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What I wonder is - what wants GW with the Game?

Rules are over and over bloated like a rotten cadaver but Army List options are limited like a joke... Killteam 2nd Edition is an unreasonable demand and a crime on army build.

I fear 10th Edition will be a devolution to very very basic core rules and very limited options.

I remember thinking 5th Edition was the worst edition...

Glad that I have 2 Iron Warrior Vindicators ready for a Crusade right when this is released

 bullyboy wrote:
Glad that I have 2 Iron Warrior Vindicators ready for a Crusade right when this is released

D3+3 shots is huge. It means Battlesuit units will take 6 shots instead of min 3 most of the time. Spicy.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Glad that I have 2 Iron Warrior Vindicators ready for a Crusade right when this is released

D3+3 shots is huge. It means Battlesuit units will take 6 shots instead of min 3 most of the time. Spicy.

Six shots one in three times.

Blast only helps a d3+3 shot weapon at 11+ models.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Glad that I have 2 Iron Warrior Vindicators ready for a Crusade right when this is released

D3+3 shots is huge. It means Battlesuit units will take 6 shots instead of min 3 most of the time. Spicy.

Six shots one in three times.

Blast only helps a d3+3 shot weapon at 11+ models.

Oh, right. I had to go back and read it since I haven't seen D3+3 shots in the wild. Still, min 4 is pretty great.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

For example now that I know for sure that the Raptor Champion can't even access the melee weapon's list I'm rather frustrated at that choice when Loyalists get to have upgrade packs and wider access to melee weapons on their unit leaders.

Should have bought a protagonist faction, sucker /s

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Glad that I have 2 Iron Warrior Vindicators ready for a Crusade right when this is released

D3+3 shots is huge. It means Battlesuit units will take 6 shots instead of min 3 most of the time. Spicy.

Six shots one in three times.

Blast only helps a d3+3 shot weapon at 11+ models.

Oh, right. I had to go back and read it since I haven't seen D3+3 shots in the wild. Still, min 4 is pretty great.

and then they pass everything to the Drones LOL

EviscerationPlague wrote:
and then they pass everything to the Drones LOL

Yea I usually strip invulns and hit 'em with smites then scarabs.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
and then they pass everything to the Drones LOL

Yea I usually strip invulns and hit 'em with smites then scarabs.

I'm assuming you're referring to Thousand Sons?

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
and then they pass everything to the Drones LOL

Yea I usually strip invulns and hit 'em with smites then scarabs.

I'm assuming you're referring to Thousand Sons?

Yea - here's hoping the changes ripple through.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
For example now that I know for sure that the Raptor Champion can't even access the melee weapon's list I'm rather frustrated at that choice when Loyalists get to have upgrade packs and wider access to melee weapons on their unit leaders.

By "loyalists" you mean primaris who literally can't pick up a single melee weapon option outside of Intercessor sergeants? These ones? "Upgrade packs" like the recent Infiltrator one that STILL didn't fix idiotic lack of any melee punch whatsoever? These packs?

Because I'll need to play world's tiniest violin here as the most "limited" CSM unit still has vastly more melee options than literally entire primaris chapter

 Daedalus81 wrote:
They're still lightning claws. GW just didn't want to explicitly treat them as such for some reason.

They are mutated and half-demon limbs, much like the feet, arms, and heads of Warp Talons. They just don't fit on Raptor bodies as these are supposed to be still regular CSM. But it's funny to watch the 'muh lore' crowd who insisted Night Lords are totes not chaos instantly dump any pretense said lore matters and start loudly whining they can't WAAAC with bits that pee all over said lore

 Irbis wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
For example now that I know for sure that the Raptor Champion can't even access the melee weapon's list I'm rather frustrated at that choice when Loyalists get to have upgrade packs and wider access to melee weapons on their unit leaders.

By "loyalists" you mean primaris who literally can't pick up a single melee weapon option outside of Intercessor sergeants? These ones? "Upgrade packs" like the recent Infiltrator one that STILL didn't fix idiotic lack of any melee punch whatsoever? These packs?

Because I'll need to play world's tiniest violin here as the most "limited" CSM unit still has vastly more melee options than literally entire primaris chapter

 Daedalus81 wrote:
They're still lightning claws. GW just didn't want to explicitly treat them as such for some reason.

They are mutated and half-demon limbs, much like the feet, arms, and heads of Warp Talons. They just don't fit on Raptor bodies as these are supposed to be still regular CSM. But it's funny to watch the 'muh lore' crowd who insisted Night Lords are totes not chaos instantly dump any pretense said lore matters and start loudly whining they can't WAAAC with bits that pee all over said lore

Night Lords getting Lightning Claws is WAAC?

And yes, if you restrict yourself to just Primaris, you don’t have tons of options for melee. Your options aren’t bad (BGV are pretty damn good) but they’re not the best at melee. I’d have more sympathy if I hadn’t been told my entire army doesn’t count because I play one subfaction.

You forget that in Irbis's mind Chaos should be worse-equipped than Orks because they can't innovate, daemons are random, the Dark Mechanicum doesn't exist, every Chaos world is a blasted barren hellscape and all weapons break down as soon as they are touched by the warp.

Honestly we should be happy we even get power armour and bolters! True Chaos Space Marines go to battle naked with blunt sticks, because making them pointy requires too much innovation for dumb-dumb Chaos Space Marines and their rigid doctrines.

"They just don't fit on Raptor bodies as these are supposed to be still regular CSM..."

It's... it's the same kit. Does... does Irby not know that? And what is the "muh lore crowd"? How are lightning claws WAAC?

His post makes about as much sense as they usually do.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"They just don't fit on Raptor bodies as these are supposed to be still regular CSM..."

It's... it's the same kit. Does... does Irby not know that? And what is the "muh lore crowd"? How are lightning claws WAAC?

His post makes about as much sense as they usually do.

Aint he the guy that keeps saying FW broken and all that garbage too?

And starting almost every post he makes with some variation of "Your wrong!" as he gleefully nitpicks some minor and largely irrelevant detail of your post.

Maybe he gets points for doing that? Who knows...

 Irbis wrote:

They are mutated and half-demon limbs, much like the feet, arms, and heads of Warp Talons. They just don't fit on Raptor bodies as these are supposed to be still regular CSM. But it's funny to watch the 'muh lore' crowd who insisted Night Lords are totes not chaos instantly dump any pretense said lore matters and start loudly whining they can't WAAAC with bits that pee all over said lore

1. Only one pair of the claws in the Warp Talon/Raptor kit is mutated. The rest are completely normal and fit perfectly fine with the aesthetics of non-mutated Astartes.

2. Even if they are mutated, what does it matter? Night Lords as a whole might not worship Chaos, but that doesn't mean that ten millennia in the Eye doesn't result in some mutations. And some Night Lords plainly do worship Chaos.

3. Who is this "muh lore" person? Or if it's not a person but a group of people, why are you treating them like a monolithic being? Is it not possible that the people you refer to are different people with differing opinions?

 Cheex wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

They are mutated and half-demon limbs, much like the feet, arms, and heads of Warp Talons. They just don't fit on Raptor bodies as these are supposed to be still regular CSM. But it's funny to watch the 'muh lore' crowd who insisted Night Lords are totes not chaos instantly dump any pretense said lore matters and start loudly whining they can't WAAAC with bits that pee all over said lore

1. Only one pair of the claws in the Warp Talon/Raptor kit is mutated. The rest are completely normal and fit perfectly fine with the aesthetics of non-mutated Astartes.

2. Even if they are mutated, what does it matter? Night Lords as a whole might not worship Chaos, but that doesn't mean that ten millennia in the Eye doesn't result in some mutations. And some Night Lords plainly do worship Chaos.

3. Who is this "muh lore" person? Or if it's not a person but a group of people, why are you treating them like a monolithic being? Is it not possible that the people you refer to are different people with differing opinions?

The second largest contingent of night lords in the galaxy is led by a Daemon Prince. Them not being super chaos hasn't been a thing in decades lol.

 Irbis wrote:
They are mutated and half-demon limbs, much like the feet, arms, and heads of Warp Talons. They just don't fit on Raptor bodies as these are supposed to be still regular CSM. But it's funny to watch the 'muh lore' crowd who insisted Night Lords are totes not chaos instantly dump any pretense said lore matters and start loudly whining they can't WAAAC with bits that pee all over said lore

Raptors and Warp Talons are the same kit. What do you mean they don't fit on Raptor Bodies?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cole1114 wrote:

 Cheex wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

They are mutated and half-demon limbs, much like the feet, arms, and heads of Warp Talons. They just don't fit on Raptor bodies as these are supposed to be still regular CSM. But it's funny to watch the 'muh lore' crowd who insisted Night Lords are totes not chaos instantly dump any pretense said lore matters and start loudly whining they can't WAAAC with bits that pee all over said lore

1. Only one pair of the claws in the Warp Talon/Raptor kit is mutated. The rest are completely normal and fit perfectly fine with the aesthetics of non-mutated Astartes.

2. Even if they are mutated, what does it matter? Night Lords as a whole might not worship Chaos, but that doesn't mean that ten millennia in the Eye doesn't result in some mutations. And some Night Lords plainly do worship Chaos.

3. Who is this "muh lore" person? Or if it's not a person but a group of people, why are you treating them like a monolithic being? Is it not possible that the people you refer to are different people with differing opinions?

The second largest contingent of night lords in the galaxy is led by a Daemon Prince. Them not being super chaos hasn't been a thing in decades lol.

I think the Omnibus spells it out pretty well that they're all damned, they just look down on each other and the more you are in service of the gods the more they look down on you, even if they follow you because of old ranks, or just because you can rip them in half. It's why I'm using HH models as the bulk of my army, but mixing in CSM kits like Warp Talons feels on theme as well.

Every chaos unit should have to roll separate D6s to determine their S, T, A, WS, BS, LD, and then roll on D100 table to determine their equipment.

Only then will you achieve TRUE chaos.

Except Chaos =/= Random.

ERJAK wrote:
Every chaos unit should have to roll separate D6s to determine their S, T, A, WS, BS, LD, and then roll on D100 table to determine their equipment.

Only then will you achieve TRUE chaos.

Unironically the best suggestion in any thread for 9th edition across all of Dakka. Get this one on the GW rules team!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Except Chaos =/= Random.

That's how GW thinks it works. After all, look at their Havoc squads where they rolled dice to see what weapons they'd equip everyone with!

EviscerationPlague wrote:
That's how GW thinks it works. After all, look at their Havoc squads where they rolled dice to see what weapons they'd equip everyone with!

That's just Games Workshop's "Everything is Equally Effective and Valid" mentality shining through. It's been that way for literal decades when it comes to Devastator squads (and their ilk). They used to write tactics articles and state that Dev Squads with 4 different heavy weapons were the best.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
That's how GW thinks it works. After all, look at their Havoc squads where they rolled dice to see what weapons they'd equip everyone with!

That's just Games Workshop's "Everything is Equally Effective and Valid" mentality shining through. It's been that way for literal decades when it comes to Devastator squads (and their ilk). They used to write tactics articles and state that Dev Squads with 4 different heavy weapons were the best.

Hold on now, they clearly told us that they have elite playtesters so it's the most balanced edition ever thanks to their patented "Playtested" TM technology. /s

 Grimskul wrote:
Hold on now, they clearly told us that they have elite playtesters so it's the most balanced edition ever thanks to their patented "Playtested" TM technology. /s

Well, this is GW. The left hand often does not know that the right hand even exists. And, in the case of this Codex, whether it can have Lightning Claws.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
That's how GW thinks it works. After all, look at their Havoc squads where they rolled dice to see what weapons they'd equip everyone with!

That's just Games Workshop's "Everything is Equally Effective and Valid" mentality shining through. It's been that way for literal decades when it comes to Devastator squads (and their ilk). They used to write tactics articles and state that Dev Squads with 4 different heavy weapons were the best.

Ugh I forgot that was a thing. Anyone still have those articles saved anywhere?

I mean, it might be balanced relatively fine, but that isn’t really what most people are complaining about here—it’s mostly the loss/inconsistency of options that make no sense.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I mean, it might be balanced relatively fine, but that isn’t really what most people are complaining about here—it’s mostly the loss/inconsistency of options that make no sense.

I really don't think it's going to be fine externally based on these leaks, to be honest. Now of course there IS still stuff we haven't gotten to see yet, but nothing has especially stood out. Abaddon is an auto-include, at least. For mobility, especially since no Jump Packs for any HQs, I think Red Corsairs are gonna come out on top especially with their Strat to deny one reserve unit from coming out that turn.

Otherwise, not a lot that Loyalists can't do better.

Just seems there isn't a lot to be enthusiastic about.