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 vict0988 wrote:
Please stop the white knighting gak, you can no more play GK without PA than you can with the GK psychic discipline ripped out at the back your book, sure, you can just make up your own psychic powers or only use Smite despite having access to more powers, but then you are not playing the real game. The rules of GK are changed in PA, it's not just an optional addition in the same way that Specialist Detachments or the new Rust rules are, it's fundamentally changing the rules of the faction in a non-optional way.

Actually they can. It may be a less desirable fight, but they can still play. I don't know anyone who refuses to play a game against someone just because they don't have their Psychic Awakening. They might suggest using it, because it will improve their army, but it is not a requirement. If you think it is a requirement, please show me where in the rules it requires opponents to refuse such a game.

 Xenomancers wrote:
The biggest question. CSM are going to get some rules in this book to work with belokor. Will this also include 2 wound CSM? Because if it does. This book is going to sell to some desperate CSM players and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

It's just so damn shady for GW. Even by their standards.

By the dark gods... they wouldn’t! I mean I want that update but dear gods! Imagine they release the codex 6 months later XD

macluvin wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The biggest question. CSM are going to get some rules in this book to work with belokor. Will this also include 2 wound CSM? Because if it does. This book is going to sell to some desperate CSM players and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

It's just so damn shady for GW. Even by their standards.

By the dark gods... they wouldn’t! I mean I want that update but dear gods! Imagine they release the codex 6 months later XD

I doubt any CSM stats will be provided we will just be told that you can take units from demons and CSM. It will be a 1-2 pager for this army of renown

mrFickle wrote:

macluvin wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The biggest question. CSM are going to get some rules in this book to work with belokor. Will this also include 2 wound CSM? Because if it does. This book is going to sell to some desperate CSM players and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

It's just so damn shady for GW. Even by their standards.

By the dark gods... they wouldn’t! I mean I want that update but dear gods! Imagine they release the codex 6 months later XD

I doubt any CSM stats will be provided we will just be told that you can take units from demons and CSM. It will be a 1-2 pager for this army of renown

No way of knowing. It is just bad marketing if they don't. Which just goes to show you...GW is just a poorly run company. They can't even be shady correctly. If you want to release a cashgrab...You have to give people a reason to buy it. LOL. This would be the reason.

They actually can't really do that, it would mean you wouldn't be able to run CSM any more without the book - they can't have two sets of warscrolls with different stats and points values. It would mean buying the $60 DLC would be truly required, and even GW probably realizes what a poopstorm that would be.

Well, this campaign book will certainly release a datasheet for Be'lakor, which is currently printed in Codex: Chaos Daemons.

 xeen wrote:
Also, the fact that they are even doing the campaign books before updating all the codex is BS. How many campaign books have the put out since 9th started, like 3? That could have been 3 more codex.

From what I can see on the GW webstore, one released, one announced (War Zone Charadon books 1 & 2).

There have also been two Crusade scenario packs (Beyond the Veil, Plague Purge), but I don't tend to hear people talking about those.

yukishiro1 wrote:
They actually can't really do that, it would mean you wouldn't be able to run CSM any more without the book - they can't have two sets of warscrolls with different stats and points values. It would mean buying the $60 DLC would be truly required, and even GW probably realizes what a poopstorm that would be.

New rules override old ones. That is very simple to do isn't it? All they have to do is include a datasheet with a points value on any updated units. Could do the whole csm codex on a single page with about 30 miutes of work...

The whole idea is forcing people to buy the book. If you cant play CSM without the book CSM players will buy it.

 Xenomancers wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
They actually can't really do that, it would mean you wouldn't be able to run CSM any more without the book - they can't have two sets of warscrolls with different stats and points values. It would mean buying the $60 DLC would be truly required, and even GW probably realizes what a poopstorm that would be.

New rules override old ones. That is very simple to do isn't it? All they have to do is include a datasheet with a points value on any updated units. Could do the whole csm codex on a single page with about 30 miutes of work...

The whole idea is forcing people to buy the book. If you cant play CSM without the book CSM players will buy it.

You can fit. Every infantry datasheet. In the CSM codex. With points. And options. On. One. Page.

Should I buy new reading glasses?

Rihgu wrote:
Well, this campaign book will certainly release a datasheet for Be'lakor, which is currently printed in Codex: Chaos Daemons.

Yeah, but that's a new model. The old model is being discontinued, you can't run the old version any more period once the new one comes out.

I mean yes they could discontinue every datasheet in the CSM codex and replace it with a $60 DLC that isn't even the codex that you now are required to buy if you want to continue to play CSM. But that's the point: not even GW is dumb enough to think that wouldn't generate massive bad will.

They were dumb enough to release all these campaign books that accelerate the codex creep and add minimal depth to the game...

I wonder if the rules for the new gaunts ghosts unit will be in here, I am assuming that those I’ll be a HQ plus a squad and therefore we will get an army of renown index for running a ghosts list.

Unless it’s a precursor to the IG codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Copyright infringement isn't theft; if it was, we wouldn't need a term for copyright infringement, it would just be, well, theft. The fact that we have a different word and a different set of laws for it is incontrovertible evidence that it is not, in fact, theft. That doesn't mean it's ok, but it does mean calling it theft is inaccurate as a matter of law and as a matter of logic.

Theft requires depriving the owner of their property, not just getting access to the property yourself. If you could snap your fingers and make a copy of someone's car, it wouldn't be theft to then drive off in your new copied car.

Indeed use of intellectual property without consent of the copyright owner is theft. Copying music cd’s for example.

The loss can be demonstrated in many ways, loss of control, loss of reputation, loss of revenue.

I don’t believe there is a specific crime called theft but it is an umbrella term for a multitude of crimes that describe different ways to commit theft. Burglary, theft by finding, grand larceny, fraud, copyright infringement and so on.

This is why you should read the terms and conditions before clicking “I have read the terms and conditions”

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
They actually can't really do that, it would mean you wouldn't be able to run CSM any more without the book - they can't have two sets of warscrolls with different stats and points values. It would mean buying the $60 DLC would be truly required, and even GW probably realizes what a poopstorm that would be.

New rules override old ones. That is very simple to do isn't it? All they have to do is include a datasheet with a points value on any updated units. Could do the whole csm codex on a single page with about 30 miutes of work...

The whole idea is forcing people to buy the book. If you cant play CSM without the book CSM players will buy it.

You can fit. Every infantry datasheet. In the CSM codex. With points. And options. On. One. Page.

Should I buy new reading glasses?

Well if they use their current format which wastes a lot of space it will take approximately 3 pages for the space marine codex entries. CSM has a similar but smaller number of units. If it was just an addendum on what changed. 1 page easy. Datasheets take up more space - CSM and Terminators for sure need new datasheets - probably as well for every cult marine /raptors/ havocs / ect. 4 Pages Could get the job done. A bridge to the new codex.

 xeen wrote:
I normally try to stay positive, and not post complaints to much, but putting out a campaign book for two armies without doing the codex first is BS. Also, the fact that they are even doing the campaign books before updating all the codex is BS. How many campaign books have the put out since 9th started, like 3? That could have been 3 more codex. Frankly I don't even care about getting new miniatures at this rate, I just want my CSM/TS to be on par with imperial marines or at least know when that might actually happen.

Also, the book will most likely require Bel' to be in the army to use the mix daemon/csm rules, which is fine it is his little army section, but having an option for generic commanders (who still worship him) and being allowed to use daemon/csm together would be nice.

You're counting mission packs as campaign books. They aren't.

GW has released one campaign book for 9th. They previewed a second yesterday.

As I said before, I too believe it would have been better to release all the codexes first. Once they are all out, campaign books forever- no new editions. After 5-10 years, enough new units have been released via Campaign books that they can print a V2 dex without worrying about a new edition. This was the way forward, and likely the only way to keep me in the game. If they reset the edition, I'm done.

8th was good for me because it brought back two armies and some other old legacies like Zoats, Ambulls and Rogue Traders. I almost didn't bite on 9th, but Crusade was enough of a hook to make me double down. Yes, I love Crusade that much. But a 10th edition isn't going to fly for me; not only would they be blowing up the game to re-invent the wheel for the 10th time. they'd be blowing up all the Crusade content which was my incentive to hang around for 9th.

It's fairly clear that the codices were intended to be out by now. Who knows what screwed things up.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
They actually can't really do that, it would mean you wouldn't be able to run CSM any more without the book - they can't have two sets of warscrolls with different stats and points values. It would mean buying the $60 DLC would be truly required, and even GW probably realizes what a poopstorm that would be.

New rules override old ones. That is very simple to do isn't it? All they have to do is include a datasheet with a points value on any updated units. Could do the whole csm codex on a single page with about 30 miutes of work...

The whole idea is forcing people to buy the book. If you cant play CSM without the book CSM players will buy it.

You can fit. Every infantry datasheet. In the CSM codex. With points. And options. On. One. Page.

Should I buy new reading glasses?

Nah, you just need a multi-story printer and 8'x11' paper (feet, not inches, for anyone who doesn't use our funky measurement shorthand).

mrFickle wrote:


Indeed use of intellectual property without consent of the copyright owner is theft. Copying music cd’s for example.

The loss can be demonstrated in many ways, loss of control, loss of reputation, loss of revenue.

I don’t believe there is a specific crime called theft but it is an umbrella term for a multitude of crimes that describe different ways to commit theft. Burglary, theft by finding, grand larceny, fraud, copyright infringement and so on.

This is why you should read the terms and conditions before clicking “I have read the terms and conditions”

Verifiably, objectively wrong (in the legal systems I am familiar with - I don't know, maybe there is some obscure jurisdiction that defines theft differently than normal). Copyright infringement is not theft, for the reasons I've already gone over: theft requires depriving the owner of the property that is being stolen, and copyright infringement does not do that - if it did, it would be theft instead, and we wouldn't need laws against copyright infringement. If you want to be wrong about this that's your choice, but this is not something that can be reasonably debated. There is an objective answer, just like there is an objective answer to whether 2+2 =4. As a matter of law, copyright infringement is not theft.

I realize this is somewhat off the main topic, so I don't want to bog the thread down with it further - I just brought it up because it really grinds my gears every time I see someone repeat this particular inaccurate claim.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 addnid wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
I don't understand the concept of campaign books in the first place. Their release cycle is already very clogged from Covid and other events and they're shelling out books with likely short-lived content, instead of more codices. By the time I can play again at a GW store in my country I'm sure the campaign books will be deprecated or used in Narrative only or something, it's literally lost money.

I just can't understand the concept of buying a campaign book, which will have a one year life span and cost 25-35 quid. I am amazed GW sell enough of these things. Are the people who buy these things the kind of people who simply can't wait a week to get the rules for free online ? I am not really judging, I also happen to throw money away on silly things, just not on GW books (aside from a tyranid or ork codex here and there over the years)

By the way do americans say "quid" too like brits do (quid is slang for pound right ?) ? yukishiro1 ?

I think britts and yanks both understand that "quid" and "buck" have basically the same meaning - it's makes us feel we are speaking to each other in a more personal way.

From "quid pro quo" and "sawbuck" colloquially and respectively, innit?

Campaigns are a type of narrative gaming, and GW chose to make Crusade their method of narrative gaming in 9th. As such, all campaign books for 9th should be Crusade books. There shouldn't be Crusade campaign books and non-Crusade campaign books.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's fairly clear that the codices were intended to be out by now. Who knows what screwed things up.

That doesn't make this $60 DLC crap any better.

Covid, brexit and shutdowns were what happened.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Covid, brexit and shutdowns were what happened.

And how long can they dine out on those excuses?

Obviously the plan was not to have all the codexes out before these DLC rules started coming out, so I don't see any relevance at all. The plan has clearly been that these books come out at roughly the same time as the codexes the rules correspond to.

mrFickle wrote:
I wonder if the rules for the new gaunts ghosts unit will be in here, I am assuming that those I’ll be a HQ plus a squad and therefore we will get an army of renown index for running a ghosts list.

The Ghosts are a Black Library release, not a "real" 40K release. Also,the Ghosts(at least those we know and love and that are in the squad being released, there potentially may be some sort of Tanith 1st still running around) are dead before M42. The Sabbat Crusade takes place in 755-791.M41, 200+ years before the 13th Black Crusade.

 Platuan4th wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I wonder if the rules for the new gaunts ghosts unit will be in here, I am assuming that those I’ll be a HQ plus a squad and therefore we will get an army of renown index for running a ghosts list.

The Ghosts are a Black Library release, not a "real" 40K release. Also,the Ghosts(at least those we know and love and that are in the squad being released, there potentially may be some sort of Tanith 1st still running around) are dead before M42. The Sabbat Crusade takes place in 755-791.M41, 200+ years before the 13th Black Crusade.

So IG players have been desperate for new models for ages and they finally release some great new models and they aren’t even a codex unit, they are just eye candy, nice

I'll be using them for my traitors, so at least there's that.

Sucks for dedicated guard players, I'm just hopeful we'll see new sculpts in our lifetimes.

mrFickle wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I wonder if the rules for the new gaunts ghosts unit will be in here, I am assuming that those I’ll be a HQ plus a squad and therefore we will get an army of renown index for running a ghosts list.

The Ghosts are a Black Library release, not a "real" 40K release. Also,the Ghosts(at least those we know and love and that are in the squad being released, there potentially may be some sort of Tanith 1st still running around) are dead before M42. The Sabbat Crusade takes place in 755-791.M41, 200+ years before the 13th Black Crusade.

So IG players have been desperate for new models for ages and they finally release some great new models and they aren’t even a codex unit, they are just eye candy, nice

New models are new models. There's nothing special about the couple of Catachans they released last year - except their price tags....
And I assure you I'll have no problem using these Tanith as _______. They will join my existing Tanith. And if they come with their own rules? Bonus! If there's Tanith in the eventual Guard codex? Or even a mix & match regiment system will do as odds are it'll have some stealthy option.

A datasheet for the Tanith was mentioned alongside the LE version of "The Vincula Insurgency" - though I'd be asking where else we'll see it printed.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Covid, brexit and shutdowns were what happened.

And how long can they dine out on those excuses?

That'll depend on production lead times and lingering effects. Vaccine program continuing will help to mitigate the COVID side of things eventually; Brexit is probably more of an issue with exports to Europe than otherwise; and the UK shutdown only started to lift two or three weeks ago.

The bigger question will be whether or not we end up having to go for another lockdown because people are idiots...

 Dysartes wrote:
A datasheet for the Tanith was mentioned alongside the LE version of "The Vincula Insurgency" - though I'd be asking where else we'll see it printed.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Covid, brexit and shutdowns were what happened.

And how long can they dine out on those excuses?

That'll depend on production lead times and lingering effects. Vaccine program continuing will help to mitigate the COVID side of things eventually; Brexit is probably more of an issue with exports to Europe than otherwise; and the UK shutdown only started to lift two or three weeks ago.

The bigger question will be whether or not we end up having to go for another lockdown because people are idiots...

I don’t quite see how covid has affected GW greatly. model sculpting, codex writing, PR can all be done remotely. Only the factory work would be difficult but the rules have always stated that if you can’t work from home then you can go to the office. Unless GW asked its staff not to go to the factory for health reasons, which Id respect.

But that would only create a backlog of physical production and they have been producing plastic so I’m just not convinced that we’d be much further along without the pandemic. Also we’ve all had more money and time to invest in the hobby.

Brexit, well that only affects trade in and out of the EU, so there might have been some delivery delays but as all production is in the UK there nothing about brexit that should have stopped GW achieving anything

I thought the Pariah Nexus supplement released alongside the necrons' codex was a good idea. It included a few optional rules for crusade games, background and some missions. I'll certainly be using all of them when we can have again in a few weeks.

That book didn't include data sheets or formations. However these new supplements are heading back to the psychic awakening MO and I don't want to go there. I'll buy the admech book when it comes out but as an admech, Daemon and Knight player I'm steering clear of these books.

I'm also frankly sick of the compulsion for story line progression. By all means tell me where the hot zones are where I can set a cool campaign but I don't need to know the canon outcome. I'm fighting the battles let me decide what happened.

The Pariah Nexus thing was a good release. All supplemental campaign material should be Crusade format. There shouldn't be a split.