Chapter Approved: 2021 Mission Pack and MFM 2021 MkII

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**Sunny Side Up**

Stuff like Lychguard still being cheaper than an Aberrant is ridiculous, doubly so if you can make em ObSec. They needed at least another 10-15 points.

GSC:

https://i.imgur.com/5y9nVi5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Zw6hFxS.jpg

**tneva82**

Aenar wrote:
It looks like those Necrons changes were written months ago when they were still decent in competitive play.

Eh no kidding. Lead times.

**Sunny Side Up**

Repentia down to 14pp
Zephyrim down to 17pp

**tneva82**

Either new book repentia rules nerfed or gw lost their mind

**Sunny Side Up**

Probably. They said Thousand Sons and Grey Knights were supposed to be out before this book, so certainly also Sisters and Orks should've been released before this book as well. Sisters Codex (and Orks) probably would've been a late 2020 Codex without any delays, given the Palatine was first teased in July 2020 (and disappeared after that when things slowed down).

**Bosskelot**

Virules wrote:
drakerocket wrote:
Yeah...for all those tourney winning lists that have transcendent c'tans and plasmancers in them.

Scarabs are very good, but their internal balance is fine (since they compete with pretty much nothing for their role) and they aren't oppressive.

What immortals really need is to be allowed to go up to units of 20 or a gauss cannon variant.

The current #1 ranked ITC Necron player, who had done very well at RTTs and Majors recently, loves to spam Ctans and Plasmancers.

Whoop-di-fething-doo.

That doesn't mean any of those models need increasing.

**ERJAK**

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Repentia down to 14pp
Zephyrim down to 17pp

Say whaaaaaaaaaaaat?!?

**Eldenfirefly**

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Repentia down to 14pp
Zephyrim down to 17pp

What ... Repentia was too expensive before this? Of all the things to bring down in points... lol

**dreadblade**

Any word on Chaos Knights points changes?

**Sunny Side Up**

Admech FW - Unchanged

Custodes FW
Telemon +20
Caladius Grav Tank -20

Tau FW
Hazard Suits -5

Nids
Swarmlord -30
Tervigon -20
Stealers -2
Trygon Prime -15

Nids FW
Dimachaeron +25

GSC
Jackals -2
Purestrains -2

Dark Angels
Talonmaster +15

Harlequins
Solitaire -2

**Ordana**

Sister changes are likely because of the new codex.
Repentia are probably worse in the future.
Could be something like not being Core.

the lack of GSC changes is really something that makes me sad with how bad the army is in 9th's mission structure.

**Rogerio134134**

Wonder where all the CSM/SM leaks are....

**tneva82**

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
Repentia down to 14pp
Zephyrim down to 17pp

What ... Repentia was too expensive before this? Of all the things to bring down in points... lol

Well remember we don't know what rules they are for. New codex points remember.

**EightFoldPath**

AduroT wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote:
https://imgur.com/a/fJAXVcx.png

Necrons:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://imgur.com/JniYWws

https://imgur.com/L13AaYr

Point changes:

Catacomb +10
Chronomancer w/ entropic lance +10
Immortals w/ Tesla -2
Doomsday Ark -20
Lokhust Destroyers -5
Lokhust Heavy Destroyers -10

The other Chronomancer gun is quite clearly inferior, I would have liked to see them drop to 70 points base then the Lance be +10 (or 75 base and the Lance be +5).

They don't seem to have put much effort into making these point changes nuanced or interesting.

Other changes that would have been nice to see, Catacomb up but Overlord/Lord down (again with weapon options actually considered). I think quite a few of the destroyer models could have benefited from mild points drops too.

The problem with Scarabs is GW's hatred of points that aren't multiples of 5, as they cost 15 per model and come in 3s minimum, they would probably want to make them cost 20 rather than 16,17,18 or 19 points.

**Marshal Loss**

Seeing a few comments around the internet saying that DG are unchanged, but no pictures. Hopefully this is confirmed/denied soon

**Aenar**

Whole Tau changes:
Hazard -5
Riptide -1

Nothing else changed.

**Jidmah**

Summary of secondary changes
40k News
Summary from discussion in the 40k discord overnight, no pics shown so can't confirm.

Linebreaker goes to 2pts for one unit allowing partial scoring

Similarly psy ritual is now progressive rather than all or nothing for 3/7/12

Domination changes to hold 3 and more than opponent

Scramblers progressive and 3pts per quarter so max 12

Cut off the head removed

While we stand we fight if units split and one dies only scores 3pts not 5

Teleport homer now gives 2 for doing it in no man's land

Pierce the veil now 3vp per time done

Mental interrogation now 24" but need line of sight (lol)

Assassinate gives +1vp for killing the warlord

Missions apparently identical, even the scouring.

Taken from reddit.

**Asmodai**

Jidmah wrote:
Summary of secondary changes
40k News
Summary from discussion in the 40k discord overnight, no pics shown so can't confirm.

Linebreaker goes to 2pts for one unit allowing partial scoring

Similarly psy ritual is now progressive rather than all or nothing for 3/7/12

Domination changes to hold 3 and more than opponent

Scramblers progressive and 3pts per quarter so max 12

Cut off the head removed

While we stand we fight if units split and one dies only scores 3pts not 5

Teleport homer now gives 2 for doing it in no man's land

Pierce the veil now 3vp per time done

Mental interrogation now 24" but need line of sight (lol)

Assassinate gives +1vp for killing the warlord

Missions apparently identical, even the scouring.

Taken from reddit.

5 minutes with a pen and my Chapter Approved 2020 can become Chapter Approved 2021.

**Marshal Loss**

If that's true, I'm beginning to understand why they didn't send out copies to reviewers.

**Cynista**

Daedalus81 wrote:
I get where you're coming from, but the Chrono is a solid model and there was no taking the other weapon option. I don't like the CCB going up, but it is a really durable character.

If they want to make the other weapon more attractive then make the base model cheaper as well as +10 for the Lance. There's no justification for it and the CCB being durable is the least you expect for what it already costs. A points increase on the only decent HQ's in the book, instead of cutting costs of the rest is a pathetic excuse for balancing.

Virules wrote:
Quasistellar wrote:
I do agree that nothing in the codex needed increases that's for sure.

Scarabs. Transcendent Ctan. Plasmancers.

Lol. Oh, you're serious?

**Yarium**

My main group is deciding to vote with wallets. Store owner already had to commit to bringing them in, but we want him to get annoyed at GW that their product sucked and so didn’t sell. We’re telling the owner that we’ll spend at least an equal amount on some new plastic to make it up to him, but GW should be sent a message on this.

**Daedalus81**

Sasori wrote:
Come on man, this argument is really thin and you know it. Nerfing a weapon option because people don't take the other one is a horrible way to try to balance something. Chronomancers did not need to be nerfed just because they were taken, the other Mancers should have come down in points.

There is no defending the CCB nerf. It was a good choice, but it was by far not an oppressive choice or overpowered in any way. There is no justification for it.

I'd really like to know your reasoning on why you think Ophydians are priced appropriately at 35 points. I have tried playing them multiple times, but they are just poor for their points. the S/T/SV of a4 just kills them and makes them way to expensive. They do slightly more damage than Skorpekhs and Wraiths, but are less durable, and significantly less durable then the latter. Their Niche of deep striking does very little, since the only way to get any bonus to a charge is with Novokh, and even then it's only a 65% with a reroll. They don't even have fly. Compare them to Sanguinary guard, which at 5 PPM cheaper are absolutely a stronger choice in every way, by a significant margin.

Necrons needed some more drops in the Heavy Support section. I'm glad at least LHD got a good drop, though I would have liked the enmitic weapon option to be even cheaper.

The CCB and Chrono nerf is fairly inconsequential unless you're spamming chronos and warriors/scarabs, which seems like the angle they want to discourage.

Ophydians suffer from the 'drop and charge syndrome'. They're literally almost jump pack units at M10. If they deepstrike out of sight and don't charge for a turn that isn't a loss. They can move through buildings, too.

SG are W2, but a much better save so a wash, I guess? But then consider something like a Disintegrator hitting each unit - the outcome is very different.

SG get 3/4 S5 AP3 D2. Ophydians get 4 S4 AP4 D2 ( one guy with 3 S6 AP4 D3 that explodes on 6s) and 2 S4 AP1 D1, reroll their own 1s to hit, they have a -1 to be hit in melee like SG, reanimate ( unlikely ), and heal.

They could get away with lowering the price a bit, but their current cost isn't obscene.

3 Ophydiands kill 5.5 marines. 3 SG kill 4.4 - 5 if you add in the bolt guns.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
Either new book repentia rules nerfed or gw lost their mind

I'm betting toned down. They're pretty spicy right now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asmodai wrote:
5 minutes with a pen and my Chapter Approved 2020 can become Chapter Approved 2021.

That's pretty much been the case the whole time. I buy the book, because it's convenient to have the wording handy.

**Aenar**

Yarium wrote:
My main group is deciding to vote with wallets. Store owner already had to commit to bringing them in, but we want him to get annoyed at GW that their product sucked and so didn’t sell. We’re telling the owner that we’ll spend at least an equal amount on some new plastic to make it up to him, but GW should be sent a message on this.

I wouldn't mind spending this amount of money on a decent update to competitive 40K, but this is clearly not enough.
It's a joke of an update, no wonder they've sent no review copies out as it would've been negatively reviewed even by the staunchest GW defenders.

**Bosskelot**

The CCB and Chrono nerf is fairly inconsequential unless you're spamming chronos and warriors/scarabs, which seems like the angle they want to discourage.

If they want to discourage it they shouldn't have written the Codex so that it heavily revolves around that style of play.

It's like their approach to Cultists and CSM throughout 8th and into 9th. Just brute forcing nerfs on viable units won't encourage people to try other styles. They'll still keep playing the only viable option and if it becomes too much they'll just stop playing the army.

It's not how you design or balance an ongoing game.

**tneva82**

Yarium wrote:
My main group is deciding to vote with wallets. Store owner already had to commit to bringing them in, but we want him to get annoyed at GW that their product sucked and so didn’t sell. We’re telling the owner that we’ll spend at least an equal amount on some new plastic to make it up to him, but GW should be sent a message on this.

Fair enough. You are　locking yourself out of tournaments for a year but if tournaments aren't issue.

**Daedalus81**

Aenar wrote:
Yarium wrote:
My main group is deciding to vote with wallets. Store owner already had to commit to bringing them in, but we want him to get annoyed at GW that their product sucked and so didn’t sell. We’re telling the owner that we’ll spend at least an equal amount on some new plastic to make it up to him, but GW should be sent a message on this.

I wouldn't mind spending this amount of money on a decent update to competitive 40K, but this is clearly not enough.
It's a joke of an update, no wonder they've sent no review copies out as it would've been negatively reviewed even by the staunchest GW defenders.

What would be "enough"? I would have liked to have seen tweaks to faction secondaries, but those can be done in FAQ.

**Quasistellar**

I mean if all they updated was the secondaries, and even then not by much, it's pretty hard to justify paying what they're asking for these books. At least 8th edition chapter approved tried to put in extra fun stuff to entice you.

Chapter approved is something that should be included for free with the app subscription.

**Daedalus81**

Bosskelot wrote:
The CCB and Chrono nerf is fairly inconsequential unless you're spamming chronos and warriors/scarabs, which seems like the angle they want to discourage.

If they want to discourage it they shouldn't have written the Codex so that it heavily revolves around that style of play.

It's like their approach to Cultists and CSM throughout 8th and into 9th. Just brute forcing nerfs on viable units won't encourage people to try other styles. They'll still keep playing the only viable option and if it becomes too much they'll just stop playing the army.

It's not how you design or balance an ongoing game.

In general I don't disagree, but I also don't think it is the only viable angle for Necrons at all. It is certainly the most straightforward and honestly running multiple blobs is a trap in my eyes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Quasistellar wrote:
Chapter approved is something that should be included for free with the app subscription.

I agree. Though I still like to have a hard copy, because I'm an old fart now, I guess.

**bullyboy**

Those point changes...what a joke, for most it's a case of why bother? I mean, how do you look at a Riptide and go "Mmm, it's a bit much innit, but it'll really hit the sweet spot if we drop it by 1 point".
GW swinging hard and missing just recently...Fallen update, did not buy on principal, now this. Nope. As many others said, pen to paper will be enough.

**Ravajaxe**

People, remember that we have been given a free downloadable update at the begginning of the year. Significant point changes here or there have already been done, so there should not be high expectations there, especially considering the covid-19 lockdown disruption to tournaments, and thus data. What would you have said about the content, if there have been no munitorum field manual 2021 mark 1 ? I know 9th edition is not in a very good shape. But so much salt ?

The changes to the missions (secondaries) seem rather important. This is the part we should focus on.