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 JNAProductions wrote:
It got +1 shot. What other buff did it get?

When you're talking body cost +1M, +1T, +1S, +1W, +1Sv. Then you have the ability to ignore hit penalties for any variant and triple the model count as an action.

So the 'Detachment Abilities' page has leaked.

As one might imagine, it confirms 0-1 Hive Tyrant per detachment.

The (not actually a rule at the time) Rule of Three was created because of multi-winged HT armies. Can the Hive Tyrant (and, by extension, Tyranid players) please stop paying for this now? It's been years, and you haven't been able to take enough winged HTs to do the thing that was so egregious in the first place. And you got rid of half our weapon options. And you turned our feet talons into weird not-quite ScyTals. And they're far easier to kill than walking Tyranids. And yet they still cost more (190 vs 160).

They're the fething Wraithlords of the 8th Edition+ era, and it's time to let go of that GW.

Is it actually clear what's covered under that 0-1?

I'd assume foot tyrant, wing tyrant and swarm lord, but off-hand, I actually can't give GW the credit that they'd include all 3.

It says 0-1 Hive Tyrant.

The Hive Tyrant, Winged Hive Tyrant and Swarmlord all have the 'Hive Tyrant' keyword. The Winged Hive Tyrant has the Hive Tyrant and Winged Hive Tyrant keyword. We shall forever suffer for the sins of the Supreme Command Detachment and it's 5 HQ slots...

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
It got +1 shot. What other buff did it get?

When you're talking body cost +1M, +1T, +1S, +1W, +1Sv. Then you have the ability to ignore hit penalties for any variant and triple the model count as an action.

Moreover, the impaler cannon gained one more attack so it is a more anti-infantry gun.

What is really interesting is the shock cannon though.

edit : covered

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
It got +1 shot. What other buff did it get?

A slight uptick in durability, something that's really needed on units that spent the entire game hiding.

Can't wait for the 2+ save and extra 8 wounds that all Guard artillery units have been crying out for... oh wait...

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I don't agree with the characterization of "nerf to oblivion" or "ground into the dirt".

S8 to S6, a loss of 12" of range, more restrictions on where it can fire and it got a price increase on top of all that. Oh, and now it has to compete with Exocrines, Tyrannofexes and Carnifexes.

If that isn't nerfed into the ground, then I don't know what is.

Gotta check the Exocrine vs Impaler Hg match up these days.

3 HG vs Exocrine (180 vs 170 point)

HG get 9 shots, S6, AP2, D2, sometimes ignoring LOS, ignoring cover, ignoring hit penalties. 24" range
Exocrine is D3+6, S8, AP4, D3, ignoring cover. 36" Range.

For offensive output, gotta tip the hat to exocrines here. Against -1 Damage they are more than twice as effective, much better AP, and higher strength...with a range that is significantly better. Throw in voracious ammo for +15 points, and you are looking at an extra ~1.66 mortal wound per turn as well.

Defensively;
HG are T6, W4, 3+ sv times 3. Giving 12 wounds total.
Exocrine is T8, W15, 2+ save.

More wounds, a better toughness (across the S4 needing a 6 to wound break point no less) and a better save. Also can benefit from "trans-nid physio" so if you do eat some S9+ fire you can be only wounded on a 4+. Could also go with the 4+ invul if you felt like it for +25 points. Exocrine takes the defensive side of things as well IMO. I'll also mention that the extra range is a defensive buff in and of itself, as you won't have to stick your models into the meat grinder to get a shot off.

This is a SWEET book though. Super stoked to get my hands on it.

 Overread wrote:


I'm clearly missing some interaction here, but how is a unit functionally immortal with this?

Most lists will struggle to kill a Harridan or Hierophant in a single shooting phase. Flyrants can drop back within 3" of Tyrant Guard, and be untargetable for a shooting phase until they can use the strat again.

Feels like a very 'gamey' strat, especially for certain secondaries.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tyran wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
It got +1 shot. What other buff did it get?

When you're talking body cost +1M, +1T, +1S, +1W, +1Sv. Then you have the ability to ignore hit penalties for any variant and triple the model count as an action.

Moreover, the impaler cannon gained one more attack so it is a more anti-infantry gun.

What is really interesting is the shock cannon though.

Yeah that was the main reason S8 needed to go away. It made Impalers the auto-take option against pretty much any target including vehicles. An extra shot for -2S is a fine trade, and being immune to hit roll modifiers is definitely handy.

I expect at some point in future both Hive Guard weapon options will cost the same number of points, but for now I'm fine with trying new stuff.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So the 'Detachment Abilities' page has leaked.

As one might imagine, it confirms 0-1 Hive Tyrant per detachment.

The (not actually a rule at the time) Rule of Three was created because of multi-winged HT armies. Can the Hive Tyrant (and, by extension, Tyranid players) please stop paying for this now? It's been years, and you haven't been able to take enough winged HTs to do the thing that was so egregious in the first place. And you got rid of half our weapon options. And you turned our feet talons into weird not-quite ScyTals. And they're far easier to kill than walking Tyranids. And yet they still cost more (190 vs 160).

They're the fething Wraithlords of the 8th Edition+ era, and it's time to let go of that GW.

Haven't they put the 0-1 restriction on units which were never spammed? Pretty sure it's a matter of fluff/theme; multiple Hive Tyrants showing up on the same battlefield is probably about as common as multiple Chapter Masters.

 xttz wrote:

 Overread wrote:


I'm clearly missing some interaction here, but how is a unit functionally immortal with this?

Most lists will struggle to kill a Harridan or Hierophant in a single shooting phase. Flyrants can drop back within 3" of Tyrant Guard, and be untargetable for a shooting phase until they can use the strat again.

Feels like a very 'gamey' strat, especially for certain secondaries.

This is like the Hive tyrant rule of three thing. there will be players that will abuse it and others that sometimes use it.
Wasn't it not long ago that a tournament list was measuered on how reliable it can kill 1 24-28W T8 and 4++ save modell? So i think the lonely Harridan which costs you 3CP and which does not get any army bonuses.
Do not get me wrong, can this be anoying? jub. But if you want to nerv it make it not engaged

Exo might have 2+, but HG are Infantry and can get cover so are effectively 2+ and can adapt into 1+ saves.

A Prime can hand out exploding 6s as well. The body of the HG had to go up in points even if you don't think the Impaler is worth it.

Kronos puts them to 28" ( not sure if Kronos is viable though ), which covers most of the played field since you need objectives. Exo gun is better, but you need to see the target directly.

Shock Guard has the same range and a similar damage output to the Exocrine against vehicles (depending on target) plus assault so advance and shooting.

Shock Guard may actually be viable, depending on meta.

Finally got the Tcyte datasheet:



Multiwound infantry count as 3 models; so 6 shock cannon hive guard, or 6 pyrovores, or 6 warriors all look like decent options. Plus now that there's no limit on individual units you can bring support characters along.

Interestingly Tfexes and Tervigons are 17 wounds now, so are too big to ride. I think only Jormungandr can deep strike them now.

What would nids prefer to DS turn 1 for 140 points?


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 Carnage43 wrote:
Also can benefit from "trans-nid physio" so if you do eat some S9+ fire you can be only wounded on a 4+.

Small point of order here - the Exo is not synapse and the Levi trait for 1-3 is synapse only.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
What would nids prefer to DS turn 1 for 140 points?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

6 Pyrovores, their flamespurt got nice.

 Carnage43 wrote:
Also can benefit from "trans-nid physio" so if you do eat some S9+ fire you can be only wounded on a 4+.

Small point of order here - the Exo is not synapse and the Levi trait for 1-3 is synapse only.

There is a transnid monster stratagem. And you can also give it synapse with an adaptive biology.

 Tyran wrote:
There is a transnid monster stratagem. And you can also give it synapse with an adaptive biology.

Lots of options then, which is good. Oh lord 1 CP for a monster transhuman. Yeesh.

I think I love lictors. They seem quite fun again. Deathleper...zoinks...

 Daedalus81 wrote:
What would nids prefer to DS turn 1 for 140 points?

Tcytes are only 100pts with deathspitters, or 110 with the synapse upgrade. That's probably worth it if you're dropping hive guard or exocrines.

So....

Is anyone else mildly bemused that the book is supposedly end of the month release and we've had a grand total of....2 articles relating to Tyranids?

While Aeldari literally had 3 weeks of articles, one every single damn day about their book and are even getting a datasheet updated 2 weeks after release.

I don't ever want to hear an Eldar player complain GW neglects them ever again so long as Tyranid players merely exist.

Literally, we've had our entire book leak and gotten more from that than GW themselves lol.

EDIT: And this datasheet update better be something to consider to apply to Hive Tyrants and Flyrants. We need to make a lot of noise about our suddenly lost options. Kit interchangeability is a huge thing, especially with Tyranids - if they can get Autarchs fixed we may have some hope. As some have pointed out, we can't even get a quad scytal Tyrant anymore....

That is because the Eldar got how many new kits again?

That being said we aren't getting an end of the month release, at most an end of the month preorder.

Tyranids are 1 new model and the book.

Eldar were several new models and multiple upgraded new kits.

GW had a lot more to talk about for Eldar over Tyranids. If Tyranids are end of the month they only need a few weeks of regular articles to push the book over. Remembering that you'll get a whole slew of likely daily updates during pre-order week so that's 3 weeks including the pre-ordering week before things to go retail.

Am I seeing things, or does the Screamer-Killer in the leaks have 10 Attacks?
I mean, sure, only S6, but AP-3 D3 and 10 Attacks!

Finally, the main drop pod army gets the proper drop pod assault rule.

Impaler and termagant devourer changes are just stupid. Like maliciously stupid.
Just removing Single-minded annihilation would solve their balance issues, but no, GW had to balefire both loadouts out of the weave of existence.

Genestealers are also difficult to comprehend. I can understand some of the changes, I can understand why they are worse than the older and more experienced purestrains, but why the heck they cost more than the purestrains?

The rest of the codex, though? Chef kiss. GW has clearly put an actual effort into the book, for the first time in a decade.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Am I seeing things, or does the Screamer-Killer in the leaks have 10 Attacks?
I mean, sure, only S6, but AP-3 D3 and 10 Attacks!

+1 on the charge, too

Brings a tear to my eye that Lictors finally have their proper beastly stats. Took... six? eight? editions to get it done, and I quit actually playing 40K years ago, but the little guys deserved it.

hiveguard still has some uses, because NLOS is an extremely strong rule. Plus the shockcannon got quite an upgrade.

devourer gants are just stupid, although viable on a Gorgon army (because everything gets poison on a Gorgon army).

Genestealers are a mess, and I'm not even sure if in a completely bad way. On one hand they are overcosted and lost advance and charge. On the other infiltrate is such a strong rule, can be reinforced and are Core (unlike Purestrains). May still have some uses just because of how strong infiltrate is.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Am I seeing things, or does the Screamer-Killer in the leaks have 10 Attacks?
I mean, sure, only S6, but AP-3 D3 and 10 Attacks!

Give them some Adrenal Glands : 11 Attacks (on the charge) at S7 AP-3 D3 flat with an 11"M characteristic.

Also, go Behemoth and now you are S8 when you charge.

And there's still a 1 CP stratagem to give one Monster full wound reroll.

A Behemoth Screamer Killer with adrenal glands is only 125 points for a Monster with 9 wounds, 2+ armor save, 11 friggin Attacks when you charge at S8 AP -3 and damage 3 with a 3+ WS while being incredibly speedy. It is utterly insane.

I'm really getting the feeling that the Octarius book should have been out a lot earlier and that it will die with this codex. There's going to be a lot of pissed people...

From a quick overview, I expect Tyranid competitive lists to still be different flavors of Nidzilla, the thing is that we do not really need CS so much anymore. full swarm lists likely dead, but having a few swarm units may still be worth it because of all the layers of buffs we can put on them.

I know it's easy to overlook, but the Biovore is actually not bad this edition. It's an No Line of Sight Mortal wound thrower. Unless it gets FAQed it can, in addition to shooting mortal wounds on the same turn, lay out D3 spore mines per Biovore.

Sure, that's not super flashy, but it's not bad either.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I know it's easy to overlook, but the Biovore is actually not bad this edition. It's an No Line of Sight Mortal wound thrower. Unless it gets FAQed it can, in addition to shooting mortal wounds on the same turn, lay out D3 spore mines per Biovore.

Sure, that's not super flashy, but it's not bad either.

It's D3 shots, needing 4+ to hit right? 45 points?

I mean...1 mortal wound on average for 45 points feels dumpster tier to me. Would would this even be doing?

If you can do the action as well, it's less awful, but still not amazing.