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Not Online!!! wrote:


you give them for things you find decent, aka the decent 30k ruleset, and cut them where they are not doing decent, like the new CSM codex. That is far more productive.
.

Bro, it all goes in the same kitty. You give them nothing. This utter abortion of a codex deserves no praise whatsoever. If I ever come into possession of one I will piss on it to make sure the stink of my contempt runs foetid through every page.

 Grimtuff wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:


you give them for things you find decent, aka the decent 30k ruleset, and cut them where they are not doing decent, like the new CSM codex. That is far more productive.
.

Bro, it all goes in the same kitty. You give them nothing. This utter abortion of a codex deserves no praise whatsoever. If I ever come into possession of one I will piss on it to make sure the stink of my contempt runs foetid through every page.

Hmm, I'm not sure which god is speaking there, if you'd said crap on it - nurgle, if you'd said you'd use it.... excitedly - slaanesh, destroy it - khorne, scribble all over it, make amendments and post it back - Tzeentch. Piss though, maybe chaos undivided?

Dudeface wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:


you give them for things you find decent, aka the decent 30k ruleset, and cut them where they are not doing decent, like the new CSM codex. That is far more productive.
.

Bro, it all goes in the same kitty. You give them nothing. This utter abortion of a codex deserves no praise whatsoever. If I ever come into possession of one I will piss on it to make sure the stink of my contempt runs foetid through every page.

Hmm, I'm not sure which god is speaking there, if you'd said crap on it - nurgle, if you'd said you'd use it.... excitedly - slaanesh, destroy it - khorne, scribble all over it, make amendments and post it back - Tzeentch. Piss though, maybe chaos undivided?

well, to me it seems non alone is the solution to the problem this clusterfeth of a codex is.

So his suggestion being said undivided attention may do the trick.

chances are however that the only thing that will be happening is a legion supplement style entry this time only legal for 3 months.

Dudeface wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:


you give them for things you find decent, aka the decent 30k ruleset, and cut them where they are not doing decent, like the new CSM codex. That is far more productive.
.

Bro, it all goes in the same kitty. You give them nothing. This utter abortion of a codex deserves no praise whatsoever. If I ever come into possession of one I will piss on it to make sure the stink of my contempt runs foetid through every page.

Hmm, I'm not sure which god is speaking there, if you'd said crap on it - nurgle, if you'd said you'd use it.... excitedly - slaanesh, destroy it - khorne, scribble all over it, make amendments and post it back - Tzeentch. Piss though, maybe chaos undivided?

The Chaos Gods move in mysterious ways.

Seriously though, this book is not worth anyone's time. If that is the contempt GW are showing for CSMs and their players then you have to respond in kind.

Dudeface wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:


you give them for things you find decent, aka the decent 30k ruleset, and cut them where they are not doing decent, like the new CSM codex. That is far more productive.
.

Bro, it all goes in the same kitty. You give them nothing. This utter abortion of a codex deserves no praise whatsoever. If I ever come into possession of one I will piss on it to make sure the stink of my contempt runs foetid through every page.

Hmm, I'm not sure which god is speaking there, if you'd said crap on it - nurgle, if you'd said you'd use it.... excitedly - slaanesh, destroy it - khorne, scribble all over it, make amendments and post it back - Tzeentch. Piss though, maybe chaos undivided?

Nah, Malal.

So can someone give a summary of why the CSM is bad? I mean, I was kind of expecting it because CSM have not had a decent codex since about...3.5, but how did GW done goofed this time?

 Grimtuff wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:


you give them for things you find decent, aka the decent 30k ruleset, and cut them where they are not doing decent, like the new CSM codex. That is far more productive.
.

Bro, it all goes in the same kitty. You give them nothing. This utter abortion of a codex deserves no praise whatsoever. If I ever come into possession of one I will piss on it to make sure the stink of my contempt runs foetid through every page.

Hmm, I'm not sure which god is speaking there, if you'd said crap on it - nurgle, if you'd said you'd use it.... excitedly - slaanesh, destroy it - khorne, scribble all over it, make amendments and post it back - Tzeentch. Piss though, maybe chaos undivided?

The Chaos Gods move in mysterious ways.

Seriously though, this book is not worth anyone's time. If that is the contempt GW are showing for CSMs and their players then you have to respond in kind.

In all honesty, I've been saving for the chaos release, passed on the knights box in prep for this but the most I might get is the possessed so I have a legal sized unit (due to having the 2 greater already), but that's it. In honesty I'm enjoying Sigmar more atm and a long-delayed want to get into titanicus, either feels a better use of time and money.

Since everyone is spending pages kicking the codex over and over I assume there have been no more leaks?

 Grimtuff wrote:


Seriously though, this book is not worth anyone's time. If that is the contempt GW are showing for CSMs and their players then you have to respond in kind.

Understandable, as will i, and i agree that it is not worth anyones time, certainly not for the price GW asks nowadays for a codex that is up to date maybee 3 months.

And i think a lot of CSM players will just either sit it out... as we do since 2 years in 9th (or more if you count the wound debacle.) or jump ship to better rulesets including heresy or other games and companies entirely.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Since everyone is spending pages kicking the codex over and over I assume there have been no more leaks?

isn't there a link with the full dex somewhere here in this very thread?

No because it doesn't show Chaos Lords, Sorcerors, Dark Apostles or even all the Legion rules.

It's a matter of time now though, people are clearly in possession of them and have itchy trigger fingers, worst case we need to wait until Saturday. It'll be interesting how honest the various reviews will be, or rather if anyone has conflicting opinions.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
*snippy*

So can someone give a summary of why the CSM is bad? I mean, I was kind of expecting it because CSM have not had a decent codex since about...3.5, but how did GW done goofed this time?

Objectively, the codex is fine from a purely power level perspective - there are some strong things in there and if you are only interested in tourney results this codex looks stronger than the last and will likely have a better average win rate.

Subjectively it stinks. Cult troops other than noise marines are cut. Character customisation is cut. Chosen and Terminators have a fraction of their old options. Unit datasheets have the awesome combo of inconsistency and more restrictive selections than other codices before this.

Some lovely inconsistencies/a WYSIWYG nightmare:

Especially Chosen are an annoyance. Their special rule that allows them to profit from all wantons is useless bs as you will seldom come to profit from it. And why is this rule gated behind a restriction anyway? They cannot profile from Wanton Destruction under any circumstance. Their baseline profile is a joke, legionaries with +1W and Ld for 7 pts more. Accursed Weapons are ridiculous in a meta in which D2-3 is required to kill anything reliably. They even removed the ,get an additional trait‘ rule from the playtest version.

They should have had better bolter profiles with AP -2 at least, similar to sternguard vets or something…

I have not read any of the leaks. Is there somewhere that is a collation of all the things that have been leaked/ announced?

Dudeface wrote:
It's a matter of time now though, people are clearly in possession of them and have itchy trigger fingers, worst case we need to wait until Saturday. It'll be interesting how honest the various reviews will be, or rather if anyone has conflicting opinions.

I expect a fully or largely positive review from people sent the codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

charles_the_dead_lizzard wrote:
Especially Chosen are an annoyance. Their special rule that allows them to profit from all wantons is useless bs as you will seldom come to profit from it. And why is this rule gated behind a restriction anyway? They cannot profile from Wanton Destruction under any circumstance. Their baseline profile is a joke, legionaries with +1W and Ld for 7 pts more. Accursed Weapons are ridiculous in a meta in which D2-3 is required to kill anything reliably. They even removed the ,get an additional trait‘ rule from the playtest version.

They should have had better bolter profiles with AP -2 at least, similar to sternguard vets or something…

They shoud've had 'Chosen Firearms', yeah.

I think it is impressive that this codex is so bad, so utterly poor, that no one is trying to defend it. There is no real 'silver lining'.

Also this is (YET AGAIN) another place where 3.5 ed did things better. Chosen or Terminators? Nah - they're the same unit - you can even mix them. You know - a cool, creative approach which allowed you to represent both rag-tag veterans or full kill teams of Terminators.

Not Online!!! wrote:
there is so much wrong with that unit entry...

Must have big muties mixed with small.

Random limitation on big muties.

Mutants /13 msu? oof..

It's probably all down to the models in the box. The mutants are probably 5 to a box (the exact 5 we've seen already) and the mutant mutants are 3 to a box (again, the exact 3 we've been shown). And I'd bet money that there's zero variation with those models.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

I've put my stuff up for sale in our local group and will likely start work on a second Legion for HH, a ruleset that actually lets me have fun with loadouts of wargear...

Yeah! That'll show them! Give GW money!

What do people not understand here? You give them nothing. It is the only language GW understand.

So basically you say GW needs to get idea that nothing they produce whatsover is worth anything...So basically you are saying "rather than produce good stuff just close up operation".

You make zero sense.

[ ] surprised.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimtuff wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:


you give them for things you find decent, aka the decent 30k ruleset, and cut them where they are not doing decent, like the new CSM codex. That is far more productive.
.

Bro, it all goes in the same kitty. You give them nothing. This utter abortion of a codex deserves no praise whatsoever. If I ever come into possession of one I will piss on it to make sure the stink of my contempt runs foetid through every page.

So you show your opinion regarding the codex.

You realize right your way GW wouldn't have any idea your problem is with the CSM codex?

Either your lack of understanding of meaning of your actions is zero or your problem isn't with CSM codex but GW as a whole. At which point stop pretending(one could even say lying) about your motives.

I initially had the same reaction on Chosen - but I don't think they are that bad really. 7 points buys you an extra wound, and effectively a power sword with +1 attack. +/- a point that's probably about right. Even though they are 1 damage they math out reasonably into a range of targets once getting those exploding 6s to hit. You just don't want to be punching tanks.

I agree though that they should have started with the Chosen ability unlocked, rather than needing to kill an opposing unit. There probably is a world where you can use some combi-meltas to blow something up turn 2, then charge in with Wanton Slaughter up. But it seems a bit contrived.

Whether 145 points for say 5 guys, 2 combi-meltas, and a guy with 2 accursed weapons (because really the bolters are pointless) is a good price I guess is open to debate. It would be better if it was 10 points less, but I'm not sure its changing much about how the unit operates. Further buffs etc might be worth it but I don't think we've had visual confirmation yet.

I'll repeat a question that I posted earlier but got no response about. Does anyone know the cost of the tome that allows Legionaire units to use psychic powers? It's not listed in the Legionaire point cost (at least not that I could read).

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I'll repeat a question that I posted earlier but got no response about. Does anyone know the cost of the tome that allows Legionaire units to use psychic powers? It's not listed in the Legionaire point cost (at least not that I could read).

20 points. Its top of the list of options?

I've seen some suggestions that this book was due out some time ago as it's also missing traitor guard, and misses out some of the 40k options the new daemon prince has (it's the old model in the book).

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
That's what I suspected. But, we obviously can't expect the same rules consideration as Eldar for CSM. Much less for the "Scary" Legion. Not from the current 40k rules team. 30k, though, that's a different story. Those guys get the Legions, including the 8th.

Imagine if they had written this book. If only.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Quick question- I see under Legionaires that they can take some kind on tome to make the unit Psychic but I don't see any point cost for the tome. So is the tome a free upgrade or am I missing something?

It's +20 points for the squad. Balefire Tome. First option, top of the list.

You got an answer the first time Leo_the_Rat.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/20/burn-down-the-galaxy-in-a-fit-of-wanton-destruction-with-codex-chaos-space-marines/



Should be a note you can't take two flamers in a standard CSM squad.

This sounds very disappointing. Our worst Codex in a while. The statlines and special rules are not so bad, some are even great, but the messed up and restrictive wargear options ruin the whole thing.

I'll be sticking to 8th then, with some homebrew rules thrown in. Seeing this new codex makes me glad I recently wrote a shed-load of homebrew Chaos supplement rules for 8th ed codex. I put the project aside when this new codex was announced, because I knew that the rules they were built upon would be invalidated, but now I just don't care what GW are doing with chaos. So long as the people I game with are okay with it, I'll be ignoring GW's insultingly poor "updates"

 Tastyfish wrote:
I've seen some suggestions that this book was due out some time ago as it's also missing traitor guard, and misses out some of the 40k options the new daemon prince has (it's the old model in the book).

The way boxes with just models are impacted by delays (like the Genestealer combat patrol as the latest example) my guess is they're having serious issues getting their boxes printed and shipped from China right now. In my opinion if everything had gone to GW's plan the codex would have come in March on the heels of the Chaos Marine Kill Team.

A codex wide special rule. That's the weirdest way to change specific weapon profiles.

---
So, Wanton <blah> is just the current version of Death to the False Emperor, but affects shooting AND requires weapon type vs game turn accounting. Fun.

----
The fluff for both of these things is so terrible.

'Unencumbered by stultifying doctrines, they mimic doctrines.'
Also their flamers are extra burny, because reasons.

*Le sigh*

Exploding 6 analogues of Marine Doctrines.

Chaos is saved!

 blood reaper wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/20/burn-down-the-galaxy-in-a-fit-of-wanton-destruction-with-codex-chaos-space-marines/



Should be a note you can't take two flamers in a standard CSM squad.

I feel like this rule was taken from somewhere else after the fluff section had been written and they changed the rule name to force it to fit.

 Sim-Life wrote:


I feel like this rule was taken from somewhere else after the fluff section had been written and they changed the rule name to force it to fit.

It's a hack to give flamer weapons extra hits because they can't benefit from the exploding 6 rules.

Ah yes the "lets big up the chaos release and talk about some key units, here's a stock photo of them"
Uses the old now oop start collecting photo, containing 3 units that can't be purchased
"High five marketing team!"
Don't change GW