How much do you think Boyz will cost per model?

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**SemperMortis**

Not Online!!! wrote:
I mean Dakka weaponry is not "bad"..*
it's just sad that choppa boyz once again make the run because dakka is not something orkz do seemingly

*Assuming dakka weapons also are assault weapons

Ive covered this in depth, but Shoota's just got worse in general. Big shootas got better but they were utter crap to begin with. I was hoping for 5 shots at -1AP at hte least

**Mr. Grey**

Where does it say that Beast Snagga boyz can't ride in transports? I missed that.

Not happy with the changes so far, there are some big red flags in what we've seen so far.

**the_scotsman**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
KurtAngle2 wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
In that case, I honestly see no reason to run boyz unless beastsnaggas can't ride transports.

Beast Snaggas are the mathematically superior choice in all cases thanks to 3 additional rules for 2 measly points (they do indeed lose access to Trukks/BWs but you're gonna footslog them anyway as Goff Horde)

Additional rules for a 2 PPM increase? Can't use the old transports? This sounds familiar.......

Something something primorkz.

Bud, i'm getting burned out today. 2 back to back Sneak Previews from GW where they are all "LOOK AT THIS! ORKZ IZ AMAZING!" and than you take 2 steps back and look at it and realize "huh, this is crap. They nerfed orkz".

Yesterday was bad because they nerfed ork shooting and had the balls to sit there and say "its better!" but today's preview was worse because you have half these muppets who think Transhuman that only works on S6 and S7 is great. Guys its a crap kulture.

Than to top it all off, we see all these leaks on Discord, Mek Gunz don't become individual units, can only be taken in 3s. Same with Buggies, boyz going up to 9ppm etc etc etc. Its just not a good day

Sorry man. Didn't mean to bring you down. Just seemed like a bit of a coincidence.

Wait, so....Mek Gunz can only be taken in units of 3? So if I buy one, even TWO 60$ kits from GW they are unplayable? That seems unlikely.

EDIT: the unit size CAP seems to be three, and if you DO take 3, they DO stay one unit as opposed to now where you can take 6 of them in one slot and they split when you deploy them.

**SemperMortis**

the_scotsman wrote:

Wait, so....Mek Gunz can only be taken in units of 3? So if I buy one, even TWO 60$ kits from GW they are unplayable? That seems unlikely.

EDIT: the unit size CAP seems to be three, and if you DO take 3, they DO stay one unit as opposed to now where you can take 6 of them in one slot and they split when you deploy them.

Sorry for the miscommunication, i meant unit cap. And yeah, its a major nerf if its true. If it is true...I now have the most mek gunz you can take

**the_scotsman**

SemperMortis wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:

Wait, so....Mek Gunz can only be taken in units of 3? So if I buy one, even TWO 60$ kits from GW they are unplayable? That seems unlikely.

EDIT: the unit size CAP seems to be three, and if you DO take 3, they DO stay one unit as opposed to now where you can take 6 of them in one slot and they split when you deploy them.

Sorry for the miscommunication, i meant unit cap. And yeah, its a major nerf if its true. If it is true...I now have the most mek gunz you can take

Yeah, I only have 2. TBH I'd be fine with a nerf to them - theyve been The Crutch Unit making every ork shooting unit garbage for two editions running now.

**Spoletta**

And the correct answer was 9!

**blaktoof**

The discord boys ppm leak is poorly written. It says snagga boys are +2ppm over boys, so they think it is 11. They don't actually sound sure of it's 11. People then went on to say boys are 9ppm. They could be but the leak does actually state boys are 9ppm.

Edit- having now seen the leaked codex they are 9ppm.

**Argive**

do we know the point cost yet ? Id have imagined it be leaked by now

**Blackie**

Argive wrote:
do we know the point cost yet ? Id have imagined it be leaked by now

It's 9ppm, according to the leaked datasheets.

**epronovost**

Blackie wrote:
Argive wrote:
do we know the point cost yet ? Id have imagined it be leaked by now

It's 9ppm, according to the leaked datasheets.

Sounds pretty fair considering the boost to toughness and the AP on choppa and increase in dakka.

**Blackie**

epronovost wrote:
Blackie wrote:
Argive wrote:
do we know the point cost yet ? Id have imagined it be leaked by now

It's 9ppm, according to the leaked datasheets.

Sounds pretty fair considering the boost to toughness and the AP on choppa and increase in dakka.

It's actually impossible to say without seeing the whole picture. For example boyz also got a tons of nerfs: worse morale, some klans buffs decreased, no respawn, probably no flat S5 (only if they charged) for goffs, no more tankbusta bombs, KFF nerfed to 6++, etc... with all the leaks boyz seem definitely worse than before, now only good in a a few small embarked units. It's really too soon to say.

**G00fySmiley**

epronovost wrote:
Blackie wrote:
Argive wrote:
do we know the point cost yet ? Id have imagined it be leaked by now

It's 9ppm, according to the leaked datasheets.

Sounds pretty fair considering the boost to toughness and the AP on choppa and increase in dakka.

honestly this being the intro of tougher orks i think they overreacted with the debuffs elsewhere. the codex was live on the app over the weekend and most of it was screen capped and leaked all over the web. the newer stuff like suig riders and out new squigboss seem top tier, buggies seem ok still, but the old core ork units seem to have had a lot of nerfs. I am hoping something got missed in those screenshots, the biggest issue now is dakka does not seem to allow advance and shoot so a lot of ork units will have guns that would pick off a model or 2 before shooting and now will just be points paid for in the profile to sit on the model unused.

**Not Online!!!**

So no advance + shoot for dakka weaponry....

Not feeling it.. really not , despite t5 shoota boyz are basically useless then.

**G00fySmiley**

I am hoping it just wasn't part of the screen captures. we should know Saturday and this afternoon at 1PM eastern there is a new orks codex discussion so assumign that is NDA removal time to get mroe info (on art of war youtube). also a live game tomorrow at 1pm so I will be watching it all there

**Daedalus81**

Mr. Grey wrote:
Where does it say that Beast Snagga boyz can't ride in transports? I missed that.

Not happy with the changes so far, there are some big red flags in what we've seen so far.

It doesn't.

This is the trukk:

And these are Snagga keywords:

You just can't put Boyz on Snagga transport.

Also, Ghaz fits in a Battlewagon now.

**Tyel**

Not Online!!! wrote:
So no advance + shoot for dakka weaponry....

Not feeling it.. really not , despite t5 shoota boyz are basically useless then.

Not really sure this would have made them any more interesting.

As it stands.. yeah. I feel Shoota Boyz should have remained 8 points. If I squint really hard Bad Moons (and maybe Freebooterz) might be okay - not great by a long way, but if you were going to take 3*10 for your Troops slots, its probably just touching on viable. Against basic S4 shooting they are marginally tougher than grots, and they can contribute a dash of shooting (with say a big shoota or rokkit too).

But then my own reading of the leaks is that the days of "here's my list, half is all boyz" is probably over.

**Not Online!!!**

Tyel wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
So no advance + shoot for dakka weaponry....

Not feeling it.. really not , despite t5 shoota boyz are basically useless then.

Not really sure this would have made them any more interesting.

As it stands.. yeah. I feel Shoota Boyz should have remained 8 points. If I squint really hard Bad Moons (and maybe Freebooterz) might be okay - not great by a long way, but if you were going to take 3*10 for your Troops slots, its probably just touching on viable. Against basic S4 shooting they are marginally tougher than grots, and they can contribute a dash of shooting (with say a big shoota or rokkit too).

But then my own reading of the leaks is that the days of "here's my list, half is all boyz" is probably over.

i don't mind the fact that boyz % drops , what i mind is that it drops not because other stuff finally is worth taking / mixing up the playstyle but rather --> these types of boys are basically worthless.

mostly it annoys me, because i intended depending upon price to get myself 20-30 new boys for my trucks in my airwaagh... and i wanted to go full dakka, because dakka

**Daedalus81**

People are really opting to pass over the buffs to focus on the nerfs.

Kommandos went from this:

to this:

And then they got this handy little guy:

**Not Online!!!**

that doesn't change the fact that virtually half of an ork boyz equipment is.... well, once again pretty much useless daed?

And yes , kommandos being good is great, other than as cheap object grabbers but rather as a sneaky elite choice, but that doesn't make shootas anything worthwile really which are far more prevalent overall in the factions.

**Gadzilla666**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Mr. Grey wrote:
Where does it say that Beast Snagga boyz can't ride in transports? I missed that.

Not happy with the changes so far, there are some big red flags in what we've seen so far.

It doesn't.

This is the trukk:

And these are Snagga keywords:

You just can't put Boyz on Snagga transport.

Also, Ghaz fits in a Battlewagon now.

How does Ghaz fit in a Battlewagon? Is he INFANTRY instead of a MONSTER now?

**Wakshaani**

Not Online!!! wrote:
that doesn't change the fact that virtually half of an ork boyz equipment is.... well, once again pretty much useless daed?

And yes , kommandos being good is great, other than as cheap object grabbers but rather as a sneaky elite choice, but that doesn't make shootas anything worthwile really which are far more prevalent overall in the factions.

Depends on the Clan. Bad Moons they're still good in, for example. Also excellent in Blood Axes (my lads!) where you can fall back and unload at will, with no penalty to-hit. Being able to ride around in a Trukk for safety, guns blazing, and even being given a bad touch can't slow you down?

Yeah, that's some good Dakka.

**Daedalus81**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
How does Ghaz fit in a Battlewagon? Is he INFANTRY instead of a MONSTER now?

He's a big fatty.

**Gadzilla666**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
How does Ghaz fit in a Battlewagon? Is he INFANTRY instead of a MONSTER now?

He's a big fatty.

Oh that is hilarious! And awesome!

**Arbiter_Shade**

Cuttin' Flames and Breakin' Heads went from always on abilities to stratagems.

Rocket launchers went to heavy while at the same time nerfing Tank Busta's ability to just negate the fact that they are heavy. This is just huge to me, Rocket Launchers are just garbage now. Moving makes you hit on a 6+, how on earth is this supposed to EVER be useful? Did they forget that Orks are BS 5+?

Killsaw is just straight up worthless compared to Power Klaws now. Instead of making Power Klaws not awful they just flipped the stats.

Holly gak they actually did the same bs they did to Plague Marines to Kommandos, have fun with that mix of weaponry on a 10 man Ork squad.

Bikes are for some reason S4 while Boyz are S5?

Kustom Force Field is now only a 6++

Makari's invul save is nerfed...honestly that one was needed.

Killa Kans and Deffdreads went down in points a bit but that is not enough to salvage either of them.

Hey! Something good, Loota's Deffgun is Dakka 3/2

But on that note I am not a fan of the new Dakka rules, since they are not assault weapons I can not advance and shoot with them? I hope there is something more to them.

And to no ones surprise the Stompa is still a worthless pile of junk.

I know that it is not an absolutely complete picture but it gives me very little hope of the codex being even close to on par with what we have seen so far out of 9th codexs.

**G00fySmiley**

only the new beast boyz are S5 normal boyz are str 4 still.

on lootas i don't think they are going to see play, still not a good save that doesn't even get an average of a hit unless in half range. too many points for what it does compare it to say a heavy bolter devastator squad then see why they are bad

**Arbiter_Shade**

G00fySmiley wrote:
only the new beast boyz are S5 normal boyz are str 4 still.

on lootas i don't think they are going to see play, still not a good save that doesn't even get an average of a hit unless in half range. too many points for what it does compare it to say a heavy bolter devastator squad then see why they are bad

You're right, my bad. I took a quick look at the screenshots and didn't pay enough attention to realize that the nob was on top. You are right, but it IS a buff to Loota's even if they still aren't worthwhile. I feel like MOST of what I have seen is very small buffs that don't go nearly far enough to make units viable.

**the_scotsman**

I am still extremely hopeful that Dakka counts as Assault. Even if it 's "assault but if you Advance you always count as over 1/2 range" it'd be OK. I mean, they put "advance and shoot assault with no penalty" on both a core ability (Speedwaagh) and a clan kultur (evil sunz) and this is the grand list of all Assault weapons that don't autohit:

-Kustom Mega Blasta
-Killa Jet Melta Profile
-Heavy and normal Squig Launcha

That's....it....as far as I can tell. Eeeeeeeeeeeeverything else is heavy, pistol, dakka, or autohit.

**Grimskul**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
How does Ghaz fit in a Battlewagon? Is he INFANTRY instead of a MONSTER now?

He's a big fatty.

I like how Ghazzy can just die from rolling a 1 from a dead vehicle now. Or does he just take 4 wounds? I can't remember how his wound cap ability works again or if its been reworded.

**the_scotsman**

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Cuttin' Flames and Breakin' Heads went from always on abilities to stratagems.

Rocket launchers went to heavy while at the same time nerfing Tank Busta's ability to just negate the fact that they are heavy. This is just huge to me, Rocket Launchers are just garbage now. Moving makes you hit on a 6+, how on earth is this supposed to EVER be useful? Did they forget that Orks are BS 5+?

They used to reroll hits. They now get double the shots at the same exact price and ignore the move and shoot penalty (or hit on 4s if they didnt move)

Killsaw is just straight up worthless compared to Power Klaws now. Instead of making Power Klaws not awful they just flipped the stats.

it's Ap-4 and Dd3 vs AP-3 and D2. Also if you take 'em on manz you get the bonus attack still.

Holly gak they actually did the same bs they did to Plague Marines to Kommandos, have fun with that mix of weaponry on a 10 man Ork squad.

Yeah it's annoying as feth. Luckily you can just...never take the burna, the rokkit, the sniper, the distraction grot or whatever and kommandos are AMAZING. Did you perhaps notice taht they get a 3+sv in light cover? and real big-boy infiltrate? And an extra big choppa in the squad with the breacha ram? for 10pts per model?

Bikes are for some reason S4 while Boyz are S5?

Nope, but they are W3 now. Boyz and Bikes are both S4, but I think with bikes you're probably more concerned with that 10 S5 shots per model....I mean, if it were me...

Kustom Force Field is now only a 6++

Yup this sucks. Realistically KFFs now cost 2cp per turn lol.

Makari's invul save is nerfed...honestly that one was needed.

Killa Kans and Deffdreads went down in points a bit but that is not enough to salvage either of them.

Deffdreads are amazing as quad KMB with a kustom job, or honestly decent as a rokkit platform. You also get quadsaw setup now - 7 AP-3 D3 attacks. Still kind of a meh unit. Kanz I like with rokkits - 40pts for a BS4+ rokkit aint bad.

Hey! Something good, Loota's Deffgun is Dakka 3/2

But on that note I am not a fan of the new Dakka rules, since they are not assault weapons I can not advance and shoot with them? I hope there is something more to them.

Agree if they actually do not work as assault.

And to no ones surprise the Stompa is still a worthless pile of junk.

I think it's as good as it can be while being basically priced out of normal size games. 675pts is fair for a stompa's stats and abilities, its just really tough to justify a 675pt model under like 3k points. It's basically a version of a knight castelan with one melee weapon and one ranged weapon instead of 2x main ranged weapons - it gets 4d6 heavy shots vs 2d6 to make up for the lack of BS, and 40hp instead of 28hp to make up for the lack of 5++.

I know that it is not an absolutely complete picture but it gives me very little hope of the codex being even close to on par with what we have seen so far out of 9th codexs.

**Daedalus81**

Rocket launchers went to heavy while at the same time nerfing Tank Busta's ability to just negate the fact that they are heavy. This is just huge to me, Rocket Launchers are just garbage now. Moving makes you hit on a 6+, how on earth is this supposed to EVER be useful? Did they forget that Orks are BS 5+?

*sigh*

TBs have +1 to hit now instead of rerolls.

They went from 5 * 1.167 * .555 = 3.2 hits to 10 * .333 = 3.3 hits on the move and 4 when standing still.

Not to mention they're also easily AP3 now.

Killsaw is just straight up worthless compared to Power Klaws now. Instead of making Power Klaws not awful they just flipped the stats.

This is the same treatment of CSM PF and CF. This is just missing the flat 3 vs vehicles, but given the +1D strat i'm not sure they wanted that.

Killa Kans and Deffdreads went down in points a bit but that is not enough to salvage either of them.

Kans picked up WS4, ramshackle, and D3 rokkits with no shoot penalty, which is pretty significant.

And to no ones surprise the Stompa is still a worthless pile of junk.

I picked up a huge point cut. Supagatler went from 3D6 to 24/16 and it swings for D9 now.

Also bikes might be bananas good.

Oh and the squig buggy might actually be good now.