's not what it means. Skitarii aren't monopose, Necromunda gangs are not monopose.
Formosa wrote: revealed preference for removal of multipose miniatures in favour of monopose shows they are leaning towards less conversions, the reasons could be anything from wanting to reduce the ability of 3rd parties making parts for their kits to 3d design just being easier to do monopose as a cost saving exorcise.
is what it is, so many options out there these days for Orks that GW monopose is irrelevant to me.
Maybe I'm wrong, but to me the reason is quite obvious. Monopose models look better.
Especially with muscled models, muscles don't lend themselves to be reposed without also resculpting them.
My hope was simply that we had monopose with options. So if the shoulder joints are designed the same, similar to how the Goliath models are done, then you can swap arms, swap heads, etc. Still monopose, but with 10 bodies and arm / head swaps you should be able to produce a horde without clone-syndrome.
Almost all of the full Primaris kits are multipose, you can put any arms on any body and mix and match between the kits. SoB are almost the same, though there integrated shoulder plates and the robe sleeves limit combinations a bit. Still, most arms fit most bodies. I don't know how these orks are, but I really dislike how people use 'monopose' to mean 'torso and legs are in the same piece' That's not what it means. Skitarii aren't monopose, Necromunda gangs are not monopose.
I think we maybe don't have consistent terminology. In my mind, monopose means you don't have infinite adjustability on how you join an arm to a body, but you can have monopose while also having options, which is what I hoped for these Orks.
So there's 2 levels of adjustability, having options on what parts you can use, and having options on how you attach those parts. The latter half is what constitutes "monopose" in my mind, because a specific model built with specific parts will always have only 1 pose.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/30 09:43:02
2021/08/30 09:57:22
Subject: 40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Maybe I'm wrong, but to me the reason is quite obvious. Monopose models look better.
Especially with muscled models, muscles don't lend themselves to be reposed without also resculpting them.
This would be a much stronger argument if GW sculptors displayed any real grasp of muscular anatomy. As it is, most of their 'muscular' human arms look like a mass of tumors.
However, it also applies to cloth (albeit a little less) and GW seems to be better at sculpting that, and monopose in general does look better than a model designed to have simple connection points.
Almost all of the full Primaris kits are multipose, you can put any arms on any body and mix and match between the kits. SoB are almost the same, though there integrated shoulder plates and the robe sleeves limit combinations a bit. Still, most arms fit most bodies. I don't know how these orks are, but I really dislike how people use 'monopose' to mean 'torso and legs are in the same piece' That's not what it means. Skitarii aren't monopose, Necromunda gangs are not monopose.
I mean... that's not really multipose? That's multiple sets of arms for a monopose.
But of course, that's much better than nothing at all , kind of an intermediate point.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/30 10:14:57
2021/08/30 10:38:38
Subject: 40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
Almost all of the full Primaris kits are multipose, you can put any arms on any body and mix and match between the kits. SoB are almost the same, though there integrated shoulder plates and the robe sleeves limit combinations a bit. Still, most arms fit most bodies. I don't know how these orks are, but I really dislike how people use 'monopose' to mean 'torso and legs are in the same piece' That's not what it means. Skitarii aren't monopose, Necromunda gangs are not monopose.
If you can swap bolter to meltagun that's still monopose. Battle sisters are monopose. Same pose, different weapon. Key being it's monoPOSE.
Repentia is dual pose. Rest are mono.
Weapon option multipose makes not. Especially when it's for specific model.
Look at imperial guard commisar. You can give bolt pistol or plasma pistol but its still same POSE. It's monopose. Swappable pistol difference does not make. Pose is still same.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/30 10:40:56
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2021/08/30 10:54:04
Subject: 40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
I mean... that's not really multipose? That's multiple sets of arms for a monopose.
But of course, that's much better than nothing at all , kind of an intermediate point.
So only way to have multipose is to have separate legs? That is absurd definition and something that has just been completely made up on this forum in last couple of years. The position or arms and head affect the pose massively. I've been assembling a lot of primaris minis, and you can get a ton of varied poses, and they tend to look much more natural than with old marines, as the legs and abdomen actually are designed to go together. And they actually have more varied leg poses than the old marines did, who mostly were stuck in the same 'standing knees slightly bent' pose.
If you can swap bolter to meltagun that's still monopose. Battle sisters are monopose. Same pose, different weapon. Key being it's monoPOSE.
Repentia is dual pose. Rest are mono.
Weapon option multipose makes not. Especially when it's for specific model.
Look at imperial guard commisar. You can give bolt pistol or plasma pistol but its still same POSE. It's monopose. Swappable pistol difference does not make. Pose is still same.
Except with SOB you can do much more than that. You can but most arms on most models. You can put Seraphim arms on basic Retributor bodies, you can put Retributor arms on the basic SoB etc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/30 10:58:09
I mean... that's not really multipose? That's multiple sets of arms for a monopose.
But of course, that's much better than nothing at all , kind of an intermediate point.
So only way to have multipose is to have separate legs? That is absurd definition and something that has just been completely made up on this forum in last couple of years. The position or arms and head affect the pose massively. I've been assembling a lot of primaris minis, and you can get a ton of varied poses, and they tend to look much more natural than with old marines, as the legs and abdomen actually are designed to go together. And they actually have more varied leg poses than the old marines did, who mostly were stuck in the same 'standing knees slightly bent' pose.
About as absurd as "you can change the arms, see, it's not monopose at all".
But, as I said, it's better than nothing. One could even say that there's a slider on poseability.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/30 11:06:27
2021/08/30 11:14:03
Subject: 40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
Almost all of the full Primaris kits are multipose, you can put any arms on any body and mix and match between the kits. SoB are almost the same, though there integrated shoulder plates and the robe sleeves limit combinations a bit. Still, most arms fit most bodies. I don't know how these orks are, but I really dislike how people use 'monopose' to mean 'torso and legs are in the same piece' That's not what it means. Skitarii aren't monopose, Necromunda gangs are not monopose.
Amen.
It's a really weird complaint when you consider that the previous Boyz kit (excluding he Nob) had 5 unique pairs of legs and 5 unique bodies to cover 10 models. Not only that, but all the legs are in the same "squatting on the toilet" pose with the only real variation being if the right or left foot is tilted out. All the arms are attached at the same angle with the only freedom being to tilt them up or down one a single axis. There's a much wider range of variety in the new poses. If the new kit still has the option to swap out heads / shoulder pads, or to build multiple arm sets like Bladeguard it will definitely be an improvement.
2021/08/30 12:11:49
Subject: 40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
Just to toss my two cents, i personally like it best when models have a torso-legs piece, and fully interchangeable arms and heads, like the Skitarii. Feels to me like it's the best compromise between having natural looking poses, and not being completly monopose. Bonus points if diffrent kits are compatibile, like with the regular Skitarii, the cavalry and all the drivers on their various vehicles.
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
2021/08/30 12:25:20
Subject: 40K Beast Snaggas - new info on pp7. T5 Boyz.
Whomever suggest I simply save my last big post on this: Thank you. This saves so much time.
And so...
xttz wrote: It's a really weird complaint when you consider that the previous Boyz kit (excluding he Nob) had 5 unique pairs of legs and 5 unique bodies to cover 10 models. Not only that, but all the legs are in the same "squatting on the toilet" pose with the only real variation being if the right or left foot is tilted out. All the arms are attached at the same angle with the only freedom being to tilt them up or down one a single axis. There's a much wider range of variety in the new poses. If the new kit still has the option to swap out heads / shoulder pads, or to build multiple arm sets like Bladeguard it will definitely be an improvement.
You don't get a lot of variation out of a box of Cadians, or a Marine Tactical squad. This is true. You get a few different legs, and a few different arm sets and so on. Much like the current Ork Boyz kit. But what you get are miniatures that blend into one another. They're not in duplicated dynamic heroic poses though, so they don't look weird in multiples. And you could use whatever options were in the box on any model within that box - that's a major point! That's what so many of us have been saying for so long now.
GW's new kits don't do that. They're jigsaw puzzles where models only go together one way, where have very little (if any at all) posability, and their weapon options are fixed (Model X takes only Weapons Y and Z, so if you want Y and Z, you can't have that without either converting them, or getting another box).
