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Those mad lads finally lost their minds... calling Immortals a "Top 5 Biggest Point Changes" when they literally didn't change the base price of a model, and merely discounted its inferior gun option.

Truly big changes...

Doom Scythes are still 200 points. Man, that's a real shame.

Necrons could have used increases on a few things and decreases on some other things. Oh well.

Darsath wrote:
Doom Scythes are still 200 points. Man, that's a real shame.

Mine does work. The new Admech might change my mind if they go first though.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
https://imgur.com/a/fJAXVcx.png

Necrons:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://imgur.com/JniYWws

https://imgur.com/L13AaYr

Point changes:

Catacomb +10
Chronomancer w/ entropic lance +10
Immortals w/ Tesla -2
Doomsday Ark -20
Lokhust Destroyers -5
Lokhust Heavy Destroyers -10

 Virules wrote:
Necrons could have used increases on a few things and decreases on some other things. Oh well.

Catacomb barge +10
Chronomancer staff +10
Free tesla
Doomsday ark -20
Annihilation Barge -5
Lokhust -5
Heavy destroyer -10

I think that covers it. I play Szarekahn so the cheaper LHDs are welcome, but offset by the cronos.

I wish Ctan + plasmancer spam was going to be less of a thing.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Those mad lads finally lost their minds... calling Immortals a "Top 5 Biggest Point Changes" when they literally didn't change the base price of a model, and merely discounted its inferior gun option.

Truly big changes...

Marketing speak got us again.

Although I don't see how tesla is the inferior gun, not with cost equalized.

 Tyran wrote:
Although I don't see how tesla is the inferior gun, not with cost equalized.

Same. I rather enjoy picking up the lucky streaks now and then, too.

C'monnnnn DG leaks!

 Marshal Loss wrote:
C'monnnnn DG leaks!

Same thing I'm waiting for haha.

+5 points on the overlord with tachyon arrow (as if that was necessary)

The reasoning behind that one eludes me, but as far as necrons go the changes although minor seem net positive. I think Lokhust heavy destroyers will see play at that price

Diamecheron nerf seems silly. Yes it's probably a bit undercosted, but nids don't exactly need a nerf bat right now and no codex in sight it was a nice bandaid. Perhaps the other competitive stuff will manage to make up for a 50-75 point hike but I doubt it since everything nids competitive leans into the few efficient units (devil gaunts, hive guard, etc) and I can't see any of those going down. Maybe swarmlord? Maybe?

Necron seems...weird? I feel like ophidians/wraiths/skorpeks/doomstakers/flyers/doomsday arks all probably needed addressing along with the got awful overpriced cryptek arcana.

The Necron changes here are absurdly stupid. There is no reason stuff like Ophydians should still be 35 points. Paying for the Entropic Lance and the CCB going up is also absurd.

This may have made sense before we started seeing the other dexes, but it's painful for no reason at this point.

I do agree that nothing in the codex needed increases that's for sure. TBH part of the problem with the CCB was that it's just so much better than a normal overlord for not much more points. But that's not because the CCB was too good, rather because the overlords are overpriced. Overlords should be better in combat to justify their points IMO, but we know no datasheet change will take place until 10th edition, so it's down to points.

Similar problem with doomsday ark. In fact now with LHDs down in points I'd rather take three of those than one DDA.

 Sasori wrote:
The Necron changes here are absurdly stupid. There is no reason stuff like Ophydians should still be 35 points. Paying for the Entropic Lance and the CCB going up is also absurd.

This may have made sense before we started seeing the other dexes, but it's painful for no reason at this point.

I get where you're coming from, but the Chrono is a solid model and there was no taking the other weapon option. I don't like the CCB going up, but it is a really durable character.

I don't think Ophydians don't need to be cheaper. They need to get used, but I feel like people play armies that are straight forward "push this hard to kill stuff forward and hope the dice don't turn".

Other changes may put context to some of this as will secondaries and how those might open up people to using more units.

It looks like those Necrons changes were written months ago when they were still decent in competitive play.

I don't feel the Necron changes will have any impact in how the army performs either way, so I suppose there's that. To be honest, the points difference has to equate to a decent amount before you really start seeing much of an impact on army performance either way, so I doubt some of these changes (like the Annihilation Barge or CCB) will make any differences in how people build armies. Biggest change is to Lokhust Heavy Destroyers (LHD) because running 3 saves 30 points, but even then, I don't think they're worth running either way.

Quasistellar wrote:
I do agree that nothing in the codex needed increases that's for sure.

Scarabs. Transcendent Ctan. Plasmancers.

 Virules wrote:

Quasistellar wrote:
I do agree that nothing in the codex needed increases that's for sure.

Scarabs.

Not with the new No Prisoners Secondary.

Yeah...for all those tourney winning lists that have transcendent c'tans and plasmancers in them.

Scarabs are very good, but their internal balance is fine (since they compete with pretty much nothing for their role) and they aren't oppressive.

What immortals really need is to be allowed to go up to units of 20 or a gauss cannon variant.

drakerocket wrote:
Yeah...for all those tourney winning lists that have transcendent c'tans and plasmancers in them.

Scarabs are very good, but their internal balance is fine (since they compete with pretty much nothing for their role) and they aren't oppressive.

What immortals really need is to be allowed to go up to units of 20 or a gauss cannon variant.

The current #1 ranked ITC Necron player, who had done very well at RTTs and Majors recently, loves to spam Ctans and Plasmancers.

Has there been a top 5 majors placing for those lists?

I assume you mean Marshall Peterson? That seems a kind of one-off case. Most top 10 necron lists don't feature plasmancers or trancendent c'tans and c'tan spam is definitely not something which has shown itself to be the driving force behind necron lists.

Darsath wrote:
I don't feel the Necron changes will have any impact in how the army performs either way, so I suppose there's that. To be honest, the points difference has to equate to a decent amount before you really start seeing much of an impact on army performance either way, so I doubt some of these changes (like the Annihilation Barge or CCB) will make any differences in how people build armies. Biggest change is to Lokhust Heavy Destroyers (LHD) because running 3 saves 30 points, but even then, I don't think they're worth running either way.

Szarekhan - 3 individual LHDs that basically reroll everything except 2s to hit.

Necrons don't need massive changes. Not even DE needs large across the board changes.

A light touch is best with good mission changes will do better.

 Virules wrote:

drakerocket wrote:
Yeah...for all those tourney winning lists that have transcendent c'tans and plasmancers in them.

Scarabs are very good, but their internal balance is fine (since they compete with pretty much nothing for their role) and they aren't oppressive.

What immortals really need is to be allowed to go up to units of 20 or a gauss cannon variant.

The current #1 ranked ITC Necron player, who had done very well at RTTs and Majors recently, loves to spam Ctans and Plasmancers.

These dumb arguments keep popping up. Just because it might be good or even the best thing in a particular army or just the thing that the best player of an army uses doesn’t mean it needs nerfs.

Call me when Necrons hit >55% winrate and a high tiwp then we’ll talk nerfs.

drakerocket wrote:
Has there been a top 5 majors placing for those lists

What a mindless thing to say.

Why is it a mindless thing to say? Plasmancers rarely appear in top tournament lists, if ever. Same goes for transcendent c'tans. That doesn't mean units a terrible if they do not, but it's not a poor indicator.

If something is busted usually it ends up in top tourney lists.

drakerocket wrote:
Why is it a mindless thing to say? Plasmancers rarely appear in top tournament lists, if ever. Same goes for transcendent c'tans. That doesn't mean units a terrible if they do not, but it's not a poor indicator.

If something is busted usually it ends up in top tourney lists.

Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Thrice warrants a look. It has not happened frequently enough to warrant any kind of concern.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
The Necron changes here are absurdly stupid. There is no reason stuff like Ophydians should still be 35 points. Paying for the Entropic Lance and the CCB going up is also absurd.

This may have made sense before we started seeing the other dexes, but it's painful for no reason at this point.

I get where you're coming from, but the Chrono is a solid model and there was no taking the other weapon option. I don't like the CCB going up, but it is a really durable character.

I don't think Ophydians don't need to be cheaper. They need to get used, but I feel like people play armies that are straight forward "push this hard to kill stuff forward and hope the dice don't turn".

Other changes may put context to some of this as will secondaries and how those might open up people to using more units.

Come on man, this argument is really thin and you know it. Nerfing a weapon option because people don't take the other one is a horrible way to try to balance something. Chronomancers did not need to be nerfed just because they were taken, the other Mancers should have come down in points.

There is no defending the CCB nerf. It was a good choice, but it was by far not an oppressive choice or overpowered in any way. There is no justification for it.

I'd really like to know your reasoning on why you think Ophydians are priced appropriately at 35 points. I have tried playing them multiple times, but they are just poor for their points. the S/T/SV of a4 just kills them and makes them way to expensive. They do slightly more damage than Skorpekhs and Wraiths, but are less durable, and significantly less durable then the latter. Their Niche of deep striking does very little, since the only way to get any bonus to a charge is with Novokh, and even then it's only a 65% with a reroll. They don't even have fly. Compare them to Sanguinary guard, which at 5 PPM cheaper are absolutely a stronger choice in every way, by a significant margin.

Necrons needed some more drops in the Heavy Support section. I'm glad at least LHD got a good drop, though I would have liked the enmitic weapon option to be even cheaper.