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1. I didn't say anything about the Cursed City models having rules in the Soulblight book *before* the expac released. Quite the opposite, I made a point about how, had things followed the intended release schedule, there would have conceivably been three expacs released for Cursed City *before* the Soulblight Gravelords book dropped.

2. "Thats never been how it worked" is a horrible argument. GW has never been consistent about anything and constantly changes its approach to releases and cross-title tie-ins.

chaos0xomega wrote:
1. I didn't say anything about the Cursed City models having rules in the Soulblight book *before* the expac released. Quite the opposite, I made a point about how, had things followed the intended release schedule, there would have conceivably been three expacs released for Cursed City *before* the Soulblight Gravelords book dropped.

Here's your sticking point. They still wouldn't have been. If the release schedules weren't F'd with delays, the Soulblight book would be out(or at least on preorder) already.

Yeah, it's not clear if any AoS releases here are scrapped CC expansions, but arguments to precedent or timing proving they aren't don't have much validity. There is no precedent, and it's quite easy to see how the timing would work just fine.

Someone noted that a dead giveaway would be anything that was push-fit. A precedent which would work is that BSF kept the push-fit model designs into the expansions, and it would seem likely that so would Cursed City.

yukishiro1 wrote:
For example, just off the top of my head, instead of a tacticool Predator clone, why not an armored pulpit on wheels with a preacher on top who calls down the Emperor's wrath on the enemy, then blasts them to kingdom come with holy hand grenade launchers?

Because it existed for 20 years already? It's called the Exorcist. You'd retread more than GW did, you know...

 Sabotage! wrote:
How lean into the Ecclesiarchy angle a bit and do some Frateris Milita? A bunch of crazy zealots with garbage equipment that are absolutely fanatical (something like the new Cawdor miniatures would be awesome).

Or lean into the association with Ordo Hereticus and do some Inquisitorial Stormtroopers and options for a Hereticus Witch hunter or something.

Ally IG conscripts + priest or tempestus + inquisitor in, use Cawdor or Palatine models, there, problem solved. Was it so hard?

And seeing we had whole edition of SM and CSM armies without any actual SM/CSM because both used their trash troops instead, no thanks.

The only good thing, imo, is the terrain box. UNLESS, it comes without any potential savings and maybe even more expensive than buying everything separately, because hurrr, cardboard, hurrr.

drbored wrote:
In other words, they won't reveal AoS 3.0 yet because it'll cannibalize sales of Broken Realms and Soulblight Gravelords.

Or they'll just say "these books were designed to work with 3.0", even if it's a blatant lie.

Am I the only one who appreciates the SoB Predator? It's like the only vestige of STC continuity we've seen in like a decade.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Am I the only one who appreciates the SoB Predator? It's like the only vestige of STC continuity we've seen in like a decade.

I really like it - might get two

 Platuan4th wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
1. I didn't say anything about the Cursed City models having rules in the Soulblight book *before* the expac released. Quite the opposite, I made a point about how, had things followed the intended release schedule, there would have conceivably been three expacs released for Cursed City *before* the Soulblight Gravelords book dropped.

If the release schedules weren't F'd with delays, the Soulblight book would be out(or at least on preorder) already.

You don't know that - whereas I know for a fact, courtesy of insider contacts, that Cursed City was meant to be out in the September-November 2020 timeframe.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Am I the only one who appreciates the SoB Predator? It's like the only vestige of STC continuity we've seen in like a decade.

Yeah, I like it, will probably get a couple of them once I get around to painting some more Sisters.

 Irbis wrote:
Ally IG conscripts + priest or tempestus + inquisitor in, use Cawdor or Palatine models, there, problem solved. Was it so hard?

Some people don't like 'Counts As', y'know. Would'a thought that obvious, but hey, look who I'm talking to.

 CragHack wrote:
UNLESS, it comes without any potential savings and [is] more expensive ... because ... cardboard.

Oh you know this will be true.

I'm actually on board with most of the new sisters models, although not sure that I will add them. The Castigator is disappointing because it just needed a more outrageous turret, it's too bland. The Exorcist and Immolator both go overboard above the hull, the Castigator didn't. It should also have had options for hvy flamers or MMs as side sponsons.
The nundam suits are OK, but I would like more grimdark (but I can also see why many find them abhorrent). May get a trio just to act as a bodyguard for the main girl if I pick her up.

The minor characters are mostly misses for me, and I'll convert if necessary rather than paying current character prices. My sister amelia is already now a palatine, super easy.

The bodyguard celestants are actually quite decent, so will likely get a box of those.

Not sure if this codex should have been so early in the release schedule though, it was one of the few books that was holding it's own in the 9th environment.

 bullyboy wrote:
I'm actually on board with most of the new sisters models, although not sure that I will add them. The Castigator is disappointing because it just needed a more outrageous turret, it's too bland. The Exorcist and Immolator both go overboard above the hull, the Castigator didn't. It should also have had options for hvy flamers or MMs as side sponsons.
The nundam suits are OK, but I would like more grimdark (but I can also see why many find them abhorrent). May get a trio just to act as a bodyguard for the main girl if I pick her up.

The minor characters are mostly misses for me, and I'll convert if necessary rather than paying current character prices. My sister amelia is already now a palatine, super easy.

The bodyguard celestants are actually quite decent, so will likely get a box of those.

Not sure if this codex should have been so early in the release schedule though, it was one of the few books that was holding it's own in the 9th environment.

The book is early because GW wants to release the next wave of SoB models.

Nothing to do with how old the current book is or how well they are doing in the meta.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I think it's a futile effort to get mad about turning the High Lords of Terra into the Avengers. GW clearly is taking a lot of inspiration from super hero stuff recently, and there is very little chance that GW IPs aren't going to become more and more about super heroes punching other super heroes.

It's been part of GW games forever. Back in WHFB days Emperor Karl Franz and the whole court of Elector Counts all had minis and rules.

Just think of the Imperium as running on D&D rules, you only get to be a High Lord if you're already a 36th level Battle Sister/Priest/Soldier/Scribe so you're a pretty good ass kicker.

Alternately think of the Roman Empire, Prefects like Julius Cesear and Pompei Magnus were running around leading armies, not sitting in offices doing paper work.

Also didn't Guileman purge the High Lords? So you'd expect he'd replace the old guard with folks who are more proactive.

 Overread wrote:
One bonus that the interview for the SoB is that they've clearly built the army up from a one-trick-pony into a diverse army capable of different builds. So chances are if you don't want/like the armoured suits you don't have to take them. You can likely build a functional and viable list without taking them by focusing on other elements.

Fingers crossed it has good internal balance that allows you to build varied army options up letting you go for a style that suits what you want from the army.

I mean, kinda? Shield Celestians aside (as the first attempt at a real anvil unit), everything duplicates the capability of existing units. It's the same problem the necron update had. Most everything is doing something the army already does. They may be slightly more better in certain aspects and interact better with miracle dice, but hybrid gun/melee suit? Got that. (And that was already an upgrade of the existing walker). Shooty tank? More shooty tank. Banner bearer? Other banner bearer. With sidekick because...um. Reasons, I guess?

Now, from an army appearance point of view, yeah, there's more diversity. But from an army capability point of view, it's pretty much a min/max problem. Is the new or old version more better at the same schtick? And that looks like it will have very binary answers once the book is in hand.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
I think it's a futile effort to get mad about turning the High Lords of Terra into the Avengers. GW clearly is taking a lot of inspiration from super hero stuff recently, and there is very little chance that GW IPs aren't going to become more and more about super heroes punching other super heroes.

It's been part of GW games forever. Back in WHFB days Emperor Karl Franz and the whole court of Elector Counts all had minis and rules.

Just think of the Imperium as running on D&D rules, you only get to be a High Lord if you're already a 36th level Battle Sister/Priest/Soldier/Scribe so you're a pretty good ass kicker.

Alternately think of the Roman Empire, Prefects like Julius Cesear and Pompei Magnus were running around leading armies, not sitting in offices doing paper work.

Also didn't Guileman purge the High Lords? So you'd expect he'd replace the old guard with folks who are more proactive.

I think the problem, for me at least, is that a lot of things in 40k are more interesting if they're left "off screen." The High Lords are one of them.

In the context of the Indomitus age, and the Abbess being one of the temporary, rotating positions of the High Lords, it's fungible and somewhat makes sense. But still.

Well, for Black Library I hope they do a reveal of more Carcharodon stuff. I liked the Tithe novels alright but didn't read the last one made with the Chap

 Oguhmek wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Am I the only one who appreciates the SoB Predator? It's like the only vestige of STC continuity we've seen in like a decade.

Yeah, I like it, will probably get a couple of them once I get around to painting some more Sisters.

The sororitas predator is my favourite new warhammer 40k thing in ages, to be honest

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
I think it's a futile effort to get mad about turning the High Lords of Terra into the Avengers. GW clearly is taking a lot of inspiration from super hero stuff recently, and there is very little chance that GW IPs aren't going to become more and more about super heroes punching other super heroes.

It's been part of GW games forever. Back in WHFB days Emperor Karl Franz and the whole court of Elector Counts all had minis and rules.

Just think of the Imperium as running on D&D rules, you only get to be a High Lord if you're already a 36th level Battle Sister/Priest/Soldier/Scribe so you're a pretty good ass kicker.

Alternately think of the Roman Empire, Prefects like Julius Cesear and Pompei Magnus were running around leading armies, not sitting in offices doing paper work.

Good point as were many of the Emperors, Kings, Queens, Pontifs, etc up till what the later 19th century? And of course the Primarchs in 40k, Farseers, Necron Lords, Warmasters all take the field.

Its actually quite strange we have not had models before.

 Irbis wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:
How lean into the Ecclesiarchy angle a bit and do some Frateris Milita? A bunch of crazy zealots with garbage equipment that are absolutely fanatical (something like the new Cawdor miniatures would be awesome).

Or lean into the association with Ordo Hereticus and do some Inquisitorial Stormtroopers and options for a Hereticus Witch hunter or something.

Ally IG conscripts + priest or tempestus + inquisitor in, use Cawdor or Palatine models, there, problem solved. Was it so hard?

And seeing we had whole edition of SM and CSM armies without any actual SM/CSM because both used their trash troops instead, no thanks.

Yep, nothing speaks fanatical zealots like a huge blob of IG conscripts. And why would Inquisitorial Stormtroopers have the same rules as Tempestus? They operate entirely differently in the fluff.

And then there is the whole issue of handcapping yourself by bring allies to build a fluffy army. As well as making armies that are actually based on the fluff and are both interesting visually and to play.

But you know, Space Marines had goofy powered suits, Grey Knights did, why not Sisters too? I mean if you think they are cool than by all means use them, but I like to keep Avatar crossovers out of things I play in 40k universe.

 Irbis wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
For example, just off the top of my head, instead of a tacticool Predator clone, why not an armored pulpit on wheels with a preacher on top who calls down the Emperor's wrath on the enemy, then blasts them to kingdom come with holy hand grenade launchers?

Because it existed for 20 years already? It's called the Exorcist. You'd retread more than GW did, you know...

That's not the same thing at all. The exorcist is an organist that plays inspirational hymns and destroys the enemy with musical missile volleys, not a pulpit with a preacher who calls down divine judgment on the emperor's enemies. To say they are the same is to say that the church organist is the same as the priest, which displays a marked ignorance of religious services. It's also disappointing to see someone who evidently hasn't seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail - I chose the holy hand grenade precisely because that's just the sort of satirical, tongue-in-cheek homage that GW used to love.

But if you had read the rest of the post, you'd see these were explicitly ideas I came up off the top of my head in 30 seconds to illustrate a general theme. You criticizing them is totally and completely besides the point, even if the criticism was accurate.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Am I the only one who appreciates the SoB Predator? It's like the only vestige of STC continuity we've seen in like a decade.

I love it as well. If it weren't for my complete inability to paint models more filigrane than orks, I would start a SoB army just to run some of those.

I think Irbis point is that functionally (or maybe a better word is mechanically) theres no real difference between them, neither one of them is a front-line brawler/main battle tank, they are both effectively artillery pieces.

 Jidmah wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Am I the only one who appreciates the SoB Predator? It's like the only vestige of STC continuity we've seen in like a decade.

I love it as well. If it weren't for my complete inability to paint models more filigrane than orks, I would start a SoB army just to run some of those.

Same, I think its a much better design than the new exorcist or immolator. Their designs are stupidly busy and IMO very silly, they are over the top (which is the norm for 40k), but in a bad way. I loved the old school immolators "ball turret" style, it would have been great if GW had updated that look and made the windows more ornate and emphasized it as a stained glass design, as opposed to making it a *literal* stained glass window. I think GW/40k is at its best at the intersection between "tacticool" and "gothic", as opposed to just being full-on gothic. Likewise, I never really cared much for Exorcist as a mobile pipe-organ. Would have preferred if they went with a more forgeworld-style design approach, there are plenty of ways to gothify/religify that design without making it look silly and keeping it appreciably tacticool.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Am I the only one who appreciates the SoB Predator? It's like the only vestige of STC continuity we've seen in like a decade.

There's nothing wrong with it, it's just by definition unoriginal and derivative, which adds to the general theme in this release. If they had released a bunch of weird gothic "Sister-y" stuff and then one derivative Predator clone with some bling stuck on, I doubt people would be criticizing it. It's more how it's a symbol of the pivot away from the wacky and weird and toward Space Marines But With Different Symbols that is represented in this release generally.

yukishiro1 wrote:
...I chose the holy hand grenade precisely because that's just the sort of satirical, tongue-in-cheek homage that GW used to love. ..

You probably already know this but on the off-chance you don't. Just to reassure you that GW still do love that type of reference. A BT relic from Vigilus Defiant (which is a callback to the 4th Ed? codex):

chaos0xomega wrote:
I think Irbis point is that functionally (or maybe a better word is mechanically) theres no real difference between them, neither one of them is a front-line brawler/main battle tank, they are both effectively artillery pieces.

Why would that be the case? Priest abilities in 40k are universally short-ranged, why would this one be any different? And grenade launchers aren't artillery in this game, they're typically 18-30" range, i.e. prime main battle tank territory. You could totally have a rolling pulpit that charges right into the thickest of the fighting and then blows the crap out of stuff with blessed explosives from close to medium range. That's not remotely how an exorcist functions.

But again, the point isn't the specific mechanics, the point is the flavor. Reading your above post, you don't seem to be a fan of the over-the-top gothic horror aspect of Sisters, so it's understandable you think Tacticool With Bling is cool. And that's fine. Different strokes for different folks. There's just a lot of us who liked Sisters because of that weird wacky gothic element to them, who don't like to see them turned into just marines with boobs and fleur-de-lys.

 Mr Morden wrote:


Good point as were many of the Emperors, Kings, Queens, Pontifs, etc up till what the later 19th century? And of course the Primarchs in 40k, Farseers, Necron Lords, Warmasters all take the field.

Its actually quite strange we have not had models before.

And apparently the late President of Chad...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/20/world/africa/president-chad-killed.html

But back to the game the 40k universe is the sort of place where an assassin/demon/dark eldar/necron might jump out of the shadows of your palace any time so I have no issue with the High Lords being cybered and 'roided up and able to kick an appropriate amount of ass.

Well feth me.
What a start, instant buy.

Feth me!

Some great characters chosen too.
But I need all the Ghosts!