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Sasori wrote: There were not, and one of the leakers had been leaking stuff for months before even the advent calendar. Which is why it's a bit annoying when we have people dumping on the rumor folks when they come here. Like, we already know to take anything with salt, it's rumors after all.
I'm just asking questions about things that seem weird and what it might mean for other units. I don't really think that's verboten.
It isn't, but it's more interesting to discuss the actual leaked rules. For instance, look at that Night Lords trait compared to the others. How am I supposed to make that work against high leadership factions? C'mon, give me that "Daedalus" positive spin.
Hang on let me go read them, lol.
So, -2LD @ 9" is pretty decent. If that stacked under current rules it would murder so hard - not even considering -1 CA. If spearguy still puts out -1LD then you're 3/4 the way to the -4LD from DG terminators.
I don't know your favorite mark, but +1S and +1AP with another +1AP in doctrine on top of the +1 to wound...like that friggin' murders with basic weapons...
The ability to trigger morale with the -2 when you hit melee will be quite high.
"Spearguy" is Black Legion. As for Marks, I prefer none, because they're Night Lords. But since that doesn't appear to be a viable option again, I'd go "mix-n-match". Nurgle for Havocs (T5 with -1 to wound and auto-wounding 6s with chaincannons, yowza), Khorne for Raptors for the reasons you stated, Slaanesh for Warp Talons (hitting on 2s + fighting first + no fallback + 5 attacks = Bladeguard killers). Still undecided on CSM and Chosen (need to see all of those Veteran Skills first). Sound like a plan?
Yea, but he isn't a replacable keyword so I think you can slide him in...if he's worth it.
Mmm, I do wonder if there is a "no mark" option they missed otherwise it sounds good. I am quite interested in Rubrics that pass the first failed save and go to AP3. If the failed save applies to dreads...oh baby.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/04 03:58:12
drbored wrote: But when the actual kits are less impressive... All I can hope is that I can indeed kitbash the Chosen more easily than some other models. Plague Marines, for example, sometimes only build one or two ways. As long as I can swap in some Havoc, Chaos Marine, or Raptor weapons in among the Chosen, then I can make whatever I want. But, for a kit that's likely going to be 60USD for 5 models, I was hoping for a lot more.
I've never sat down and counted them, but I believe I own roughly 5-6 boxes of Vanguard Vets, 5-6 boxes of Sternguard Vets and between 8-10 boxes of Deathwatch Vets. I bought them all to kit-bash the ever-loving feth out of them, mixing and matching all sorts of crazy gear.
Then I look at the Chosen kit... and... what went wrong?
I'd say three things stick out to me.
1) Chosen are a mixed ranged-melee squad. Compared to Sternguard and Vanguard which focus on having mostly ranged or only melee, Chosen are trying to cram a smorgasbord of sidearms, melee, and dedicated ranged weapons all onto one kit. Deathwatch Vets have a similar experience with one standard layout and two of all other options.
2) Chaos kits, by virtue of the aesthetic GW leaned into, are a lot less space efficient. Compare Chosen with DW Vets, pretty much every part of the Chosen takes up more space. Huge stretched backpacks, horned helmets, extended chainsword bladefronts, a separate cape, a trophy rack, icons, etc.
3) Beyond aesthetic, the Chosen are just "bigger". They have the new upscaled proportions like other Chaos and also DW Vets, but unlikeDW Vets (who have pretty tight stances) 3/5 of the Chosen are in very wide legged stances which take more space. The Chosen are also divided into front and back halves which takes twice as much space. Then you also have the chainaxes, power axe, and power maul which have been upgraded from earlier short hafted depictions to these new medium hafted versions which take up yet more space...
It all just comes together to take an already packed concept and turn it into an overstuffed kit.
Sasori wrote: There were not, and one of the leakers had been leaking stuff for months before even the advent calendar. Which is why it's a bit annoying when we have people dumping on the rumor folks when they come here. Like, we already know to take anything with salt, it's rumors after all.
I'm just asking questions about things that seem weird and what it might mean for other units. I don't really think that's verboten.
It isn't, but it's more interesting to discuss the actual leaked rules. For instance, look at that Night Lords trait compared to the others. How am I supposed to make that work against high leadership factions? C'mon, give me that "Daedalus" positive spin.
Hang on let me go read them, lol.
So, -2LD @ 9" is pretty decent. If that stacked under current rules it would murder so hard - not even considering -1 CA. If spearguy still puts out -1LD then you're 3/4 the way to the -4LD from DG terminators.
I don't know your favorite mark, but +1S and +1AP with another +1AP in doctrine on top of the +1 to wound...like that friggin' murders with basic weapons...
The ability to trigger morale with the -2 when you hit melee will be quite high.
"Spearguy" is Black Legion. As for Marks, I prefer none, because they're Night Lords. But since that doesn't appear to be a viable option again, I'd go "mix-n-match". Nurgle for Havocs (T5 with -1 to wound and auto-wounding 6s with chaincannons, yowza), Khorne for Raptors for the reasons you stated, Slaanesh for Warp Talons (hitting on 2s + fighting first + no fallback + 5 attacks = Bladeguard killers). Still undecided on CSM and Chosen (need to see all of those Veteran Skills first). Sound like a plan?
Yea, but he isn't a replacable keyword so I think you can slide him in...if he's worth it.
Mmm, I do wonder if there is a "no mark" option they missed otherwise it sounds good. I am quite interested in Rubrics that pass the first failed save and go to AP3. If the failed save applies to dreads...oh baby.
Nah, as JNAPRODUCTIONS points out, he'd break the Legion bonuses. The 8th doesn't need some punk that turned Black Legion anyway.
It looks like the best "no mark" can get is +1CA from a Mark of Vengeance. They did mention that "Unmarked units gain some support from stratagems and renegade traits" traits though, so maybe something. I doubt they'll let vehicles have Icons, but you never know.
The only real use for that idiot is kitbashing a chaos lord with jump pack... if that stays a possibility.
And even then, I'm not sure its worth it for the price and the weirdly distinctive bits and bobs (particularly the chest plate and oversized tubes on the jetpack).
It comes down to gw not putting equal sprues for equal $$ in kits. Chaos Terminators are two sprues for $60. Meanwhile, Sword Brethren are three sprues for $55. The Chaos Terminators kit comes with, what? 11 melee weapons? My Cataphractii came with: 10 lighting claws, 5 power fists, 5 chainfists, and a power sword. Why couldn't they get another sprue in the Chaos Terminators box when they could similar models?
It's almost like a society where corporation subsist almost solely thanks to the value extracted from workers doesn't make for the best products .
Seriously, I'd give much to be given a spreadsheet with the actual cost of production (counting designing, casting, transport, distribution, etc...) of our boxes of plastic soldiers and compare it to GW's profits. If we knew the gap, it might make some of their pricing decisions less arbitrary. And it might also make the price of the boxes drop a bit (or the salary of all of GW's employees rise a lot )
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah it's not quite the Havoc situation, where the helmets attach to the backpack, further limiting posing.
But, still, given the type of kit we couldhavegot, it ain't great, and the disappointment is further compounded by what I said earlier: These are meant to be Chosen, FFS!
This is nu-GW though. The age of those types of kits ended with the rise of the Primaris and only a handful of kits released since have challenged that ethos.
Usually, I don't mind it. Sisters of Battle, my main army, has a lot of ways to customize and swap parts. Death Guard really got the short end of the stick. Chaos Marines, even with the new Chosen, don't seem to be that bad, but are definitely on that side of the spectrum.
I know it's tangential to the Chaos discussion, but YES, absolutely flipping awful, on a number of levels. Tiny sprue? Check. Each model only goes together in one specific way? Check. No optional/variant parts whatsoever? Check. So all these things combine to essentially give you a kit that gives you five monopose (and I use that in the strictest sense of the term; fixed poses, no swapping or changing of bits AT ALL) models for an eye-watering THIRTY ONE AND A HALF QUID, with the added bonus that they're INCREDIBLY fragile and fiddly to put together, which has the corollary of making it very difficult indeed to do any chopping and swapping if you feel the inclination to try and convert them for a bit of variety. Hands-down the worst GW kit I've encountered in recent years, and all the more galling given that Flayed Ones are one of my fave Necron units. We hates it.
Gert wrote: If the Flayed Ones were a box of 10 I'd be less inclined to hate it.
For sure – if it had ten different poses it would be twice as good as it is currently, but if for some reason five's the limit, would it really have killed them to make some parts swappable, or even just put in some variant heads?Absolute stinker of a kit, tied with the new Ork Boyz on my dog house.
As usual with GW though, there's no rhyme or reason to any of it – cf the new Ork Kommandos; a similarly niche unit to Flayed Ones in their respective faction, and they get ten guys (plus a squiggling and a grot) with a mind-boggling array of cool options and bitz, which can even be mixed and matched across models. All for five quid more than the pitiful Flayed Ones kit.
Yea, I'm not going to buy the flayed ones, I built 10 of them out of warriors, plasticard and green stuff, and if I ever need more, I'll do the same again. The new kit is terrible value for the money, and I won't support it.
Would the Kommando kit be as versatile if it wasn't released for Kill Team? I could easily see it ending up as monoposed as the other orks kits released at that time.
GaroRobe wrote: Would the Kommando kit be as versatile if it wasn't released for Kill Team? I could easily see it ending up as monoposed as the other orks kits released at that time.
Of course not, and i'd bet it would also be 5 dudes instead of 10 + Squig and Grot.
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
Helbrutes cannot have icons (i am guessing it is the same for daemonic gifts)
Chaos terminator sorcerer now has a familiar
Csm troops can now purchase a book that makes the unit a psychic unit. Also they can have a 2 handed chainaxe option (im asking what it does and the rest of their loadout)
Helbrutes cannot have icons (i am guessing it is the same for daemonic gifts)
Chaos terminator sorcerer now has a familiar
Csm troops can now purchase a book that makes the unit a psychic unit. Also they can have a 2 handed chainaxe option (im asking what it does and the rest of their loadout)
Is the book a MoT only thing or can Nurgle and Slaanesh marks take it too?
Assuming the leaks are accurate and they have the codex, can't the leaker leak the upcoming units? We know new chaos models are coming so they should be in the new codex
GaroRobe wrote: Assuming the leaks are accurate and they have the codex, can't the leaker leak the upcoming units? We know new chaos models are coming so they should be in the new codex
What other units are there, he already leaked the new cultist stuff and the chosen, possessed. All that is missing is bikers, and hes bot willing to give me thst info yet.
Helbrutes cannot have icons (i am guessing it is the same for daemonic gifts)
Chaos terminator sorcerer now has a familiar
Csm troops can now purchase a book that makes the unit a psychic unit. Also they can have a 2 handed chainaxe option (im asking what it does and the rest of their loadout)
Is the book a MoT only thing or can Nurgle and Slaanesh marks take it too?
I am awaiting validation on this but my guess its for any marls apart from khorne.
Automatically Appended Next Post: This is my sources impression, and something mirrored by others on B&C. The book and chainaxe might be a kill team upgrade sprue for the csm vs corsairs box
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/02/04 15:59:30
GaroRobe wrote: Assuming the leaks are accurate and they have the codex, can't the leaker leak the upcoming units? We know new chaos models are coming so they should be in the new codex
What other units are there, he already leaked the new cultist stuff and the chosen, possessed. All that is missing is bikers, and hes bot willing to give me thst info yet.
The original (and so far highly accurate) rumordump mentioned Traitor Guardsmen and Possessed Humans. And new Cultists as well, but I doubt they'll be any different from the ones in the Death Guard and Thousand Sons codexes.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
clockworkchris9 wrote: This is my sources impression, and something mirrored by others on B&C. The book and chainaxe might be a kill team upgrade sprue for the csm vs corsairs box
Well, let's hope it includes a chaincannon. And a combi-weapon for the Champion!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/04 16:02:51
I missed the Cultist stuff. Where did you post that?
"I have traveled trough the Realm of Death and brought back novelty pencils"
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
Oh, somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright;
the band is playing somewhere and somewhere hearts are light,and somewhere men are laughing, and somewhere children shout but there is no joy in Mudville — mighty Casey has struck out.
Helbrutes cannot have icons (i am guessing it is the same for daemonic gifts)
Chaos terminator sorcerer now has a familiar
Csm troops can now purchase a book that makes the unit a psychic unit. Also they can have a 2 handed chainaxe option (im asking what it does and the rest of their loadout)
Now, that is super intreasting. Being able to turna squad into a Psyker has some intreating implications with the new CA missions.
What about the Human style possesed or Mutants from that one rumor? Is there any info on those?
Couldn't they already do that ? There's even a little guy on the sprue.
They turned it into a stratagem. Hey, wait! Could they actually be turning something that went from being a piece of wargear to being a stratagem back into a piece of wargear? Holy crap! We got one back!
chaincannon. And a combi-weapon for the Champion! 
4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
