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 Sim-Life wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

It feels like in the Post-Kirby era GW has been throwing a lot of stuff at the wall and some sticks, some doesn't.

Unless you are CSM, then they repeat the same thing that isn't working for the playerbase of the faction since 4th.

There is also nothing wrong with throwing things at a wall and see what sticks, problem is however, that doing so without actually communicating with your custommer base is bound to lead to some thrown in windows instead of something that sticks.

Also some of the recent stuff is just blatant nostalgia baiting, like gsc and squats, which tbh i liked the old version more then these in regards to squats, GSC they did do propperly atleast.

I agree there isn't anything wrong with experimenting with what works and what doesn't. Warhammer isn't generally a flash-in-the-pan hobby where you assemble a 2000pts army and you're done forever, most of us are in this for the long haul so waiting a few years for stuff to improve is par for the course. But GW has a problem where when the throw stuff things DO stick to the wall, then they scrape it off, put it in the bin, clean the wall and the throw more things at it.

Well yeah. Although, as Karol may have hinted at once or twice; it is a little sucky if you get into Warhammer as a new player, buy a load of stuff you think looks cool, only to find it's rubbish - and then get told, yeah, but give it 3 years or so and it might get better.

I mean, I (re)started at the start of 6th edition - and my CSMs have yet to be a great option. Will see what happens with this and the World Eaters book, but I'm starting to get rather jaded now.

Chaos Landraiders are nuts, love the buff although I would have played mine anyway because I love the Model.

T9 (buffable to 10), 4 LasCannon Shots that explode Turn 1, a heavy bolter to kill some pesky Marines from an objective. All this while carrying some Legionaries or Chosen to an Objective.

So why is the giant feth-off huge titanic Daemon Engine T8 when the Land Raider is T9?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So why is the giant feth-off huge titanic Daemon Engine T8 when the Land Raider is T9?

inferior metal.

one is of glorius stolen imperial makeing and the other produced in the warp by underpaid slave labour....


wait. thats not how it works but GW thinks so.


However atleast it got buffed for once which is a minor wonder?

It seems kinda sus to me but I hope its true.

Sadly, I know that the the Land Raider Achilles I bought for my Thousand Sons army probably won't see the benefits of this :( Hell, Thousand Sons (and Death Guard) land raiders probably won't be updated at all I'm guessing.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
They've finally broken the T8 barrier!

I look forward to Loyalist Land Raiders being T10.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So why is the giant feth-off huge titanic Daemon Engine T8 when the Land Raider is T9?

I'm not sure T9 on a melee unit would be good for the game. Almost every army has S9+ ranged weapons that can hit at BS, in combat though some armies do not even get to S8 and it is common for those weapons to have a -1 to hit built in - fighting a LoS at T9 would be like Ork shooting but without ever being able to get the weight of numbers in.

T9 tanks with enhanced guns though I can get behind, especially when they often cost the equivalent of 2 heavy weapon infantry squads.

H.B.M.C. wrote:So why is the giant feth-off huge titanic Daemon Engine T8 when the Land Raider is T9?

Same reason that Land Raiders used to be 14/14/14 and the KLOS was 13/13/11? "Big" doesn't necessarily mean "well armoured".

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
They've finally broken the T8 barrier!

I look forward to Loyalist Land Raiders being T10.

Nah. They'll save that for the new "Repulsonator".

Edit: Actually, the weird thing, IMO, is that the KLOS gets the "move over infantry" rule. That makes sense for giant walkers like Knights, but the KLOS is a tracked vehicle. Shouldn't it flatten anything that it moves over?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So why is the giant feth-off huge titanic Daemon Engine T8 when the Land Raider is T9?

This is honestly easy to explain: A Knight has a huge load of weakpoints (Joints, thin legs and so on) and a thinner armour. A Land Raider is a Box of armour on Tracks. Easy to build and highly efficient. There is a reason why we see tanks in real life but no mechs.

I hope they update the Monolith to be T9. Seeing the Monolith having less toughness than a Land Raider just feels wrong, especially when it's a LoW now for some silly reason. It's like GW really hates the Monolith for some reason.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
They've finally broken the T8 barrier!

I look forward to Loyalist Land Raiders being T10.

Yeah, well. I'm taking it as soft confirmation of Loyalist 2.0 codex within ~6 months. Pad to 9 for continued disaster distribution.
With HH datasheets.

Voss wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
They've finally broken the T8 barrier!

I look forward to Loyalist Land Raiders being T10.

Yeah, well. I'm taking it as soft confirmation of Loyalist 2.0 codex within ~6 months. Pad to 9 for continued disaster distribution.
With HH datasheets.

Updates for Land Raiders and any other "shared" units won't take that long. They'll errata them. They're not going to allow CSM to have anything better than loyalists for one minute.

Warp Talons not being core is making me very nervous. If the demonic units cannot be dedicated to a demonic god I'm going to be so upset. So far all core and character units (except the daemon prince) have had the <chaos undivided> keyword. According to the leaks, only core and characters could take Mark's, but it also specifically said that warp talons and possessed could take Mark's.

I'm hoping that, like the DP, daemonkin are just required to take a mark and that extra undivided keyword is not necessary.

Raulengrin wrote:
Warp Talons not being core is making me very nervous. If the demonic units cannot be dedicated to a demonic god I'm going to be so upset. So far all core and character units (except the daemon prince) have had the <chaos undivided> keyword. According to the leaks, only core and characters could take Mark's, but it also specifically said that warp talons and possessed could take Mark's.

I'm hoping that, like the DP, daemonkin are just required to take a mark and that extra undivided keyword is not necessary.

How do you know that Warp Talons aren't CORE? Has the datasheet been leaked?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Raulengrin wrote:
Warp Talons not being core is making me very nervous. If the demonic units cannot be dedicated to a demonic god I'm going to be so upset. So far all core and character units (except the daemon prince) have had the <chaos undivided> keyword. According to the leaks, only core and characters could take Mark's, but it also specifically said that warp talons and possessed could take Mark's.

I'm hoping that, like the DP, daemonkin are just required to take a mark and that extra undivided keyword is not necessary.

How do you know that Warp Talons aren't CORE? Has the datasheet been leaked?

Yes, they're in the link in the thread OP

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Raulengrin wrote:
Warp Talons not being core is making me very nervous. If the demonic units cannot be dedicated to a demonic god I'm going to be so upset. So far all core and character units (except the daemon prince) have had the <chaos undivided> keyword. According to the leaks, only core and characters could take Mark's, but it also specifically said that warp talons and possessed could take Mark's.

I'm hoping that, like the DP, daemonkin are just required to take a mark and that extra undivided keyword is not necessary.

How do you know that Warp Talons aren't CORE? Has the datasheet been leaked?

It has! Along with a few others.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/vhbexn/csm_leaks_more_datasheets_t9_land_raider/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

"The Raptor Champion's Astartes chainsword can be replaced with one of the following: 1 power sword, 1 powerfist."



I love how the Master of Possession can't sacrifice Cultists... that makes sense.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"The Raptor Champion's Astartes chainsword can be replaced with one of the following: 1 power sword, 1 powerfist."

What, options? instead of an upgrade to accursed weapons? that is actually still a customizable champion.


ok sarcasm off, are we really surprised?

Not Online!!! wrote:
What, options? instead of an upgrade to accursed weapons? that is actually still a customizable champion.

Legionnaire Squad: You can take two special weapons in a squad of 10, but you can't take two of the same weapon, because the kit only has one of each weapon.

Raptor Squad: You can take two special weapons of any type, even though the kit only has one of each type, and you can't take Lightning Claws on the Champ, even though the kit has 5 sets.

Consistency!!!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"The Raptor Champion's Astartes chainsword can be replaced with one of the following: 1 power sword, 1 powerfist."



I love how the Master of Possession can't sacrifice Cultists... that makes sense.

They've, actually removed lightning claws from everything in the codex except for Warp Talons, Terminator Lords, and Harkon, haven't they? Why? Why can't we have lightning claws?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
What, options? instead of an upgrade to accursed weapons? that is actually still a customizable champion.

Legionnaire Squad: You can take two special weapons in a squad of 10, but you can't take two of the same weapon, because the kit only has one of each weapon.

Raptor Squad: You can take two special weapons of any type, even though the kit only has one of each type, and you can't take Lightning Claws on the Champ, even though the kit has 5 sets.

Consistency!!!

are we taking bets that there is a new kit without the Claws for the Champ?

Not even Warp Talons have Lightning Claws anymore. They have "Warp Talons".

This is like the Tyranid Codex, where we have:

Carnifex Scything Talons
Hormagaunt Talons
Massive Scything Talons
Thornback Scything Talons
Monstrous Scything Talons
Screamerkiller Talons
Scything Talons
Trygon Scything Talons
Mawloc Scything Talons
Tyrant Talons

One of those above I made up, just to illustrate the absurdity a little further.

And there's no new Raptor kit. What you have to accept is that (now) the Raptor kit doesn't actually have any lightning claws in it, because those are 'Warp Claws'. This entirely not a new thing and it's always been that way. We've always been at war with Eastasia.

 kodos wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
What, options? instead of an upgrade to accursed weapons? that is actually still a customizable champion.

Legionnaire Squad: You can take two special weapons in a squad of 10, but you can't take two of the same weapon, because the kit only has one of each weapon.

Raptor Squad: You can take two special weapons of any type, even though the kit only has one of each type, and you can't take Lightning Claws on the Champ, even though the kit has 5 sets.

Consistency!!!

are we taking bets that there is a new kit without the Claws for the Champ?

No. Nothing can have lighting claws besides Warp Talons, Harkon, and Terminator Lords. Nothing else. They're not in any of the unit prices. Power swords, power mauls, power axes, "Tainted" chainaxes, power fists. They're all there. But nothing has a price for lighting claws. They've removed that one option, even from a unit with 10 of them in the kit. Why? Why keep all of those other weapons, whether their in the kit or not, but remove lighting claws?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
What, options? instead of an upgrade to accursed weapons? that is actually still a customizable champion.

Legionnaire Squad: You can take two special weapons in a squad of 10, but you can't take two of the same weapon, because the kit only has one of each weapon.

Raptor Squad: You can take two special weapons of any type, even though the kit only has one of each type, and you can't take Lightning Claws on the Champ, even though the kit has 5 sets.

Consistency!!!

requires someone that is a bit of a stickler and time, which costs money.

to me this codex screams phoned in, cut cost and time saveing to make space for the other new codices that will show up until 10th.

Let's go one further:

Legionnaire Squad: You can take two special weapons in a squad of 10, but you can't take two of the same weapon, because the kit only has one of each weapon.

Raptor Squad: You can take two special weapons of any type, even though the kit only has one of each type, and you can't take Lightning Claws on the Champ, even though the kit has 5 sets. He can take a power fist though.

Chosen Squad: You can take 2 Combi-Weapons per 5, and these can be any type. You can take power swords, axes, mauls and even lightning claws, but these aren't any of those weapons. You can't take power fists though, even though that's in the kit.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What you have to accept is that (now) the Raptor kit doesn't actually have any lightning claws in it, because those are 'Warp Claws'. This entirely not a new thing and it's always been that way. We've always been at way with Eastasia.

you know, at least know I understand why some people have a problem with the new Marauders from Mantic
as they use the same claw-weapon in the sprue for claws and talons in the rules
(better said, the unit get the option to buy standard claws or improved ones and people complained that the box only comes with one)

get it now, every option need to be its own weapon on the sprue, you cannot just use Warp Claws as Lightning Claws, that is impossible

You are of course 100% correct. It is simply impossible - impossible, I tell you - to use "Warp Claws" as "Lightning Claws".

On the other hand, you can use Lightning Claws, Power Swords, Power Axes, Chain Axes, and Power Mauls as Accursed Weapons. And also as actual Lightning Claws, actual Power Swords, actual Power Axes, actual Chain Axes, and also Chainweapons, and also Cursed Chainaxes for some reason, and actual Power Mauls. Depending on who's holding the weapon and, presumably, what phase the moon is currently in.

This is totally consistent and not at all confusing.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Let's go one further:

Legionnaire Squad: You can take two special weapons in a squad of 10, but you can't take two of the same weapon, because the kit only has one of each weapon.

Raptor Squad: You can take two special weapons of any type, even though the kit only has one of each type, and you can't take Lightning Claws on the Champ, even though the kit has 5 sets. He can take a power fist though.

Chosen Squad: You can take 2 Combi-Weapons per 5, and these can be any type. You can take power swords, axes, mauls and even lightning claws, but these aren't any of those weapons. You can't take power fists though, even though that's in the kit.

again that would require something , like , you know a certain job that was quite common in journalism aswell as in magazins.. what are they called again? Editor?

i agree it makes no sense, just as NMNR makes no sense and even less sense in regards to "not powerfist accursed weapon chosen" in regards to WYSIWYG, which is ultimativly horrendus for a wargame in which minis should kinda provide information on the state of the battle....

as it stands either this book will get a substantial day 1 FAQ or be probably the next 4th edition level csm dex disaster.

if i were a gambler i'd bet on the later, day 1 FAQ is only something loyalists get, like kratii , because picket fences are obligatory for chaos tanks and the warpsmiths didn't grow enough of them to slap on the old kratii as of yet.

Not Online!!! wrote:
again that would require something , like , you know a certain job that was quite common in journalism aswell as in magazins.. what are they called again? Editor?

no chance the editor would spot that as a mistake unless he played Chaos Space Marines before, or has deep knowledge of the game in general

Editior: Champ does only get option from the box
looks up box content: no lightning claw mentioned, everything is fine

hence again the problem that those who write the stuff don't actually play the game

 kodos wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
again that would require something , like , you know a certain job that was quite common in journalism aswell as in magazins.. what are they called again? Editor?

no chance the editor would spot that as a mistake unless he played Chaos Space Marines before, or has deep knowledge of the game in general

Editior: Champ does only get option from the box
looks up box content: no lightning claw mentioned, everything is fine

hence again the problem that those who write the stuff don't actually play the game

or you know, what is more likely, he or she or whatever could also take a gander and look at the file of the 8th edition 2.0 codex to check all the sheets and data and changes, but they couldn't seemingly be bothered to do that if there even exists such a position in GW at all. no playing the army requried there for consistency.

Because if that would have been the case, the dex would've been atleast consistent, which it isn't somehow, which is were for me the whole absurdity comes from.