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 Albino Squirrel wrote:
I have no particular interest in D&D miniatures, but I have no idea why people find the prices here high. GW recently released two witch hunter models with much less customizability than these, for $50 for the two of them. And it sold out. So why do you think people wouldn't pay $15 for a single hero with a lot of options? Obviously people will and have paid much more.

"yeah but that was for warhammer!"

in all seriousness though yeah I agree it seems god damned silly. especially as if I'm buying a mini for my 5th level fighter... I'm buying ONE mini, and thats that.

Gw prices aren't the benchmark of what is fair and reasonable; they are closer to the absolute maximum that a market leader can force on a relatively captive consumer base.

 warboss wrote:
Gw prices aren't the benchmark of what is fair and reasonable; they are closer to the absolute maximum that a market leader can force on a relatively captive consumer base.

sure but even if we accept that, how much does GW charge for a single character model?

if people are willing to pay that much I think it's a safe bet people'll put down 15 bucks for a D&D mini.

For those prices I would expect high quality minis... not those sculpts.

 Manchu wrote:
I was interested until I saw the prices.

Not sure who this is for.

People who buy fantasy miniatures that are not themselves miniatures gamers are already well served by WizKids pre-paints or Bones or Black Box.

Miniatures gamers who buy fantasy miniatures are going to know these prices are for suckers.

It’s a strange product line.

These are my thoughts as well. I don't think this will be a long-lived line of products beyond the initial release.

As to the Wizards sprue - perhaps (cross fingers) that's for the Heroquest Hasbro Pulse? I'm eagerly awaiting that game to get released...

BrianDavion wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Gw prices aren't the benchmark of what is fair and reasonable; they are closer to the absolute maximum that a market leader can force on a relatively captive consumer base.

sure but even if we accept that, how much does GW charge for a single character model?

if people are willing to pay that much I think it's a safe bet people'll put down 15 bucks for a D&D mini.

But people aren’t paying that kind of money for figures without the GW brand. And anyone who will only buy the DnD brand will run right into the 2-for-$5 option in any kind of a search or browse for that brand. GW doesn’t have any more affordable options in-brand, while DND has many options, plenty of which are better looking than the $15 characters and $25-$100 monsters.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Gw prices aren't the benchmark of what is fair and reasonable; they are closer to the absolute maximum that a market leader can force on a relatively captive consumer base.

sure but even if we accept that, how much does GW charge for a single character model?

if people are willing to pay that much I think it's a safe bet people'll put down 15 bucks for a D&D mini.

But people aren’t paying that kind of money for figures without the GW brand. And anyone who will only buy the DnD brand will run right into the 2-for-$5 option in any kind of a search or browse for that brand. GW doesn’t have any more affordable options in-brand, while DND has many options, plenty of which are better looking than the $15 characters and $25-$100 monsters.

IDK, I think you're making some big assumptions. I mean honestly, it's not like the digital sculpts are any worse than GW ones, they just don't all have (sometimes) convoluted poses on tactical rocks, and have more realistic proportions- things that are actually rather attractive.

Likewise, I think you're missing that the value from them comes from NOT getting a lump of rubber with bent out of shape swords and spears that the 2 for $5's often seem to be (from my experience), but something you con customize -and in the hands of people who are willing to try thier hand at conversions (depending on the nature of the material they use) potentially open to so, so many more options.

And if these minis are in a scale more comparable with the rest of the various ranges then so much the better.

Is this gonna take down GW? No, of course not! But I think the idea has legs, and there is a market for them.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Gw prices aren't the benchmark of what is fair and reasonable; they are closer to the absolute maximum that a market leader can force on a relatively captive consumer base.

sure but even if we accept that, how much does GW charge for a single character model?

if people are willing to pay that much I think it's a safe bet people'll put down 15 bucks for a D&D mini.

But people aren’t paying that kind of money for figures without the GW brand. And anyone who will only buy the DnD brand will run right into the 2-for-$5 option in any kind of a search or browse for that brand. GW doesn’t have any more affordable options in-brand, while DND has many options, plenty of which are better looking than the $15 characters and $25-$100 monsters.

I think you guys underestimate what D&D players will pay, and I say this as someone who has painted minis for D&D for going on 30 years now. These look better, IMO, than GW's skull covered nonsense. I think the single PC figures will sell well. You only need one for your PC (or for each PC in the group), so people will spend a bit extra, particularly with the customizable bits to make the mini feel like its "theirs". Many of the parts look interchangeable (the heads are all either on pegs or designed to fit on pegs) and look more cohesive as a whole than, say, Heroforge. Plus the material is better.

The monsters are a harder sell. You need a good number of various types, and multiples of that type. Paying $40 for a hill giant (that you need 3-4 of in a high level encounter) vs $14 for a nolzur's/deep cuts... yeah, no. This isnt Warhammer where you'll use that $100 greater demon in most games. You'll use that $100 demon likely once.

But I AM buying that hag w the clear candy sprues!

$15 for your character is not bad, especially if it feels like an upgrade or like you are going “all out” for your character.

In my pathfinder group, one of the guys always gets a premium plastic hero forge mini for his character… which I think is like $40… with shipping. That’s great, but his mini is never really good enough to justify the price, so I think these D&d ones will definitely have a market…

But… instead of buying all new releases or buying 10 or more at a time, I do think most will only buy 1 or 2 of these…

…also, while I think the $15 is not bad… the $50 for 5 Orcs or kobolds… is a big no. Would I spend $15 for an important npc? Sure. Would I spend $10 on a random Kobold… no… also I don’t think I want to put as much effort in to assembling enough kobolds to do an encounter with either. The bones kobolds from bones 3? Had arms you needed to attach, and I didn’t want to do that for the 50 kobolds I got… much let’s assemble 7-12 pieces for 1 Kobold. (Just guessing on part count and exaggerating probable part counts to make it sound worse than it probably is.)

So to sum up… $15 for a character is not bad, but I don’t think these will fly off the shelves. $50 for 5 minion bad guys I think is bad, and because there are cheaper options that will be just as good compared to the time these will actually be in play, means the big sets probably won’t be very popular.

Yeah, I've seen in my group we'll splurge a bit for a character mini or named NPC monster (like Strahd, Asmodeus or such), but when it comes to mook enemies and the like, cheaper wins every time.

If they restrict this line to customizable PCs, I can see it surviving. The other monsters? Not likely.

$50 for 5 Orcs… at that point GW may be the cheaper option.

The the monster multikits (orcs, kobolds) I feel they're charging more as they know they're going to sell less but at the same time have made that more likely the case by charging so much that I do think people will avoid them. But maybe they'll look at the PCs at $15 for 1 and think these are a great deal.

 Smokestack wrote:
$50 for 5 Orcs… at that point GW may be the cheaper option.

assumiong they're "in scale" you can get a box of 20 savage Orks for about that price. so yeah, assuming you don't mind the primitative motiff... it's cheaper

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Gw prices aren't the benchmark of what is fair and reasonable; they are closer to the absolute maximum that a market leader can force on a relatively captive consumer base.

sure but even if we accept that, how much does GW charge for a single character model?

if people are willing to pay that much I think it's a safe bet people'll put down 15 bucks for a D&D mini.

But people aren’t paying that kind of money for figures without the GW brand. And anyone who will only buy the DnD brand will run right into the 2-for-$5 option in any kind of a search or browse for that brand. GW doesn’t have any more affordable options in-brand, while DND has many options, plenty of which are better looking than the $15 characters and $25-$100 monsters.

That isn't true. Other companies have done fairly well with GW style prices on a per model basis (for smaller skirmish games, even if they're less for a functioning force on the table). Both Privateer and Wyrd come to mind.

And you're also ignoring that D&D is very much a brand of its own. It has its own pull that's as big or bigger than the 'GW brand,' and its very much hyper focused on the latest thing, even when there are better choices.
One of the biggest complaints with 5e D&D is that there isn't _enough_ to spend money on. While the complaints are more focused on the lack of books and game content, some people will jump at any opportunity to spend money.

I try to have a better opinion of my fellow hobbyists, but maybe you’re right.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Smokestack wrote:
$50 for 5 Orcs… at that point GW may be the cheaper option.

assumiong they're "in scale" you can get a box of 20 savage Orks for about that price. so yeah, assuming you don't mind the primitative motiff... it's cheaper

A bit off topic but if you need budget monsters, EM4 has old Grendier plastics for literally pennies a model.

https://em4miniatures.com/collections/plastic-fantasy-miniatures

with the prices they've shown, i wonder if they are planning to market these outside the hobby store zone and more towards walmart/target type stores, so then they catch the people that know what dnd is kinda sorta, but won't be up on the much cheaper options out there

I feel like these will definitely show up in book stores that decided to slowly shift into being toy and puzzle stores. (I assume that trend continued, I haven't been into a US bookstore is quiet a while lol)

Carlovonsexron wrote:
I feel like these will definitely show up in book stores that decided to slowly shift into being toy and puzzle stores. (I assume that trend continued, I haven't been into a US bookstore is quiet a while lol)

it continues at least in Canada, they've made bank off my mother during covid, she's discovered the joy of puzzles

Voss wrote:
That isn't true. Other companies have done fairly well with GW style prices on a per model basis (for smaller skirmish games, even if they're less for a functioning force on the table). Both Privateer and Wyrd come to mind.

And you're also ignoring that D&D is very much a brand of its own. It has its own pull that's as big or bigger than the 'GW brand,' and its very much hyper focused on the latest thing, even when there are better choices.
One of the biggest complaints with 5e D&D is that there isn't _enough_ to spend money on. While the complaints are more focused on the lack of books and game content, some people will jump at any opportunity to spend money.

Yahbut don't GW, Wyrd, and Privateer have their own universes that 3rd party companies don't have miniatures for? With D&D and other generic fantasy game systems, I can pretty much use an orc, goblin, or PC from any miniatures line. In fact, GW destroyed their own generic fantasy Fantasy Warhammer universe, to replace it with their IP-owned Age of Sigmar.

WotC's (?) shot at the mass market (eg. bookstores, big box stores) was its "blind box" prepainted miniatures line. I think it ended with oil prices rising, which ended HeroScape as well. Prior, Wizards attempted the more hobby-oriented metal miniatures market with Chainmail. Still, WizKids released licensed D&D mini's (prepainted blind box, unpainted, plastic and papercraft terrain sets), thus showing that there *is* brand value to the D&D and Pathfinder names. The $15 question is if the brand will be worth these prices. (Me, I wish WotC would put out written adventures that used the miniatures and tiles from the D&D system games. The D&D system games have a greater economy of scale because of boardgamers. Of course, the miniature quality isn't on par with hobby miniatures, so those sprues had better be good!)

Although, yeah, I wouldn't disagree that RPG'ers have money to blow -- who wants to buy some 50th anniversary (minus five years) sapphire D&D dice???
https://dnd.wizards.com/products/sapphire-anniversary

Carlovonsexron wrote:
I feel like these will definitely show up in book stores that decided to slowly shift into being toy and puzzle stores. (I assume that trend continued, I haven't been into a US bookstore is quiet a while lol)

Kinda,
There are two B&N near me, one doesnt carry any games and only book,
one has a good selection.
Millinials and Gen Z have had a good relationship with book stores now and buy more from them.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Smokestack wrote:
$50 for 5 Orcs… at that point GW may be the cheaper option.

assumiong they're "in scale" you can get a box of 20 savage Orks for about that price. so yeah, assuming you don't mind the primitative motiff... it's cheaper

A bit off topic but if you need budget monsters, EM4 has old Grendier plastics for literally pennies a model.

https://em4miniatures.com/collections/plastic-fantasy-miniatures

Those might work for goblins nowadays lol. Probably about 22mm to the eyes!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ced1106 wrote:

Voss wrote:
That isn't true. Other companies have done fairly well with GW style prices on a per model basis (for smaller skirmish games, even if they're less for a functioning force on the table). Both Privateer and Wyrd come to mind.

And you're also ignoring that D&D is very much a brand of its own. It has its own pull that's as big or bigger than the 'GW brand,' and its very much hyper focused on the latest thing, even when there are better choices.
One of the biggest complaints with 5e D&D is that there isn't _enough_ to spend money on. While the complaints are more focused on the lack of books and game content, some people will jump at any opportunity to spend money.

Yahbut don't GW, Wyrd, and Privateer have their own universes that 3rd party companies don't have miniatures for? With D&D and other generic fantasy game systems, I can pretty much use an orc, goblin, or PC from any miniatures line. In fact, GW destroyed their own generic fantasy Fantasy Warhammer universe, to replace it with their IP-owned Age of Sigmar.

Certain creatures aren't in the SRD, so are WOTC IP. Mindflayers, Beholders, Displacer Beasts, etc. You can find "counts as"/knockoffs sure, but some people want the figure to look like the monster manual pic. Plus you have adventure tie-ins. GF9 does this with their resins and Wizkids does it with their blind box themed packages. I think people will buy a Minsc/Drizzt/Tasha figure for fun.

 ced1106 wrote:

WotC's (?) shot at the mass market (eg. bookstores, big box stores) was its "blind box" prepainted miniatures line. I think it ended with oil prices rising, which ended HeroScape as well.

I think it was actually rising wages in China. D&D prepaints, Star Wars, and a bunch of other games disappeared. I think Hero Clix is the only one left.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 ced1106 wrote:

WotC's (?) shot at the mass market (eg. bookstores, big box stores) was its "blind box" prepainted miniatures line. I think it ended with oil prices rising, which ended HeroScape as well.

I think it was actually rising wages in China. D&D prepaints, Star Wars, and a bunch of other games disappeared. I think Hero Clix is the only one left.

\

I've heard both oil and wages and considering how a few pennies per figure could really destroy profit on those (and people probably not wanting to pay more for the same thing at the time).

I know Star Wars was in part due to the contrast WoTC had with Lucasfilm. I had a friend at WoTC at that time and the percentage of sales that they were supposed to pay Lucas went up every couple of years and even though they were still selling decently once WoTC got to having to send around 20% to Lucas they no longer were at that point in the games life (and the RPG) so it wasn't worth renewing the license as a whole and not just the pre-paints getting replaced with something else.

I do miss her working there. Didn't really play most things WoTC made so she'd use her employee points for free stuff for the group here when she game into town. Whole cases of Starwars or D&D minis for free. Have the Colossal WoTC AT-AT from that.

the great recession also hit around the same time, which proably didn't help eaither as when a recession hits the first thing that dries up are luxery purchases, ESPECIALLY luxery purchases for little timmy.

So this explains why the Frameworks line was so expensive. It's HIPS not PVC.

Colour me interested. Character minis are cool, but very specific. Kobolds, orcs and such though are right up my alley. Not a fan of bendy plastic or heavy pewter, so...

 Monkeysloth wrote:
So this explains why the Frameworks line was so expensive. It's HIPS not PVC.

Yeah, the price turns me off a bit. I don't us GW as the baseline for single small sprue plastic prices personally but YMMV.

 warboss wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
So this explains why the Frameworks line was so expensive. It's HIPS not PVC.

Yeah, the price turns me off a bit. I don't us GW as the baseline for single small sprue plastic prices personally but YMMV.

I think the monsters are still over priced I think but the humanoids are much more reasonable as they should be $12 with your average discount (and things are just getting more expensive in general now days so I'd not expect them to hit $10 a figure). Especially since you're getting actual reusable and mod-able bits vs PVC which is what most people originally thought they were.