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The transfer sheet is just a bit weird. Nothing else to say really.

Cultists of all kind do not get legion traits

Cultist hq squad boosts moral or LD of other cultists

Cultist mutants have 2 different profiles depending on the type of mutant you take

Small mutant s4 t4 ap1
Big mutant s5 t4 ap2

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

I don't know if I'd quite use the word 'proper'. From the pages we've seen it still appears that certain weapons only go with certain torsos.

Why would you think that? They have flat arm joints, exactly like the older kits.

 Crimson wrote:
Why would you think that? They have flat arm joints, exactly like the older kits.

If that's the case, then that's fantastic!

Dudeface wrote:

Cultists of all kind do not get legion traits

Cultist hq squad boosts moral or LD of other cultists

Cultist mutants have 2 different profiles depending on the type of mutant you take

Small mutant s4 t4 ap1
Big mutant s5 t4 ap2

"Small" Mutants and "BIG" Mutants?

*slaps down Eye of Terror campaign book open to the Lost and The Damned army list*

Hellooo!!

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Cultists of all kind do not get legion traits

Cultist hq squad boosts moral or LD of other cultists

Cultist mutants have 2 different profiles depending on the type of mutant you take

Small mutant s4 t4 ap1
Big mutant s5 t4 ap2

"Small" Mutants and "BIG" Mutants?

*slaps down Eye of Terror campaign book open to the Lost and The Damned army list*

Hellooo!!

also good bye, no traits is a dealbreaker, making cultists basically worthless.
IoW once again shafted by gw.

Not Online!!! wrote:
also good bye, no traits is a dealbreaker, making cultists basically worthless.
IoW once again shafted by gw.

But why should non-CSM get the traits? It would be like giving Chapter traits to a Servitor or Regiment traits to Ogryn.
Also, you don't know that Cultists won't get rules like Kroot did in the T'au Codex where you can field an army of them or one of the Legion traits could be like the Dal'Yth Sept and give certain army buffs to your Cultist units. There are loads of ways this can be played by GW and you shouldn't put so much stock in rumours.

 Gert wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
also good bye, no traits is a dealbreaker, making cultists basically worthless.
IoW once again shafted by gw.

But why should non-CSM get the traits? It would be like giving Chapter traits to a Servitor or Regiment traits to Ogryn.
Also, you don't know that Cultists won't get rules like Kroot did in the T'au Codex where you can field an army of them or one of the Legion traits could be like the Dal'Yth Sept and give certain army buffs to your Cultist units. There are loads of ways this can be played by GW and you shouldn't put so much stock in rumours.

why shouldn't cultists, and other chaotic paramilitaries not get traits at all? Cue Alpha legion, IW, f.e.

And literallly worthless in the case as that it mentioned explicitly no traits for Cultists units at all. Basically once again shafting that part of chaos, after that main list being legended.
And no, a +2 morale HQ is NOT capable of replacing a rule layer.

In other news, if it is accurate you won't see cultists, ever, for decency at all. And if you see them they are basically less worth than broodbrothers for GSC which you incidentally ALSO don't see at all, and those don't even require a HQ to get +2 morale btw.

Not Online!!! wrote:
why shouldn't cultists, and other chaotic paramilitaries not get traits at all? Cue Alpha legion, IW, f.e.

And literallly worthless in the case as that it mentioned explicitly no traits for Cultists units at all. Basically once again shafting that part of chaos, after that main list being legended.
And no, a +2 morale HQ is NOT capable of replacing a rule layer.

In other news, if it is accurate you won't see cultists, ever, for decency at all. And if you see them they are basically less worth than broodbrothers for GSC which you incidentally ALSO don't see at all, and those don't even require a HQ to get +2 morale btw.

First, at least come up with an answer instead of just asking another question.
Second, Cultists aren't members of their respective Legions/Warbands, they are auxiliary forces used as force multipliers. What's the difference between a Cultist tied to the Black Legion, Iron Warriors, or Word Bearers? Nothing, they are all cannon fodder for members of the Legion who will do the real damage. It doesn't matter that the Word Bearers use the Cults to infiltrate worlds, when the battle starts they are used for the exact same purpose as every other Cultist. Case in point, the Word Bearers Omnibus. The main character asks who leads the Cultists, the leader steps up and is shot in the face because he looked at the Word Bearer. The Word Bearer then proceeds to force the Cultists to name themselves "Dog" and herds them into the PDF's guns explicitly stating their need to sacrifice themselves to prevent the Legion Brothers from coming to harm. Another example can be found in the novel Apocalypse where the pirates of the system the Word Bearers are invading are conscripted as cannon fodder and distractions to prevent damage to the Legion advances.
The only Legion where Cultists are remotely valued is the Alpha Legion and even then they shouldn't get Legion traits but rather gain other buffs from doctrines or whatever.
You are putting way to much faith in these rumours, you need to take a step back and get some skepticism.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Gert wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
also good bye, no traits is a dealbreaker, making cultists basically worthless.
IoW once again shafted by gw.

But why should non-CSM get the traits? It would be like giving Chapter traits to a Servitor or Regiment traits to Ogryn.
Also, you don't know that Cultists won't get rules like Kroot did in the T'au Codex where you can field an army of them or one of the Legion traits could be like the Dal'Yth Sept and give certain army buffs to your Cultist units. There are loads of ways this can be played by GW and you shouldn't put so much stock in rumours.

why shouldn't cultists, and other chaotic paramilitaries not get traits at all? Cue Alpha legion, IW, f.e.

Because those traits are meant to represent the training, culture, and philosophy of the Legion/Warband they are representing. Something cultists and other auxiliary assets are not allowed to partake in, even in AL or WB for example. Yes, AL train their cult operatives and treat them with a level of trust other legions don't, but those expendable mortal assets are still beneath the inner workings and traditions of their Astartes lords.

Not Online!!! wrote:

And literallly worthless in the case as that it mentioned explicitly no traits for Cultists units at all. Basically once again shafting that part of chaos, after that main list being legended.
And no, a +2 morale HQ is NOT capable of replacing a rule layer.

In other news, if it is accurate you won't see cultists, ever, for decency at all. And if you see them they are basically less worth than broodbrothers for GSC which you incidentally ALSO don't see at all, and those don't even require a HQ to get +2 morale btw.

As a collector of cultists and renegade guard, lover of the lost IA13, and occasional spiky Guard proxy-er; good! Take cultists out of CSM.

I also play/collect CSM and I don't want CSM in my RnH or RnH in my CSM. Give each of them their own codex and let them ally each other. I couldn't care less if it trashes people want for cheap troop fillers.
Both CSM shouldn't have to constantly be justified against a metric of "but if I take this chaff I can fit more overtuned crap in my list" and RnH are a concept that deserves it's own range.

 Jack Flask wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Gert wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
also good bye, no traits is a dealbreaker, making cultists basically worthless.
IoW once again shafted by gw.

But why should non-CSM get the traits? It would be like giving Chapter traits to a Servitor or Regiment traits to Ogryn.
Also, you don't know that Cultists won't get rules like Kroot did in the T'au Codex where you can field an army of them or one of the Legion traits could be like the Dal'Yth Sept and give certain army buffs to your Cultist units. There are loads of ways this can be played by GW and you shouldn't put so much stock in rumours.

why shouldn't cultists, and other chaotic paramilitaries not get traits at all? Cue Alpha legion, IW, f.e.

Because those traits are meant to represent the training, culture, and philosophy of the Legion/Warband they are representing. Something cultists and other auxiliary assets are not allowed to partake in, even in AL or WB for example. Yes, AL train their cult operatives and treat them with a level of trust other legions don't, but those expendable mortal assets are still beneath the inner workings and traditions of their Astartes lords.

AL literally regard their cultists as members of the legion.

Not Online!!! wrote:

And literallly worthless in the case as that it mentioned explicitly no traits for Cultists units at all. Basically once again shafting that part of chaos, after that main list being legended.
And no, a +2 morale HQ is NOT capable of replacing a rule layer.

In other news, if it is accurate you won't see cultists, ever, for decency at all. And if you see them they are basically less worth than broodbrothers for GSC which you incidentally ALSO don't see at all, and those don't even require a HQ to get +2 morale btw.

As a collector of cultists and renegade guard, lover of the lost IA13, and occasional spiky Guard proxy-er; good! Take cultists out of CSM.

I also play/collect CSM and I don't want CSM in my RnH or RnH in my CSM. Give each of them their own codex and let them ally each other. I couldn't care less if it trashes people want for cheap troop fillers.
Both CSM shouldn't have to constantly be justified against a metric of "but if I take this chaff I can fit more overtuned crap in my list" and RnH are a concept that deserves it's own range.

I mean that would be optimal but ain't gonna happen because GW gonna GW, so instead they seemingly threw them in with the CSM codex to fill gaps for throwing things out?!? i don't know, but if accurate your R&H might aswell remain in a box for the forseable future because if that is ALL that that part gets we're basically already saddled with 5 dead slots.

What they do with Cultists isn't important for any potential revitalization of LatD/R&H. Cultists were not a part of either of those lists. What they do with the rumored Traitor Guardsmen is what's important for LatD/R&H.

Impending generalising of chosen weapons apparently, seems very suspicious to me:

"Leak about chosen.

Chosen in the box eldritch omens are still at their 8ed codex datasheet (so dont be surprised by 1w and seeing TH as an option)

In the new book, their base loadout is boltgun & accursed weapon (S+1 ap3 d1; +1a)

For every 5 models, can replace 2 boltguns with 2 pistols

For every 5 models, can replace 2 boltguns with 2 combis

For every 5 models, can replace 1 boltgun for a second accursed weapon.

Chosen have been confirmed to me to be ws/bs 3 and 3a base"

What about melee choices? And since when does a ranged weapon add to Attacks?

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
What about melee choices? And since when does a ranged weapon add to Attacks?

The "Accursed Weapons" are the melee weapons. It's the "Harlequins Treatment". Which weapons you put on the models would be purely cosmetic, as they'd all have the same stats. Expect stratagems for "special rules" if this is true.

it seems that tyranids will come before chaos?

zamerion wrote:
it seems that tyranids will come before chaos?

Confused and annoyed by this. Have new kits chaos guys, but still no book or 2nd wound


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
What about melee choices? And since when does a ranged weapon add to Attacks?

The "Accursed Weapons" are the melee weapons. It's the "Harlequins Treatment". Which weapons you put on the models would be purely cosmetic, as they'd all have the same stats. Expect stratagems for "special rules" if this is true.

On one hand it means I'm not in limbo assembling them if true, and explains the sprues a little better.

On the other it just feels... wrong.

zamerion wrote:
it seems that tyranids will come before chaos?

That's not what it says. All it says is that it's an exciting time for Xenos players because Tyranids are coming.

I wish power axes, mauls and swords were lumped back together into "power weapons" and chain swords and axes into "chain weapons" but if both of these and lightning claws and power fists are all lumped together in one massive category, then that just seems totally wrong...

 Gert wrote:

zamerion wrote:
it seems that tyranids will come before chaos?

That's not what it says. All it says is that it's an exciting time for Xenos players because Tyranids are coming.

"after the craftworlds touch down, there’s something gribbly and chitinous coming."

Sounds sequential to me.

zamerion wrote:it seems that tyranids will come before chaos?

Oh for sake!!!!

Dudeface wrote:

zamerion wrote:
it seems that tyranids will come before chaos?

Confused and annoyed by this. Have new kits chaos guys, but still no book or 2nd wound


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
What about melee choices? And since when does a ranged weapon add to Attacks?

The "Accursed Weapons" are the melee weapons. It's the "Harlequins Treatment". Which weapons you put on the models would be purely cosmetic, as they'd all have the same stats. Expect stratagems for "special rules" if this is true.

On one hand it means I'm not in limbo assembling them if true, and explains the sprues a little better.

On the other it just feels... wrong.

Yeah. Very, very wrong. Including those stats. 3 attacks? Chosen have the same number of attacks as Raptors? Whut?

A semi-reliable source of mine had heard rumors from some of his sources that Tyranids would be coming before CSM but we didn't think much of it because the otherwise reliable rumor guy seemed to indicate that it would be CSM and Eldar before Tyranids or anything else, so uhhh... its looking likely that they are, in fact, coming before CSM.

On the other hand, it seems that Tyranids will be a modest codex + new model(s) release, while CSM seem a larger release with updates to existing kits.

GW rarely does larger releases back to back, and Eldar will be a quite large release.

 Tyran wrote:
On the other hand, it seems that Tyranids will be a modest codex + new model(s) release, while CSM seem a larger release with updates to existing kits.

GW rarely does larger releases back to back, and Eldar will be a quite large release.

Yep that's the flipside.

Eldar and CSM if both are huge model updates back to back would eat into each other sales which is bad for GW. It would also(depending on exact timings) load up one financial quarter so that one quarter gets huge sale spike and then next unless they put up lots of big stuff there as well then would result in big slump. Investors don't like spikes up and down. Steady growth is what they want to see.

So not being back to back at least gives better hope for good miniature releases for them as well. For CSM I'm hoping good luck for happy release! You deserve it

 Crimson wrote:
I wish power axes, mauls and swords were lumped back together into "power weapons" and chain swords and axes into "chain weapons" but if both of these and lightning claws and power fists are all lumped together in one massive category, then that just seems totally wrong...

I sorta agree. I'm fine with just two stats for Powet Weapons, of course being Swords and Axes. Most things can go under one of those umbrellas and then whatever can't will just get its own datasheet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
What about melee choices? And since when does a ranged weapon add to Attacks?

The "Accursed Weapons" are the melee weapons. It's the "Harlequins Treatment". Which weapons you put on the models would be purely cosmetic, as they'd all have the same stats. Expect stratagems for "special rules" if this is true.

In a way, this isn't the worst thing. It means you can have a mishmash of weapons for looks (for those fluff bunnies that mix everything, anyway) but you only need to roll for one profile. If anything, it's brilliant.

The real question will come down to cost, rest of the range options, and access to D2+ weapons.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
What about melee choices? And since when does a ranged weapon add to Attacks?

The "Accursed Weapons" are the melee weapons. It's the "Harlequins Treatment". Which weapons you put on the models would be purely cosmetic, as they'd all have the same stats. Expect stratagems for "special rules" if this is true.

In a way, this isn't the worst thing. It means you can have a mishmash of weapons for looks (for those fluff bunnies that mix everything, anyway) but you only need to roll for one profile. If anything, it's brilliant.

The real question will come down to cost, rest of the range options, and access to D2+ weapons.

If this is true, then your D2+ weapons will be overcharged plasma, melta, and probably a stratagem (ugh) that turns all of your Accursed Weapons into power fists for a turn. Their effectiveness will probably come down to what combinations of Icon + Daemonic Gift + trait you can give them.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
What about melee choices? And since when does a ranged weapon add to Attacks?

The "Accursed Weapons" are the melee weapons. It's the "Harlequins Treatment". Which weapons you put on the models would be purely cosmetic, as they'd all have the same stats. Expect stratagems for "special rules" if this is true.

In a way, this isn't the worst thing. It means you can have a mishmash of weapons for looks (for those fluff bunnies that mix everything, anyway) but you only need to roll for one profile. If anything, it's brilliant.

The real question will come down to cost, rest of the range options, and access to D2+ weapons.

If this is true, then your D2+ weapons will be overcharged plasma, melta, and probably a stratagem (ugh) that turns all of your Accursed Weapons into power fists for a turn. Their effectiveness will probably come down to what combinations of Icon + Daemonic Gift + trait you can give them.

I don't know... It does feel very wrong. It's a whole part of the hobby no ? To customize, to play with and to paint "your dudes". Like with the harly weapons it seem like they didn't even want to bother.
And remember that rumour says that Chaos Knights will come out before us. So it's two releases at least before we finally get our second wound.

These rules could just be the rules that we're getting in the Eldritch Omens box and not what will be represented in the Codex whenever it comes out. GW have done this sort of thing before (remember the rules disparity between the armigers in Forgebane and in the actual Knights codex?)

Until we see an actual datasheet, I'm pretty sus. Lumping lightning claws (that traditionally get more attacks and some form of reroll) with power fists (that get -1 to hit but a lot more damage) is very wrong. The only benefit is for speed of play, and I'd much rather have the options represented so I know which of my Chosen to promote when he kills more enemies and which to turn into a Chaos Spawn when he whiffs all his rolls.

If that Chosen rumour is true I guess it's GW's way to say: "we heard you didn't like the Plague Marine datasheet, so take this instead."

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
What about melee choices? And since when does a ranged weapon add to Attacks?

The "Accursed Weapons" are the melee weapons. It's the "Harlequins Treatment". Which weapons you put on the models would be purely cosmetic, as they'd all have the same stats. Expect stratagems for "special rules" if this is true.

In a way, this isn't the worst thing. It means you can have a mishmash of weapons for looks (for those fluff bunnies that mix everything, anyway) but you only need to roll for one profile. If anything, it's brilliant.

The real question will come down to cost, rest of the range options, and access to D2+ weapons.

If this is true, then your D2+ weapons will be overcharged plasma, melta, and probably a stratagem (ugh) that turns all of your Accursed Weapons into power fists for a turn. Their effectiveness will probably come down to what combinations of Icon + Daemonic Gift + trait you can give them.

I don't know... It does feel very wrong. It's a whole part of the hobby no ? To customize, to play with and to paint "your dudes". Like with the harly weapons it seem like they didn't even want to bother.
And remember that rumour says that Chaos Knights will come out before us. So it's two releases at least before we finally get our second wound.

I don't need a special rule to tell me that my Chosen wielding an axe is a different special guy with a different special weapon than my Chosen wielding a sword. I especially don't need to spend 3 hours resolving the attacks of my super unique super special super squad because each one has been customized with a unique weapon.

Consolidated weapons like harlequins and Chosen (if these are true) are, for me, the best way for them to allow me to fully customize and play with my dudes. I have honestly been *not* building Chosen specifically because I didn't want to play with their messy weapon options, and also didn't want to optimize and take this year's strongest weapons. Chosen are supposed to be unique guys with their own preferred ways of doing things, having all of them wield a chainsword and a plasma gun doesn't show case that at all. Having Kroghas wield a power axe, Chulxiss wield a chainsword, and Trommal wield a thunder hammer but still being able to quickly roll all my attacks at once is perfect.