Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I hope that Black Templar codex has digital codes, it’s nice and I don’t want it getting messed up in my carry bag.

And y’know, they’re going to FAQ it anyways so I might as well have a version that can be updated easily without resorting to photocopying it or damaging the book.

Getting my box from my FLGS with an additional discount. Only the cards are something I wouldn't get normally, but even then it is still cheaper then buying it solo later.

Despite the apparent consensus on the lifetime of a codex, I like to have a physical copy. Will be good for 2-4 years.

JWBS wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

Sunno wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Because there are no other games companies, no other miniatures ranges, no other paint manufacturers…?

None that make Games Workshop products.

The biggest power moves and cons that GW has ever been able to pull off is to convince most of the general public and wargaming community that GW IS the wargaming hobby.

How very patronising of you. If only GW fans were as clever as you, they’d see the light.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe we should get back to discussing the actual Black Templar releases.

I was torn on whether to buy the army box. I’m a big, big fan of John Blanche’s work so the book was a big draw. The minis look amazing. However, the box just looks very sparse. It was seeing the leak of the combat patrol that tipped the balance. I’m saving my money for that instead.

Spot on. Patronising is the word for that. Lotta people have been in this hobby for decades and like GW because in many ways, they're the best. But we're just sheeple apparently. We don't know about Mierce or Rackham or Illyad or w/e, if we did we'd definitely be spending most of our hobby money on those minis instead of GW, of course. Added bonus, all of the competition of similar quality are cheap as chips too. I even heard the competitors don't even turn a profit, they do it purely for the love.

A lot of us do look at other games etc, you have to look at the viability of the game. Like I love the models but if it is going to go out of business soon what is the point in buying??? Like I want to buy Arena Rex, but will give them a few more years and if still around and will buy it.

GW is a main hobby stayer. Cause has the rep and the lastability it will have presence over a small company, in 5 years ye that random company maybe defunct, but I have this model since the 80's from GW and is still good... etc.

Back to topic... as I have stated before for AU the BT box is a great deal and the models are a vast improvement on previous start boxes (as in the sprues being versatile and not as mono-pose).

Vorian wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
GW forced me to pirate their books if I wanted to keep playing when they stopped selling digital versions and I had to find others supplying those.

Do you not get a code for digital codex with a physical purchase now?

You know the app doesn’t have all the rules in the Codexes, right? It also is missing some books entirely.

 AduroT wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
GW forced me to pirate their books if I wanted to keep playing when they stopped selling digital versions and I had to find others supplying those.

Do you not get a code for digital codex with a physical purchase now?

You know the app doesn’t have all the rules in the Codexes, right? It also is missing some books entirely.

You could... buy a physical book and you know, read it? The only "in game" rules missing from the app are the crusade ones, most of which are only relevant pre or post game.

At the end of the day, there's people that don't want physical copies, be it for preference, space, or due to the book being outdated too quickly. It doesn't really matter.

So, for those, the fact that they come with a partial digital set of rules is inconsequential. A digital copy of the book is a service that GW offered before and has decided to stop offering.

Telling people to "just buy the physical book, and use it when the digital rules are lacking" is missing heavily the point.

Go tell music lovers that to be able to download some (no, not all, for those they'll need to play the physical thing) of the songs on a new album they need to buy a vinyl/casette/CD, and see how they react.

 AduroT wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
GW forced me to pirate their books if I wanted to keep playing when they stopped selling digital versions and I had to find others supplying those.

Do you not get a code for digital codex with a physical purchase now?

You know the app doesn’t have all the rules in the Codexes, right? It also is missing some books entirely.

It was a genuine question. It's been a long while since I bought any codex.

Seems odd to offer a digital version and then miss out rules

 Albertorius wrote:
At the end of the day, there's people that don't want physical copies, be it for preference, space, or due to the book being outdated too quickly. It doesn't really matter.

So, for those, the fact that they come with a partial digital set of rules is inconsequential. A digital copy of the book is a service that GW offered before and has decided to stop offering.

Telling people to "just buy the physical book, and use it when the digital rules are lacking" is missing heavily the point.

Go tell music lovers that to be able to download some (no, not all, for those they'll need to play the physical thing) of the songs on a new album they need to buy a vinyl/casette/CD, and see how they react.

I totally agree, but it’s a case of want not need. I also want to be able to buy digital codices, but I’m not going to start claiming that I’m “forced” to pirate.

Spectral Ceramite wrote:
A lot of us do look at other games etc, you have to look at the viability of the game. Like I love the models but if it is going to go out of business soon what is the point in buying??? Like I want to buy Arena Rex, but will give them a few more years and if still around and will buy it.

Ironically, this is why they won't be around in a few years

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
At the end of the day, there's people that don't want physical copies, be it for preference, space, or due to the book being outdated too quickly. It doesn't really matter.

So, for those, the fact that they come with a partial digital set of rules is inconsequential. A digital copy of the book is a service that GW offered before and has decided to stop offering.

Telling people to "just buy the physical book, and use it when the digital rules are lacking" is missing heavily the point.

Go tell music lovers that to be able to download some (no, not all, for those they'll need to play the physical thing) of the songs on a new album they need to buy a vinyl/casette/CD, and see how they react.

I totally agree, but it’s a case of want not need. I also want to be able to buy digital codices, but I’m not going to start claiming that I’m “forced” to pirate.

Are you actually able to buy a digital codex? Not the rules in the app. A pdf/ebook/whatever format.

If not, you are forced to pirate it to get it. There's literally no way to give them money for that.

You are forced because that was an option that they have decided to take away. So now, if you want the rules, you have to buy a physical book. And if you want just the rules in the app (even if not all the rules)... well, you also have to buy a physical book.

And if you want a digital book, well, you can go feth yourself.

 Albertorius wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
At the end of the day, there's people that don't want physical copies, be it for preference, space, or due to the book being outdated too quickly. It doesn't really matter.

So, for those, the fact that they come with a partial digital set of rules is inconsequential. A digital copy of the book is a service that GW offered before and has decided to stop offering.

Telling people to "just buy the physical book, and use it when the digital rules are lacking" is missing heavily the point.

Go tell music lovers that to be able to download some (no, not all, for those they'll need to play the physical thing) of the songs on a new album they need to buy a vinyl/casette/CD, and see how they react.

I totally agree, but it’s a case of want not need. I also want to be able to buy digital codices, but I’m not going to start claiming that I’m “forced” to pirate.

Are you actually able to buy a digital codex? Not the rules in the app. A pdf/ebook/whatever format.

If not, you are forced to pirate it to get it. There's literally no way to give them money for that.

You are forced because that was an option that they have decided to take away. So now, if you want the rules, you have to buy a physical book. And if you want just the rules in the app (even if not all the rules)... well, you also have to buy a physical book.

And if you want a digital book, well, you can go feth yourself.

Or, buy the physical book and take photos/scans for personal use as is your right.

Digital versions of the product are just one way or method of distribution, your options currently are: engage in illegal activity, buy a book to physically use/copy for personal use or not play with the latest rules.

Dudeface wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
At the end of the day, there's people that don't want physical copies, be it for preference, space, or due to the book being outdated too quickly. It doesn't really matter.

So, for those, the fact that they come with a partial digital set of rules is inconsequential. A digital copy of the book is a service that GW offered before and has decided to stop offering.

Telling people to "just buy the physical book, and use it when the digital rules are lacking" is missing heavily the point.

Go tell music lovers that to be able to download some (no, not all, for those they'll need to play the physical thing) of the songs on a new album they need to buy a vinyl/casette/CD, and see how they react.

I totally agree, but it’s a case of want not need. I also want to be able to buy digital codices, but I’m not going to start claiming that I’m “forced” to pirate.

Are you actually able to buy a digital codex? Not the rules in the app. A pdf/ebook/whatever format.

If not, you are forced to pirate it to get it. There's literally no way to give them money for that.

You are forced because that was an option that they have decided to take away. So now, if you want the rules, you have to buy a physical book. And if you want just the rules in the app (even if not all the rules)... well, you also have to buy a physical book.

And if you want a digital book, well, you can go feth yourself.

Or, buy the physical book and take photos/scans for personal use as is your right.

Digital versions of the product are just one way or method of distribution, your options currently are: engage in illegal activity, buy a book to physically use/copy for personal use or not play with the latest rules.

Illegal does not mean immoral, and piracy only became illegal because of big companies.

Still on the fence with the box set, it pretty much comes down to the codex. The models get a deeper discount in the Combat Patrol box and I doubt it will be long before the EC is released separately. So I can either shell out now for the limited cover (I did enjoy my sisters one, even though the book itself was outdated far too soon) or just hold out to buy separately.

I think the box underscores just how high GW prices are at this time. 125 gbp for 13 models, 1 of them a dread is not a very attractive deal imo.

Cronch wrote:
I think the box underscores just how high GW prices are at this time. 125 gbp for 13 models, 1 of them a dread is not a very attractive deal imo.

Especially when you realize what was in the Indomitus box

Cronch wrote:
I think the box underscores just how high GW prices are at this time. 125 gbp for 13 models, 1 of them a dread is not a very attractive deal imo.

I do agree, but I also think it’s a poor choice of models too.

 bullyboy wrote:

Cronch wrote:
I think the box underscores just how high GW prices are at this time. 125 gbp for 13 models, 1 of them a dread is not a very attractive deal imo.

Especially when you realize what was in the Indomitus box

Indomitus pricing is all over the place. The box itself is great value, but you also have the bikes at $60 alone, SM sprue with the bladeguard, chappy, and other elites at $140, the royal court sprue at something like $110, not sure on that one. And Necron warriors where for $5 more you can get the recruit starter and get 5 assault marines and 2 characters.

This isn’t a seasonal Battleforce or starter box, it’s three brand new kits bundled with a slightly discounted older kit and a new codex/Warscroll deck. They’re not intending this to be anything other than what they’re selling it as.

Fascinating how the Redemptor can be considered an "older kit" by Marine players, and simultenously be much newer than most Xenos ranges

 zend wrote:
This isn’t a seasonal Battleforce or starter box, it’s three brand new kits bundled with a slightly discounted older kit and a new codex/Warscroll deck. They’re not intending this to be anything other than what they’re selling it as.

Sure, and the optic is still (to me!) underscoring how expensive the kits are. 13 models for over 100 pounds is not cheap or reasonable, even if you assume it's not meant to be discount set at all.

But it's not 13 models. Its 13 models plus Codex Supplement and Data Cards.
So realistically it's a CP box (£85), plus Supplement (£17.50), plus Cards (£10) for a total of £112.50. Smack on some Ltd Ed shenanigans for the remaining £'s.
Its hardly brilliant but let's not pretend it's just models here.

Cronch wrote:

 zend wrote:
This isn’t a seasonal Battleforce or starter box, it’s three brand new kits bundled with a slightly discounted older kit and a new codex/Warscroll deck. They’re not intending this to be anything other than what they’re selling it as.

Sure, and the optic is still (to me!) underscoring how expensive the kits are. 13 models for over 100 pounds is not cheap or reasonable, even if you assume it's not meant to be discount set at all.

/shrug

Seems in line with industry standards. Infinity packs like Operation Kaldstorm come with 14 minis for 110 GBP before discounts. Less options, much smaller and no hardback book.

It's not cheap, but not unusual (unfortunately?) in this hobby.

And issue was born before. Issue isn't this box is so expensive. Issue is gw models became so expensive. For those this is cheaper.

You don't save money by not buying this. You save by not buying gw models. If you buy gw models might just as well buy this to save cash if you are starting bt army.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Fascinating how the Redemptor can be considered an "older kit" by Marine players, and simultenously be much newer than most Xenos ranges

What I said is as simple and literal as can be. The Redemptor came out before, therefore it’s older.

If you redirected half the time and effort you spend bitching on DakkaDakka into buying and building Xenos kits you might actually get them to make new ones. But until then, they’re going to pander to whatever faction makes them the most money.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Fascinating how the Redemptor can be considered an "older kit" by Marine players, and simultenously be much newer than most Xenos ranges

Yeah, its not like they bundled this with a falcon or vyper. In all reality, marines don't really have old plastic kits that aren't updated so tough to handicap it to an older kit

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Cronch wrote:

 zend wrote:
This isn’t a seasonal Battleforce or starter box, it’s three brand new kits bundled with a slightly discounted older kit and a new codex/Warscroll deck. They’re not intending this to be anything other than what they’re selling it as.

Sure, and the optic is still (to me!) underscoring how expensive the kits are. 13 models for over 100 pounds is not cheap or reasonable, even if you assume it's not meant to be discount set at all.

/shrug

Seems in line with industry standards. Infinity packs like Operation Kaldstorm come with 14 minis for 110 GBP before discounts. Less options, much smaller and no hardback book.

It's not cheap, but not unusual (unfortunately?) in this hobby.

Kaldstrom also comes with heavy-duty cardstock terrain, basically like Mordheim but even thicker (i'm ignoring guff like dice and rules booklets). Better comparison would be to action packs, which contain 13-15 models for 77 pounds before discounts. None of them is as big as a dread, but it's significantly cheaper proposition.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Cronch wrote:

 zend wrote:
This isn’t a seasonal Battleforce or starter box, it’s three brand new kits bundled with a slightly discounted older kit and a new codex/Warscroll deck. They’re not intending this to be anything other than what they’re selling it as.

Sure, and the optic is still (to me!) underscoring how expensive the kits are. 13 models for over 100 pounds is not cheap or reasonable, even if you assume it's not meant to be discount set at all.

/shrug

Seems in line with industry standards. Infinity packs like Operation Kaldstorm come with 14 minis for 110 GBP before discounts. Less options, much smaller and no hardback book.

It's not cheap, but not unusual (unfortunately?) in this hobby.

Sure it is... it only depends on how much you cherry pick. OTOH, if you go compare with other things like Stargrave boxes, well, the deal seems significantly different.

For example, I paid less than half the cost of that box for the three Stargrave boxes plus the Nickstarted freebies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 zend wrote:
This isn’t a seasonal Battleforce or starter box, it’s three brand new kits bundled with a slightly discounted older kit and a new codex/Warscroll deck. They’re not intending this to be anything other than what they’re selling it as.

A bad deal?

 zend wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Fascinating how the Redemptor can be considered an "older kit" by Marine players, and simultenously be much newer than most Xenos ranges

If you redirected half the time and effort you spend bitching on DakkaDakka into buying and building Xenos kits you might actually get them to make new ones. But until then, they’re going to pander to whatever faction makes them the most money.

"Shut up and buy more product!"

 Albertorius wrote:


Sure it is... it only depends on how much you cherry pick. OTOH, if you go compare with other things like Stargrave boxes, well, the deal seems significantly different.

For example, I paid less than half the cost of that box for the three Stargrave boxes plus the Nickstarted freebies.

And the Startgrave stuff is a pretty bad deal compared to Reaper Bones pledges. Even most Zombicide deals. Etc..

Sure.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:


Sure it is... it only depends on how much you cherry pick. OTOH, if you go compare with other things like Stargrave boxes, well, the deal seems significantly different.

For example, I paid less than half the cost of that box for the three Stargrave boxes plus the Nickstarted freebies.

And the Startgrave stuff is a pretty bad deal compared to Reaper Bones pledges. Even most Zombicide deals. Etc..

Sure.

So, it's not really "industry standard" is what you're saying?

Even comparing with the Infinity stuff (which is all metal, mind), we're comparing 119 euros (Infinity) against 155 (GW) for a comparable amount of minis. The Infinity sets have scenery, dice, rules, and everything else needed to play, the BT box has the codex and cards.