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 lord_blackfang wrote:

 tauist wrote:
Fascinating. It almost looks like a 2x2 square area of Zone Mortalis floor equals a single square of Into the Dark floor. Maybe ZM kits are more compatible with this set after all..

ZM tiles aren't even all the same size, so... good luck.

Can you elaborate? My zone mortalis tiles are all the same size (12" square plastic)

The Forgeworld ZM tiles are a slightly different size to the new plastics, and I think both are different to the card board sections that came in Underhive and Badzone delta.

But I think they are all termed Zone Mortalis.

In the context of this discussion "Zone Mortalis tiles" refers only to the plastic ones produced by GW. "compatability" is a non-factor within the context of the cardboard sections, as theres nothing for the IttD walls to have to be "compatible" with, and so the cardboard tiles aren't relevant to this discussion. Likewise, ye olde Forgeworld Zone Mortalis tiles are firstly long out of production, but also non-really relevant in the context of this discussion because those tiles were "fixed" and you would never put wall sections on them anyway.

 judgedoug wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 tauist wrote:
Fascinating. It almost looks like a 2x2 square area of Zone Mortalis floor equals a single square of Into the Dark floor. Maybe ZM kits are more compatible with this set after all..

ZM tiles aren't even all the same size, so... good luck.

Can you elaborate? My zone mortalis tiles are all the same size (12" square plastic)

Okay. Zone Mortalis squares aren't even all the same size. It's not an even grid.

 GiToRaZor wrote:
I like to think that there never was a plan to release a Killteam box with Kasrkin, but rather that this is all just an internal leaker hunt and the fluff text a final good bye note and gotcha to the one leaker they were filtering down.

Reminder, once again: we have seen pictures of the Kasrkin kill team. The models that were previewed are clearly on the kill team bases, not the standard bases that every other model in the leaked image is on. If that's a leak hunt then someone went to a pretty excessive level of effort to find the leak.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm still not convinced Kasrkin will be involved at all in KT.

Why?

Because for some weird reason you're emotionally invested in the idea of the leaks being wrong and you won't accept that the Kasrkin team exists until GW officially announces it.

We've seen pictures of the Kasrkin. We've also not seen a huge chunk of the items(the new Cadian heavy weapons, new Cadians, Command Squad, and Commissar) in that leaked image--which looks to be from a codex not a KT book--in any meaningful, real photos. For all you know, they all have the same base as the Kasrkin do.

For all you or I know, the reason the basing is different has nothing to do with Kill Team and everything to do with the warzone they're supposed to be accompanying or that Creed and the Sentinel were supposed to come out with Psychic Awakening.

 Kanluwen wrote:
For all you know, they all have the same base as the Kasrkin do.

You can clearly see in the leaked picture that they don't. The Kasrkin are the only models on the kill team base.

For all you or I know, the reason the basing is different has nothing to do with Kill Team and everything to do with the warzone they're supposed to be accompanying or that Creed and the Sentinel were supposed to come out with Psychic Awakening.

Yes, that is definitely a much more plausible answer than the theory that the leak by someone who has posted other accurate leaks is in fact correct.

/s

Who posted the Kill Team rumor?

It wasn't OK_E. It wasn't the person who posted the leak list on B&C.

We will likely see before the release of IG what of this is true. The next Kill Team box should hit the stores around November-Dezember, shortly before the IG dex in "winter". The base design originated in BSF, Azrakh, the year 2 mini, is also standing on it. While I wouldn't put it beyond GW to lock a set like Kasrkin for months in a box, I still really don't see them being a Kill Team. Every dedicated for Kill Team new squad had a focus on individualism of the models, with basic loadout as an optional extra to be 40K available. This would rather look like a 40K team gets an upgrade kit to be in Kill Team to me. And that would be doubly weird, all of those kits had models for a while already.

Also, Arbites in a Space Hulk? What are they doing there? Hunting Cultists that left the planet without permit? That sounds way too desperate to be true.

One way or another, we'll see soon enough.

I know someone's going to flip his gak over a non-GW product posted ina GW thread, but here's a kickstarter for Gallowdark comptible floors already

https://dragons.rest/pages/precint-umbra

I note from reading the Into the Dark book that the terrain is divided into two Killzones.
Killzone: Gallowdark is all the walls, and then Killzone: Into The Dark is all the other bits (pipes, overhangs).

They seem to have separate rules. Might allow for some speculation on what we'll see in future sets. Almost certainly unique killzones (some different environments are mentioned in the fluff, including a shanty town and somewhere with lots of gantries). But then we also need to take into account that GW have said future boxes will have compatible terrain, so perhaps we will see additional Gallowdark pieces along with with a different unique killzone set in each box?

deano2099 wrote:
I note from reading the Into the Dark book that the terrain is divided into two Killzones.
Killzone: Gallowdark is all the walls, and then Killzone: Into The Dark is all the other bits (pipes, overhangs).

They seem to have separate rules. Might allow for some speculation on what we'll see in future sets. Almost certainly unique killzones (some different environments are mentioned in the fluff, including a shanty town and somewhere with lots of gantries). But then we also need to take into account that GW have said future boxes will have compatible terrain, so perhaps we will see additional Gallowdark pieces along with with a different unique killzone set in each box?

Since the box is named Into the Dark I would expect the Killzone: Into The Dark parts to only be included in this box with the Gallowdark parts showing up in the other sets.
Probably less of them in the future but more other pieces
So you get a big base now with the future sets having some additional walls but a bigger focus on other unique things

 Kanluwen wrote:
We've seen pictures of the Kasrkin. We've also not seen a huge chunk of the items(the new Cadian heavy weapons, new Cadians, Command Squad, and Commissar) in that leaked image--which looks to be from a codex not a KT book--in any meaningful, real photos. For all you know, they all have the same base as the Kasrkin do.

For all you or I know, the reason the basing is different has nothing to do with Kill Team and everything to do with the warzone they're supposed to be accompanying or that Creed and the Sentinel were supposed to come out with Psychic Awakening.

It's pretty much unprecedented for GW to release a new set of models and put them on different bases. It's designed to be nice and cohesive for marketing photos and the webstore, which is why special characters almost always end up being from the sub-faction Eavy Metal painted or even painted that way when they're not in the lore.

Different basing is one thing, but even the rims of the bases are a different colour to the others.

I hope Kasrkin are not for Kill Team. They are not that suited for it as grenadiers are typically elite line infantry, not special operatives. I'd much rather an upgrade sprue for Scions, as they have a long history of completing infiltration missions and other special operations that Kill Team is all about. They have a lot of options already on the sprue, but they are ripe for some cool new parts like demolitions (Stormtroopers used to have access to meltabombs, could be cool) or an auspex intel Scion.

That doesn't mean GW won't do it, but I'd prefer they didn't. It is possible that Kasrkin get White Dwarf/Compendium rules too, like Primaris Intercessors.

Uh, the Krieg squad, the first unit of the new edition, the literal poster boys, are just regular line infantry with an accessory sprue for little things like maps and pocket watches. Kasrkin are at least Elites with close-quarters training and heavy armour that would make them more suited to the kind of urban infiltration operations the new KT seems to be intent on depicting.

Kill Team is MOSTLY line infantry instead of specialists.

Even the specific Kill Team kits are mostly units which aren't really suited to the role.

Novitiates are literally Persons-In-Training rather than line soldiers, too.

Yeah, it’s odd and possibly ironic, but the only kill team released specifically for the new edition so far that is actually their species’ infiltration and recon special unit is the Ork Kommandos. And maybe the Mechanicus’ Sicaran units, assuming they count as being releases specifically for this edition now they have been published in an actual book. Even the T’au forgot that Stealth Battlesuits existed…

Kind of hilarious the only actual infiltration and recon unit specifically released for the current Kill Team, belongs to the bloody ORKS of all factions.

I would challenge this point and note that the Phobos team is the second infiltration team released for Kill Team that is thematically on point. Pathfinders are not far off either and arguably Wyrmblade fits as the whole faction is a stealthy insurgency.

Corsairs fit the Into the Dark setting best of all the Season 1 factions.

Speaking of recon, didn't Kroot have infiltrating rules in 40K? They sort of fit the theme, right?

 GiToRaZor wrote:
We will likely see before the release of IG what of this is true. The next Kill Team box should hit the stores around November-Dezember, shortly before the IG dex in "winter".

IIRC they said both IG and World Eaters would be out winter this year. I think its more likely the next Kill Team box is out after the codex.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Yeah, it’s odd and possibly ironic, but the only kill team released specifically for the new edition so far that is actually their species’ infiltration and recon special unit is the Ork Kommandos. And maybe the Mechanicus’ Sicaran units, assuming they count as being releases specifically for this edition now they have been published in an actual book. Even the T’au forgot that Stealth Battlesuits existed…

Pathfinders are literally infiltration and recon specialists, you know that right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Haighus wrote:
I hope Kasrkin are not for Kill Team. They are not that suited for it as grenadiers are typically elite line infantry, not special operatives.

They are actually both. Remember that Kasrkin weren't just a squad--fluffwise, there were entire regiments of them. That included scout/saboteur specialists, heavy weapon teams, etc.

Things do get a bit weird with regards to them anyways. The "Grenadiers" doctrine that was used to represent them simply allowed you to take an additional 3 units as part of your Guard army in the Troop choices. You still took the "Storm Trooper Squads" doctrine as well for the Cadian Shock Troops.

I'd much rather an upgrade sprue for Scions, as they have a long history of completing infiltration missions and other special operations that Kill Team is all about. They have a lot of options already on the sprue, but they are ripe for some cool new parts like demolitions (Stormtroopers used to have access to meltabombs, could be cool) or an auspex intel Scion.

Being dropped behind enemy lines on suicide missions aren't necessarily "special operations" or "infiltration missions". Remember that Scions are considered just as expendable as the Guard are. It's not hard to find recruits for the Schola Progenium.

I think only Chaos legionaries don't fit the infiltration theme so much for Kill Team 2021 released units personally. Traditionally, Chaos Chosen were the infiltrators. Everything else fits pretty well IMO. Even the Sisters unit is logical if you only have power armoured alternatives if you want to do an infiltration mission.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Yeah, it’s odd and possibly ironic, but the only kill team released specifically for the new edition so far that is actually their species’ infiltration and recon special unit is the Ork Kommandos. And maybe the Mechanicus’ Sicaran units, assuming they count as being releases specifically for this edition now they have been published in an actual book. Even the T’au forgot that Stealth Battlesuits existed…

Pathfinders are literally infiltration and recon specialists, you know that right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Haighus wrote:
I hope Kasrkin are not for Kill Team. They are not that suited for it as grenadiers are typically elite line infantry, not special operatives.

They are actually both. Remember that Kasrkin weren't just a squad--fluffwise, there were entire regiments of them. That included scout/saboteur specialists, heavy weapon teams, etc.

Things do get a bit weird with regards to them anyways. The "Grenadiers" doctrine that was used to represent them simply allowed you to take an additional 3 units as part of your Guard army in the Troop choices. You still took the "Storm Trooper Squads" doctrine as well for the Cadian Shock Troops.

I'd much rather an upgrade sprue for Scions, as they have a long history of completing infiltration missions and other special operations that Kill Team is all about. They have a lot of options already on the sprue, but they are ripe for some cool new parts like demolitions (Stormtroopers used to have access to meltabombs, could be cool) or an auspex intel Scion.

Being dropped behind enemy lines on suicide missions aren't necessarily "special operations" or "infiltration missions". Remember that Scions are considered just as expendable as the Guard are. It's not hard to find recruits for the Schola Progenium.

Sure, but in the 3.5 codex, veterans and stormtroopers had infiltrate, and grenadiers explicitly didn't. So the expectation is that the former two are more suited for infiltration than Kasrkin, who tend to spearhead conventional operations.

The organisation of Kasrkin has always been a bit variable- it seems some regiments have Kasrkin grenadier companies, rather than being entirely Kasrkin.

There is loads of lore of stormtroopers doing infiltration and recon stuff, not just combat drops and suicide runs. The back of the 3.5 ed codex with the 3rd War for Armageddon lore snippets includes a mission briefing for an operation where a platoon is tasked with holding an escape route for a single squad of stormtroopers to exfiltrate via after their small-scale assault. The 3rd war campaign website also had several examples of stormtrooper infiltration missions in the Ash Wastes. I am pretty sure I have read more recent examples in lore, but cannot recall them off the top of my head. In contrast, I can't think of any examples of Kasrkin engaging in similar missions in the lore. I'm sure they do, but it seems to be much less of a priority for them.

My copy of Into the Dark arrived! Saturday shall be the first filing & building day for the terrain. I'll have some Zone Mortalis floors and tiles to compare with by then as well.

Here's also a comparison pict showing the diffs between the cards of Octarius and the cards of S2. This season's cards have a printed background graphic, in addition to the "corrected" wording on this particular card..

My KT21S1 book collection is also now complete

Yea, quite happy they fixed the cards. Less happy they changed the backs… but only of one set.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 GiToRaZor wrote:
We will likely see before the release of IG what of this is true. The next Kill Team box should hit the stores around November-Dezember, shortly before the IG dex in "winter".

IIRC they said both IG and World Eaters would be out winter this year. I think its more likely the next Kill Team box is out after the codex.

I don't know which definition of Winter GW uses though. https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/seasons/winter/when-does-winter-start

At worst astrological, and I doubt they'll release it on Christmas. Also remember we almost always have delays. Chances are we see only a partial release of a box in December, full codex release in January and then the same with World Eaters in Feb+March.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Yea, quite happy they fixed the cards. Less happy they changed the backs… but only of one set.

Yeah, that was weird.. The card manufacturer ran out of orange colour or something?

Anyhoo, about that Annual 2022. Cracked the book open last night, and it's pretty cool! There's 15 new missions in addition to the 6 Kill Team rules. Three multiplayer missions each for both 3 & 4 player games. Three Last Stand missions. Six new sentry missions (unsure if they are a reprint from WD tho).

Last stand seems really cool. The defender has access to 10 defensive assets with which to even the odds a bit. My next game is going to be a Last Stand mission for sure!

IttD can wait for now

There are multiplayer missions in there?....oh crap and here I thought I could spare my pile of shame this growth for another 3 months.....does anyone want to have the Breachers and/or Kroot?

Quick question: Are they any good?

We've played a lot of 3 player rounds and the balancing always tilts in round 2 and makes the games less enjoyable. Is there a systematic solution for this in there or is it still: people better have foresight in round 1....

chaos0xomega wrote:
IIRC they said both IG and World Eaters would be out winter this year. I think its more likely the next Kill Team box is out after the codex.

 GiToRaZor wrote:

Spoiler:

I don't know which definition of Winter GW uses though. https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/seasons/winter/when-does-winter-start

At worst astrological, and I doubt they'll release it on Christmas. Also remember we almost always have delays. Chances are we see only a partial release of a box in December, full codex release in January and then the same with World Eaters in Feb+March.

The roadmap pretty clearly says "2022-23", meaning "Winter" is almost certainly December to February. Fairly unlikely we'll see both of those codexes this year.

If the IG Combat Patrol is all new models as rumoured, I could see them dropping that, the Guard codex, and a new Kill Team box before Xmas with a followup IG wave in January. Then World Eaters starting in Feb as you say.