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 Blackie wrote:

Karol wrote:


The only termintors that have 3W are those from the marine codex. The chaos, 1ksons and GK one do not have 3W.

Those have psychic powers though. At worst they deal mortal wounds for free, in addition to any other things that regular termies do.

And sooner or later they'll get their 3rd wound as well.

Well those will get 3rd wound as well sooner or later. Meganobz will get T6 and probably other changes as well.

Compare now to now, not now to future ;-)

1. DG terminators are 3W as well, and all other terminators will have that many as well. This has been confirmed by GW.

Where did I say that DG termis had 3W? I said that csm, 1ksons and GK didn't. And the will have soon matters when someone says it today and it happens tomorrow. The edition is almost a year now, and only GW knows where GK or 1ksons will be out. Because they sure as hell aren't coming out before orcs that is for sure.

2. He is comparing MANz to terminators because they are literally ork terminators and always have been. They even are in fluff, both marines and orks have acknowledged them as such in-universe.

But they are not used the same way. If a marine army takes termintors, it has to build its force around them, because in general, there are no cheap troops to fill in the rest of the army. When a DG player runs his army, the terminators are a huge chunk of both the points and the strategy of how a DG army works. An ork player can just splurg a unit of meganobs with minor impact on how the army works. On top of it all, unlike some armies, the mentioned by me GK or DG, orks do not NEED to run meganobz. So their efficiency does not matter in the end. If mega nobz gets better is is just the extra on top of the real important stuff in orks lists. If GK termintors are worse, then regular termintors, then this is a corner stone unit of a GK list being worse, for a year of an edition, and there are no signs of being +1W making much impact on how efficient armies are. DA have super termintors, with extra wounds and superhuman psychology always on. They are not even the best marine army right now. And marines in general get worse with each non marine codex coming out.

3. They see a lot of play in ork lists, both in competitive lists and less competitive archetypes because they are really good at flipping and holding objectives. They either tellyport in or ride a battlewagon and can have objective secured.

yes as an extra. But the orks army can be build without them. Try build an efficient DG or GK lists without termintors.

4. CORE matters little to nothing to orks because we don't have a lot of auras, and those which we have are usually locked into INFANTRY anyways.

Yes tell me about all those auras I get to enjoy with my core terminators. I wish to hear more about them.

5. Not even sure what you are trying to say here? MANz shouldn't get +1T because boy are better because DG are running poxwalkers instead of plague marines? In any case, PM still are decent, just not on a tournament meta level, and people are taking poxwalkers so they have more points for terminators.

No I am saying that orks don't have to run meganobz, unlike other armies that do. And historically any buff to cheap units were a lot more impactful for them, then the buffs to elite stuff. Elite stuff has to stack 3-4 extra rules on top of 2 other rules to even start working. While a blanket now you wound me on +5, on practically everything, is a huge and subsential buff to an army. Just look at marines, they have two wounds, and those auras everyone is so up in arms about, where are the wins though, where are the +60% win rates?

6. Weapons that are good at killing boyz suck at killing MANz and vice versa. You kill MANz with anti-tank weapons because unlike your paladins, they usually don't have an invulnerable save any better than 6++. And no, they usually aren't protect by a KFF.

Does an army of orks auto lose if it gets its unit of meganobz destroyed, the way a GK army does if it loses its paladins turn 1-2?

7. The notion that orks auto-win when you don't wipe all their boyz by turn 2 is hilarious.

VS which army?

8. The armies with the best terminators (DG and DA) both have winrates better or equal to orks, depending on which data pool you look at.

So the armies with better and improved rules, and little to no chance of getting new rules any time soon, are as good as orks played out of an old codex, with unupdated rules. Got it. We call this a injured & drunk event victory at my school. Unless the orks get a ton of nerfs and no improvments in their new codex, one should expect that they will get better then those armies after getting their codex.

9. Orks lose 67% of their games against drukhari, which matches my personal experience - unless you have hot dice on the right targets they just blend everything.

Which is still better then marines can do. So what are orks suppose to be after the codex same win rates vs everything as they before the codex, and 50/50 win rates against the best army in the game right now? How does this make the game fun for anyone who doesn't play orks?

Uhm, I don't know how to tell you... they already do?

check the avarge model cost with a heavy weapon and hammer in each squad.

Honestly, at this point I am wishing that GW totally bombs the GK codex and makes it horribly bad, just as a payback for all the vitriol and bad faith arguments you keep throwing at players of other armies.

As comparing to what DE players claiming their new rules being "okey", or all the other faction player telling GK players to "learn to play" and just buy a castellan and some IG to have a 40% win rate in 8th ed? All 8th tought me about the game, is that care for the state of other people fun, specially those playing armies you don't play, is a foolish thing to do, because they sure as hell don't care about your fun, that is sure.

I suggest trying to read you own codex before making a fool out of yourself.

I stopped reading half way through it because there was so much wrong in it, not to mention that you arguing against your very own arguments from your last posts. That's not even moving goalpost, that's ripping out one goalpost and trying to break the other with it.

Seriously, don't try to argue about a game you neither understand nor play.

Well we are just going to have to wait and see after the codex is out, and how the rules shape up.

Karol wrote:
As comparing to what DE players claiming their new rules being "okey", or all the other faction player telling GK players to "learn to play" and just buy a castellan and some IG to have a 40% win rate in 8th ed? All 8th tought me about the game, is that care for the state of other people fun, specially those playing armies you don't play, is a foolish thing to do, because they sure as hell don't care about your fun, that is sure.

So you're arguing solely in bad faith and should be ignored, got it.

Yes tell me about all those auras I get to enjoy with my core terminators. I wish to hear more about them.

Considering you get better auras and don't need to be Core to enjoy them right now, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Kaldor Draigo lets every unit within 6" re-roll failed hits.
Chapter Master picks 1 CORE unit within 6" to benefit from that.

Karol wrote:

1. DG terminators are 3W as well, and all other terminators will have that many as well. This has been confirmed by GW.

Where did I say that DG termis had 3W? I said that csm, 1ksons and GK didn't. And the will have soon matters when someone says it today and it happens tomorrow. The edition is almost a year now, and only GW knows where GK or 1ksons will be out. Because they sure as hell aren't coming out before orcs that is for sure.

OMG! Ork Meganobz will be slightly better than GK, CSM and 1ksons Terminators for a bit until those factions get their codexs? OMG! how unfair is that? Oh wait...its not.

Karol wrote:

2. He is comparing MANz to terminators because they are literally ork terminators and always have been. They even are in fluff, both marines and orks have acknowledged them as such in-universe.

But they are not used the same way. If a marine army takes termintors, it has to build its force around them, because in general, there are no cheap troops to fill in the rest of the army. When a DG player runs his army, the terminators are a huge chunk of both the points and the strategy of how a DG army works. An ork player can just splurg a unit of meganobs with minor impact on how the army works. On top of it all, unlike some armies, the mentioned by me GK or DG, orks do not NEED to run meganobz. So their efficiency does not matter in the end. If mega nobz gets better is is just the extra on top of the real important stuff in orks lists. If GK termintors are worse, then regular termintors, then this is a corner stone unit of a GK list being worse, for a year of an edition, and there are no signs of being +1W making much impact on how efficient armies are. DA have super termintors, with extra wounds and superhuman psychology always on. They are not even the best marine army right now. And marines in general get worse with each non marine codex coming out.

There is a lot to break down here so bear with me. As we just discussed, Marine Terminators and Ork meganobz are currently THE SAME PRICE. The Terminator is better in terms of durability AND ranged firepower but loses to Meganobz in CC because Meganobz are +1 strength and +1 attack base. So when you say the Marine player has to build his entire list around Terminators and the Ork doesn't...you are wrong. And on the topic of "Cheap" troops. This notion that Ork troops are cheap is just flat out wrong. Orkz can take 50pts of Grots which die when looked at funny or 80pts of Orkz which die when looked at funny. In reality, when an Ork player takes Troops, he takes 30 boyz or 240pts, and usually he takes 2-3 mobz of that size so you are talking about 480-720pts of Ork boyz. That isn't what I would call "Cheap" In comparison, most SM competitive lists feature 15 SM troops between 19-20ppm each so you are talking at most 300pts, or less than half of what an Ork player takes. And to quickly poke a hole in that DA not being great argument, they are great, the problem is that EVERYONE IN THE GAME is building lists to destroy Marines. That has changed a bit since DE came out, but its still very much a popular choice. When I build my tournament lists I focus on the ability to kill T4 and T5 multi wound models with a 3+ save, want to know why? Because every game is a 30-40% chance to play against a Marine, not including Chaos, GK, Custodes etc. Add in those and over 50% of my matchups will be against power armor of one flavor or another.

Karol wrote:

3. They see a lot of play in ork lists, both in competitive lists and less competitive archetypes because they are really good at flipping and holding objectives. They either tellyport in or ride a battlewagon and can have objective secured.

yes as an extra. But the orks army can be build without them. Try build an efficient DG or GK lists without termintors.

DG can and do build lists without them. They recently went through a small meta shift of bringing those little vehicles with a ton of dakka, Jidmah can probably tell you more since he actually plays DG as well as Orkz. As far as GK...bud, you haven't gotten a codex yet, you are complaining that Ork Meganobz with their 9th edition codex will get better than your 8th edition GK terminators. Give it a bit, while I don't like waiting for decent rules, Ork players went from 5th edition until 8th without a usable updated codex. (no codex in 5th or 6th and the 7th was the most phoned in POS codex of the edition). On top of that...its GK, You have 33 unit entries, 11 of which are HQs, I would say they are in desperate need of being fleshed out, but they are just yet another color of SM, give them access to Primaris and suddenly your army list would more than double in size...just from adding Primaris LTs (this is hyperbole...also known as a joke)

Karol wrote:

4. CORE matters little to nothing to orks because we don't have a lot of auras, and those which we have are usually locked into INFANTRY anyways.

Yes tell me about all those auras I get to enjoy with my core terminators. I wish to hear more about them.

You haven't gotten a codex yet...for the 5th time...you are not yet subject to "Core" rules as far as Auras go, and the fact that GK can take Terminators as troops means they will almost assuredly get Core. As someone else already mentioned, this lack of rules atm actually benefits you since Draigo is an even bigger buff/beat stick.

Karol wrote:

5. Not even sure what you are trying to say here? MANz shouldn't get +1T because boy are better because DG are running poxwalkers instead of plague marines? In any case, PM still are decent, just not on a tournament meta level, and people are taking poxwalkers so they have more points for terminators.

No I am saying that orks don't have to run meganobz, unlike other armies that do. And historically any buff to cheap units were a lot more impactful for them, then the buffs to elite stuff. Elite stuff has to stack 3-4 extra rules on top of 2 other rules to even start working. While a blanket now you wound me on +5, on practically everything, is a huge and subsential buff to an army. Just look at marines, they have two wounds, and those auras everyone is so up in arms about, where are the wins though, where are the +60% win rates?

SOME ARMIES HAVE TO TAKE TERMINATORS! See above for rebuttals. You are correct though that generally speaking, buffing a cheap unit has a bigger impact than giving a minor buff to an expensive unit. I mean hell, look at the Stompa, they gave it a 50pt price reduction (I think? its such a POS i never use one) and it had no impact whatsoever, on the other hand, GW increased Ork boyz points by 2ppm, not a big deal...except in my horde list where I take 120-150 of them, so that minor nerf cost me anywhere from 240 to 300pts. Cheap units getting buffs are also just as impacted by nerfs hence boyz being god awful at anything except existing (30 boyz W/shootas, shooting kill less than 2 Marines. in CC W/choppas they kill 6). In regards to the blanket 5+ to wound..I mean, you are exagerating but I get it, you are upset you will actually have to use tactics and skill to remove boyz as opposed to just looking at them and watching as they die in droves, I know, it ruins the fantasy for you. As far as Win/loss rates...I've debunked this 100 times with you, maybe the 101st time it will stick. Dark Eldar at the moment since the start of the year have a W/L rate of 31.43%, Since April its actually gone down to 30% Its almost like W/L ratio is a useless stat and shouldn't be used to judge whether a faction can/does perform well at the top tables. So you constantly harping on Marines not having a good W/L ratio is about as meaningful as screaming at the wind that its cold outside.

Karol wrote:

6. Weapons that are good at killing boyz suck at killing MANz and vice versa. You kill MANz with anti-tank weapons because unlike your paladins, they usually don't have an invulnerable save any better than 6++. And no, they usually aren't protect by a KFF.

Does an army of orks auto lose if it gets its unit of meganobz destroyed, the way a GK army does if it loses its paladins turn 1-2?

So..just to be clear here, your argument is that Ork players DONT auto-lose if their opponent kills their 120pt unit of Meganonbz, but the Grey Knight player DOES lose automatically if his opponent is able to kill his 150pt Paladin unit. Seems like your army sucks if it cant lose 150pts and have a chance of winning...almost like GW pushed out a new faction without any follow through since its just yet another flavor of Space Marines. I'm joking here, but dude, you are complaining that your army is currently a 1 trick pony and if your opponent beats your trick you lose. Welcome to 7th edition orkz. Heck, Nids had the same problem with their flyrant spam, if you had the ability to beat that 1 trick it was GG. Same advice as before, wait for your codex and hope they give GK access to the HUNDRED or so SM data sheets so you can flesh out your army with more than 2 units.

Karol wrote:

7. The notion that orks auto-win when you don't wipe all their boyz by turn 2 is hilarious.

VS which army?

All? If your metric for winning is being able to kill 120 boyz in 2 turns than the metric stinks. I've played more tournaments than I can remember and since I am not world renowned in the 40k universe like Nick Nanavati I clearly haven't won them all, and guess what? I've lost a lot of games where I had boyz left on the board as late as turn 5. This is a bad argument.

Karol wrote:

8. The armies with the best terminators (DG and DA) both have winrates better or equal to orks, depending on which data pool you look at.

So the armies with better and improved rules, and little to no chance of getting new rules any time soon, are as good as orks played out of an old codex, with unupdated rules. Got it. We call this a injured & drunk event victory at my school. Unless the orks get a ton of nerfs and no improvments in their new codex, one should expect that they will get better then those armies after getting their codex.

W/L rate is useless DA have 10 top 4 placings since March, DG have 16. Orkz have 9, and most of those are from counter-meta skew lists. "Oh no, you are double tapping Melta into my boyz...sad day"

Karol wrote:

9. Orks lose 67% of their games against drukhari, which matches my personal experience - unless you have hot dice on the right targets they just blend everything.

Which is still better then marines can do. So what are orks suppose to be after the codex same win rates vs everything as they before the codex, and 50/50 win rates against the best army in the game right now? How does this make the game fun for anyone who doesn't play orks?

W/L rate is a useless stat. In fact, its more useless than +- in Hockey.

Bob the town moron goes to a tournament with a DE army he bought online, he barely read the codex and has to check the rule book every 12 seconds, Bob goes 0 and 5 at a GT. Guess what, Bob just caused the Dark Eldar to have a bad W/L rate, does that mean DE are bad? Because yet again, Since their new codex dropped DE have a 30%ish W/L rate, but they have been sweeping the top tables.

Karol wrote:

Uhm, I don't know how to tell you... they already do?

check the avarge model cost with a heavy weapon and hammer in each squad.

Ah, see this is called "moving the goal posts" where you make a statement, its rebutted with solid provable facts so you than change the metric by which you wish to measure the argument. So i'll see your "heavy weapon and hammer" (Assault Cannon and Hammer = 215pts for 5 Terminators) and raise you Kombi-Rokkitz for everyone Hooray, my meganobz are now more expensive. Luckily I found where you moved the goal posts to, it was filed under Logical fallacy.

Karol wrote:

Honestly, at this point I am wishing that GW totally bombs the GK codex and makes it horribly bad, just as a payback for all the vitriol and bad faith arguments you keep throwing at players of other armies.

As comparing to what DE players claiming their new rules being "okey", or all the other faction player telling GK players to "learn to play" and just buy a castellan and some IG to have a 40% win rate in 8th ed? All 8th tought me about the game, is that care for the state of other people fun, specially those playing armies you don't play, is a foolish thing to do, because they sure as hell don't care about your fun, that is sure.

Spoken like someone who enjoys making bad faith, illogical arguments and than doubles down by moving the goal posts frequently. I won't be as extreme as Jidmah here, I don't wish for GK to have their own version of 7th Edition Orkz, but you argue a lot with no intention of finding a logical solution, its always BUFF MY ARMY AND NERF EVERYONE ELSES!!!!!!. Its a fairly obvious trend. There is nothing wrong with talking about buffing your own army up to the current power level, I do that all the time, but you go well and truly beyond that, you talk about everyone elses fun, bud, you are asking for Orkz to be garbage tier so you can fulfil your bolter fantasy of slaying hundreds of orkz.

Wait is he actually arguing meganobz are better than terminators? bruh...


Termis have a 5++, better ranged options, better melee options, better movement speed and inbuilt deep strike lmfao

To my knowledge for a long time Meganobs were more of a sidegrade than an upgrade to termies. You got an extra attack and wound but the termie got an invul, better shooting and the inbuilt deepstrike, but back in the day couldn't sweeping advance.

Quasistellar wrote:
I was pretty sure before, but now I'm almost positive they'll be 8 points after having seen kabalite warriors and skitarii.

I think this is the best guess. I'm hoping Skitarii go back up to 9 points in the next balance pass. They're far too efficient for 8.

I think you all are ignoring the real questions.

Will KFF continue to exist as it does? It's likely that Big mech with KFF will be removed from the game as it doesn't have a model.

Will unstoppable green tide remain, what about get stuck in? I'm sure they'll get some new buff strategems, but none as plainly powerful as those.

While I can see the simple Stat change making a big difference, it doesn't tell the whole story. Is the question how much would you pay for 1 ap and 1T now? or guess what it should be with in a totally new codex?

Oh, and don't forget to account for the inevitable power creep.

 footfoe wrote:
I think you all are ignoring the real questions.

Will KFF continue to exist as it does? It's likely that Big mech with KFF will be removed from the game as it doesn't have a model.

Will unstoppable green tide remain, what about get stuck in? I'm sure they'll get some new buff strategems, but none as plainly powerful as those.

While I can see the simple Stat change making a big difference, it doesn't tell the whole story. Is the question how much would you pay for 1 ap and 1T now? or guess what it should be with in a totally new codex?

Oh, and don't forget to account for the inevitable power creep.

big mek with kff is still part of the meganob box

people WAY overvalue the kff though it is not a true 5++ only for those models if the whole unit is within the range and only vs shooting. I see people claiming that orks always get things in them but I have been playing since 4th edition and while it used to be where one model in the unit had to be in range not being whole unit it basically means 1-2 small units can squeeze in maybe with a boys squad. in many cases the models saved vs the points cost of the kff mek isn't really worth it.

As for unstoppable green tide it may or may not be there. it has been for a while as a narrative game element. As a game element for scenarios it cna be fun liek space marines having to hold down a space port when innumerable orks are making their way towards it to gather resources before escaping. It was odd to be in competitive play but Other armies do have things that can restore units like tervigons (which are admittedly also terrible). I think there may be a place for unstoppable green tide to stay but I would argue they should walk in from a board edge (mayeb even just the ork player board edge) and not deep strike in.

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Wait is he actually arguing meganobz are better than terminators? bruh...


Termis have a 5++, better ranged options, better melee options, better movement speed and inbuilt deep strike lmfao

Yes, yes he did. The excuse is that some factions haven't gotten their 3rd wound yet...specifically his faction, Grey Knights. I've honestly never liked Meganobz as a competitive unit, I own a dozen or so of them but only because the model itself looks so damn good. Durability wise it's not even a contest, and Dakkawise its not even a contest, the only place Meganobz outshine Terminators is in basic close combat, and even then its a stretch because that durability difference is critical.

Depends on whether Orks are meant to compete with admech and drukhari or not.

SemperMortis wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:


i would still say the kff gives a 5++ but that the mek chooses what unit gets it rather than "all units wholy within 9 inches" same rules as now for when they are in a vehicle. so rather than 3+ units all protected and bunched up you just kind of attach them to a unit you want protected and move with it.

Than the big mek should come with a 20pt price reduction because that is about the only purpose of the damn thing especially after they nerfed the SAG into the dirt.

Even if was that cheap it still would be a rare choice to see on the board since its only purpose is to buff a single unit with a mediocre save.

 Xenomancers wrote:
There is a good chance that an ork list is going to be forced to take a warboss. Much like a necron list is forced to take a noble lord.

Like OMG...I have to take a warboss on bike! The horor!

"forced", just did fairly well in a tournament without one, wouldn't have helped me if I had one...so no, not really. But, even assuming you have to take one, how would that justify increasing the cost of boys to that of the aforementioned over priced unit "Genestealers"?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
There are plenty of examples where a Waaagh! is lead by a big mek instead of a warboss.
We also have the wartrike as official leader of speedwaaaghs.

In the 5th edition codex you needed your warboss to be alive to be able to call an army-wide, once per game Waaagh! that allowed *all* ork infantry to advance and charge. I'd love to see that coming back instead of him having an aura.

Also, I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. The fact that they nerfed WAAAGH like that was annoying to say the least.

They should just evolve Waaagh! into something more like Orruk Warclans Big Waaagh! A scalling thing that finally errupts, and also effects more things than just close combat units. Boyz are fine at 8ppm with these changes they are getting, I would not pay anywhere close to 10ppm when Dark Eldar and Admech would have cheaper, better troops. I dont value toughness 5 that much and the AP1 is cute on Choppas but some of us run Shootas....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

I hope to god this doesn't happen. Whats the point honestly? Rapid fire 18' weapons means they won't ever use it. Rapid fire Big shoota's....maybe, but you won't see them often since they lose the value when they move and most orky things like to move.

It means shoota boyz get double the number of shots under the right conditions. Running with shootas was never a real option. And nothing is stopping weapons from getting a range upgrade. Then consider DDD is almost certainly going to change into hits rather than attacks.

Advancing with Shootas with Rapid Fire means they cant fire, people who generally take Shoota Boyz are Bad Moons and Evil Suns. Shoota Boyz also like to krump things in combat, not as well as Slugga Boyz but 3 attacks (assuming 20+) each is generally better than their gun to begin with. Rapid Fire is more of a nerf than a buff to anything Orky, especially when we are an army that generally, Advances and Charges. Id rather be Assault 3 at range 18" than Rapid Fire 2, any day of the week. Rapid Fire serves no place in an Ork army CURRENTLY.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Wait is he actually arguing meganobz are better than terminators? bruh...


Termis have a 5++, better ranged options, better melee options, better movement speed and inbuilt deep strike lmfao

And if we are being honest with ourselves, Meganobz are more expensive.... As we are taking dual Killsaws. Nobody is taking Kustom Shoota and Powerklaw. Thats 40pts a model. Terminators stock are 38pts which they arent bad at being stock but.... double Lightning Claws is a whooping 33pts. The only thing more expensive than a Meganob is Thunderhammer and Storm Shield at 43pts, of which for 3pts more they get a 1+ save and a 4+ invuln.

 deffrekka wrote:


And if we are being honest with ourselves, Meganobz are more expensive.... As we are taking dual Killsaws. Nobody is taking Kustom Shoota and Powerklaw. Thats 40pts a model. Terminators stock are 38pts which they arent bad at being stock but.... double Lightning Claws is a whooping 33pts. The only thing more expensive than a Meganob is Thunderhammer and Storm Shield at 43pts, of which for 3pts more they get a 1+ save and a 4+ invuln.

Yep, pretty much spot on. I compared stock to stock as a base point but you are right, if I'm running meganobz i'll pay the extra pts for killsaws any day of the week because a 4 shot Kustom shoota is USELESS. its functionally 2 boyz shooting which amounts to diddly squat.

Boyz at 9ppm, Snagga Boyz at 11ppm.

The leak is legit as it anticipated the dakka weapon type and the snakebite kultur previewed on warcom today.

 Aenar wrote:
Boyz at 9ppm, Snagga Boyz at 11ppm.

The leak is legit as it anticipated the dakka weapon type and the snakebite kultur previewed on warcom today.

its is looking like the case, but not completely in the confirmed category yet. a lot of the changes and things there that seem to be being removed are not looking great for orks, I am hoping this is not the case but it may be a 6th ed ork codex again where the new one is worse than the old one .

In that case, I honestly see no reason to run boyz unless beastsnaggas can't ride transports.

 Jidmah wrote:
In that case, I honestly see no reason to run boyz unless beastsnaggas can't ride transports.

Beast Snaggas are the mathematically superior choice in all cases thanks to 3 additional rules for 2 measly points (they do indeed lose access to Trukks/BWs but you're gonna footslog them anyway as Goff Horde)

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 Aenar wrote:
Boyz at 9ppm, Snagga Boyz at 11ppm.

The leak is legit as it anticipated the dakka weapon type and the snakebite kultur previewed on warcom today.

its is looking like the case, but not completely in the confirmed category yet. a lot of the changes and things there that seem to be being removed are not looking great for orks, I am hoping this is not the case but it may be a 6th ed ork codex again where the new one is worse than the old one .

7th edition codex we didn't get one in 5th or 6th edition and the 7th was arguably (bordering on unarguably) the worst of the entire edition.

9ppm orkz is such a bummer, especially since Shootas just got worse in most scenarios. Well, looks like all the Marine players complaining about their bolter fantasies not coming true finally won out :(

Wait what, 9ppm for boyz? But why tho?
Is +1 toughness really worth 3 points? Did they get an extra wound and better armor as well at least?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wait what, 9ppm for boyz? But why tho?
Is +1 toughness really worth 3 points? Did they get an extra wound and better armor as well at least?

They got -1AP on their choppas?

Rihgu wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wait what, 9ppm for boyz? But why tho?
Is +1 toughness really worth 3 points? Did they get an extra wound and better armor as well at least?

They got -1AP on their choppas?

Yeah ok that's pretty useful I guess. Still seems pretty high though for a unit that's meant to be fielded in large numbers and really wants to get in close.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wait what, 9ppm for boyz? But why tho?
Is +1 toughness really worth 3 points? Did they get an extra wound and better armor as well at least?

They got -1AP on their choppas?

Yeah ok that's pretty useful I guess. Still seems pretty high though for a unit that's meant to be fielded in large numbers and really wants to get in close.

Boyz were 8ppm and massively over priced for what little they did. The +1ppm is just to appease the Marine players who were upset that any other faction might get a durability boost. So now since 4th edition Orkz went up 3ppm, gained S4, T5, lost movement, lost dmg output and lost attacks on the charge. Marines went up 3ppm and gained double shooting, double wounds, double CC attacks on the 1st round, AP on weapons depending on turn etc.

this is just stupid at this point.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wait what, 9ppm for boyz? But why tho?
Is +1 toughness really worth 3 points? Did they get an extra wound and better armor as well at least?

They got -1AP on their choppas?

Yeah ok that's pretty useful I guess. Still seems pretty high though for a unit that's meant to be fielded in large numbers and really wants to get in close.

Yea, I'm personally getting vibes that the way boyz are "meant" to be run, between the pricing and other rumored changes, are small units in trukks. We'll see how it all shakes out, though.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
In that case, I honestly see no reason to run boyz unless beastsnaggas can't ride transports.

Beast Snaggas are the mathematically superior choice in all cases thanks to 3 additional rules for 2 measly points (they do indeed lose access to Trukks/BWs but you're gonna footslog them anyway as Goff Horde)

Additional rules for a 2 PPM increase? Can't use the old transports? This sounds familiar.......

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
In that case, I honestly see no reason to run boyz unless beastsnaggas can't ride transports.

Beast Snaggas are the mathematically superior choice in all cases thanks to 3 additional rules for 2 measly points (they do indeed lose access to Trukks/BWs but you're gonna footslog them anyway as Goff Horde)

Additional rules for a 2 PPM increase? Can't use the old transports? This sounds familiar.......

Something something primorkz.

Bud, i'm getting burned out today. 2 back to back Sneak Previews from GW where they are all "LOOK AT THIS! ORKZ IZ AMAZING!" and than you take 2 steps back and look at it and realize "huh, this is crap. They nerfed orkz".

Yesterday was bad because they nerfed ork shooting and had the balls to sit there and say "its better!" but today's preview was worse because you have half these muppets who think Transhuman that only works on S6 and S7 is great. Guys its a crap kulture.

Than to top it all off, we see all these leaks on Discord, Mek Gunz don't become individual units, can only be taken in 3s. Same with Buggies, boyz going up to 9ppm etc etc etc. Its just not a good day

SemperMortis wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
In that case, I honestly see no reason to run boyz unless beastsnaggas can't ride transports.

Beast Snaggas are the mathematically superior choice in all cases thanks to 3 additional rules for 2 measly points (they do indeed lose access to Trukks/BWs but you're gonna footslog them anyway as Goff Horde)

Additional rules for a 2 PPM increase? Can't use the old transports? This sounds familiar.......

Something something primorkz.

Bud, i'm getting burned out today. 2 back to back Sneak Previews from GW where they are all "LOOK AT THIS! ORKZ IZ AMAZING!" and than you take 2 steps back and look at it and realize "huh, this is crap. They nerfed orkz".

Yesterday was bad because they nerfed ork shooting and had the balls to sit there and say "its better!" but today's preview was worse because you have half these muppets who think Transhuman that only works on S6 and S7 is great. Guys its a crap kulture.

Than to top it all off, we see all these leaks on Discord, Mek Gunz don't become individual units, can only be taken in 3s. Same with Buggies, boyz going up to 9ppm etc etc etc. Its just not a good day

Sorry man. Didn't mean to bring you down. Just seemed like a bit of a coincidence.

I mean Dakka weaponry is not "bad"..*
it's just sad that choppa boyz once again make the run because dakka is not something orkz do seemingly




*Assuming dakka weapons also are assault weapons