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Starship Troopers the movie is 75% Cadians as it came after the models we still use today, and copied heavily the IG aesthetics of the time. .
Starship Troopers was released in 1997. The plastic Cadians arrived in the early 2000s.
The infantry uniforms in Starship Troopers were closer in design to the original metal Cadians (which do predate the movie) than the current plastics.
What's the deal with "GW copying SHT" that crops up frequently on the board whenever some sort of quasi-contemporary-sci-fi kit is released? Like, everything GW makes is somehow based heavily on SHT? I've never even seen that movie, but I see aspects of many different futuristic / modern day aesthetics in GW stuff. It's so bizarre that so many people want to link it to SHT. It seems like an obsession with some people.
They're grunts. With flak armour and helmets and rifles. It's not SHT guys. It's sci-fi infantry. There's onyl so many ways to do it. You can't just say "Oh look, it's SHT'. Well you can ofc, but it's absurd when you do. Tedious and lazy and naïve.
Because Guard vs Nids looks very much like it, so it’s easy to then compare.
Also, what’s the H you’re using in SHT?
It was my dad's 65th on sunday, so at dinner I did some day drinking, then when I got home I decided to carry on chugging (my fatal mistake). I have no idea why I decided ST should be SHT, but I'm gonna blame it on my inebriation (also the ranty, unreasonably agitated tone too! Yes, that seems plausible )
What kinds of things did the old Squat army have in their armories?
In 40k, basically just the same stuff that the other imperial armies did. Basic troops had lasguns and they had all the normal heavy and support weapons.
Their lasguns have clearly had an upgrade, and there will presumably be heavier versions of whatever that weapon is. If we're lucky, there will be five different versions of the same gun with different energy canisters to tell them apart! Woo!
I would also expect to see mole mortars (or a new weapon on a similar theme) since they haven't been appropriated by anyone else outside of Forgeworld offerings. Possibly access to Ambots and conversion beamers, but more likely just a bunch of completely new gear made up to keep them distinct from other factions.
And exo-armour, obviously. Can't remake Squats without updating the wee little eggmen!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/04/04 21:22:40
ClockworkZion wrote: Plus "Volkite" fits GW Dwarves based on GW naming a unit "Vulkite Berserkers". And it's a tempormental dark age of technology weapon the Imperium had to give up on that would fit well with space dwarves who know how to actually fix and improve things.
Similar to Gauss?
They're more like sci-fi "heat rays". To quote Lexicanum:
Possessing a killing power surpassing most armaments of their size, Volkites were little-understood and difficult to replicate on even the most capable Mechanicus Forge Worlds. Volkite weapons could Deflagrate organic matter, explosively burning flesh into ash and jetting fire. A direct hit by a Volkite weapon could cause a target to simply combust, often taking nearby comrades with them.
For the curious, "deflagerate" means "burn away or cause (a substance) to burn away with a sudden flame and rapid, sharp combustion."
Yes, I want Sisters of Battle to have them, but GW seems to say "no" instead.
Togusa wrote: So in an effort to get some discussion going beyond arguing over dwarf head icons and boots....
This army is going to be interesting. Going on what we have, which is one model...
It looks like some kind of flamer or meltagun that he's equipped with. I know they're supposed to be all about better tech, so I'm wondering if they're going to play as in between Marines and Guard, really hitting up that 24 inch range ban with some heavy support and lots of high strength, high AP shooting?
What kinds of things did the old Squat army have in their armories?
We can infer they're going to have some kind of grav weapons based on the passage in Psychic Awakening mentioning them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/04 21:42:51
ClockworkZion wrote: Plus "Volkite" fits GW Dwarves based on GW naming a unit "Vulkite Berserkers". And it's a tempormental dark age of technology weapon the Imperium had to give up on that would fit well with space dwarves who know how to actually fix and improve things.
Similar to Gauss?
They're more like sci-fi "heat rays". To quote Lexicanum:
Possessing a killing power surpassing most armaments of their size, Volkites were little-understood and difficult to replicate on even the most capable Mechanicus Forge Worlds. Volkite weapons could Deflagrate organic matter, explosively burning flesh into ash and jetting fire. A direct hit by a Volkite weapon could cause a target to simply combust, often taking nearby comrades with them.
For the curious, "deflagerate" means "burn away or cause (a substance) to burn away with a sudden flame and rapid, sharp combustion."
Yes, I want Sisters of Battle to have them, but GW seems to say "no" instead.
To be fair, i think the only way you can get Volkite at all in 40k outside the new Chaos Knight, is on some Primaris and a single AdMech HQ.
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ClockworkZion wrote: Plus "Volkite" fits GW Dwarves based on GW naming a unit "Vulkite Berserkers". And it's a tempormental dark age of technology weapon the Imperium had to give up on that would fit well with space dwarves who know how to actually fix and improve things.
Similar to Gauss?
They're more like sci-fi "heat rays". To quote Lexicanum:
Possessing a killing power surpassing most armaments of their size, Volkites were little-understood and difficult to replicate on even the most capable Mechanicus Forge Worlds. Volkite weapons could Deflagrate organic matter, explosively burning flesh into ash and jetting fire. A direct hit by a Volkite weapon could cause a target to simply combust, often taking nearby comrades with them.
For the curious, "deflagerate" means "burn away or cause (a substance) to burn away with a sudden flame and rapid, sharp combustion."
Yes, I want Sisters of Battle to have them, but GW seems to say "no" instead.
I always imagined the effects of volkite to look like those of the drones' guns in Oblivion.
ClockworkZion wrote: Plus "Volkite" fits GW Dwarves based on GW naming a unit "Vulkite Berserkers". And it's a tempormental dark age of technology weapon the Imperium had to give up on that would fit well with space dwarves who know how to actually fix and improve things.
Similar to Gauss?
They're more like sci-fi "heat rays". To quote Lexicanum:
Possessing a killing power surpassing most armaments of their size, Volkites were little-understood and difficult to replicate on even the most capable Mechanicus Forge Worlds. Volkite weapons could Deflagrate organic matter, explosively burning flesh into ash and jetting fire. A direct hit by a Volkite weapon could cause a target to simply combust, often taking nearby comrades with them.
For the curious, "deflagerate" means "burn away or cause (a substance) to burn away with a sudden flame and rapid, sharp combustion."
Yes, I want Sisters of Battle to have them, but GW seems to say "no" instead.
I always imagined the effects of volkite to look like those of the drones' guns in Oblivion.
To be fair, i think the only way you can get Volkite at all in 40k outside the new Chaos Knight, is on some Primaris and a single AdMech HQ.
Contemptors, Leviathans, Deredeos, Termites, the OTHER Knight with a Vulkite weapon, Volkite is all over the place in 40K.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/04 23:49:00
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Quite curious how they're going to tackle a number of nits in the current state of the lore:
- Tyranids. Obviously they didn't eat all the Squats, but is them eating most of the Squats even still a thing? How do they feel about Tyranids if that is the case? I have an impression that it may still be a thing, as the emphasis on void travel (sealed uniform, intro video having them board an Imperial vessel presumably to salvage), plus the very name "League of Votann" doesn't sound like the name of an empire but rather an alliance of fleets, perhaps all that remains of the Squat race after the Tyranids consumed whatever planet holdings they had.
- The Emperor. They clearly didn't join the Imperium proper but given their access and apparent deep knowledge of DAoT tech, how could the Emperor have possibly let them be? Much less his own designs for reacquiring such technology, he would have been hard pressed to justify not taking an aggressive stance against the Squats on behalf of Mars - surely the incarnation of the Omnissiah would not shirk the holy duty of recovering such knowledge for humanity proper.
-General 30k-40k timeline progression and their previous lack of involvement or even utter non-existence.
I am sure there is an easy solution to points 2 and 3, involving some sort of DAoT hijinks that had them hiding utterly from the rest of the galaxy (though you'd expect the Emperor at least to be aware of them, but point #2 is a non-issue if he knew but didn't care and never revealed to anyone else who they were and what they had), but it's bit of a cop-out.
ClockworkZion wrote: Plus "Volkite" fits GW Dwarves based on GW naming a unit "Vulkite Berserkers". And it's a tempormental dark age of technology weapon the Imperium had to give up on that would fit well with space dwarves who know how to actually fix and improve things.
Similar to Gauss?
They're more like sci-fi "heat rays". To quote Lexicanum:
Possessing a killing power surpassing most armaments of their size, Volkites were little-understood and difficult to replicate on even the most capable Mechanicus Forge Worlds. Volkite weapons could Deflagrate organic matter, explosively burning flesh into ash and jetting fire. A direct hit by a Volkite weapon could cause a target to simply combust, often taking nearby comrades with them.
For the curious, "deflagerate" means "burn away or cause (a substance) to burn away with a sudden flame and rapid, sharp combustion."
Yes, I want Sisters of Battle to have them, but GW seems to say "no" instead.
I always imagined the effects of volkite to look like those of the drones' guns in Oblivion.
I always think of "Mars Attacks!"
Yup, violent cell incineration from the inside out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/05 00:47:17
- Tyranids. Obviously they didn't eat all the Squats, but is them eating most of the Squats even still a thing? How do they feel about Tyranids if that is the case? I have an impression that it may still be a thing, as the emphasis on void travel (sealed uniform, intro video having them board an Imperial vessel presumably to salvage), plus the very name "League of Votann" doesn't sound like the name of an empire but rather an alliance of fleets, perhaps all that remains of the Squat race after the Tyranids consumed whatever planet holdings they had.
Has the whole 'eaten by the Tyranids' actually been written anywhere outside of the intro blurb to Ian Watson's Inquisition War? I can't recall coming across it anywhere else, and if that's the case, then I suspect they'll deal with it by just ignoring it.
- The Emperor. They clearly didn't join the Imperium proper but given their access and apparent deep knowledge of DAoT tech, how could the Emperor have possibly let them be? Much less his own designs for reacquiring such technology, he would have been hard pressed to justify not taking an aggressive stance against the Squats on behalf of Mars - surely the incarnation of the Omnissiah would not shirk the holy duty of recovering such knowledge for humanity proper.
The easy answer would be that they nominally joined the Imperium to begin with, and there would quite possibly have initially been some knowledge sharing, and then they gradually become more independent after the Heresy.
Or, they were on the Emperor's hit-list, but due to their advanced tech had been reserved as a target for the closing stages of the Crusade, when the Imperium could focus on them properly... and then the Heresy happened and took the focus off them for some time, after which an uneasy alliance of sorts let everyone just get on with doing their own thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/05 01:04:25
Starship Troopers the movie is 75% Cadians as it came after the models we still use today, and copied heavily the IG aesthetics of the time. .
Starship Troopers was released in 1997. The plastic Cadians arrived in the early 2000s.
The infantry uniforms in Starship Troopers were closer in design to the original metal Cadians (which do predate the movie) than the current plastics.
What's the deal with "GW copying SHT" that crops up frequently on the board whenever some sort of quasi-contemporary-sci-fi kit is released? Like, everything GW makes is somehow based heavily on SHT? I've never even seen that movie, but I see aspects of many different futuristic / modern day aesthetics in GW stuff. It's so bizarre that so many people want to link it to SHT. It seems like an obsession with some people.
They're grunts. With flak armour and helmets and rifles. It's not SHT guys. It's sci-fi infantry. There's onyl so many ways to do it. You can't just say "Oh look, it's SHT'. Well you can ofc, but it's absurd when you do. Tedious and lazy and naïve.
Because Guard vs Nids looks very much like it, so it’s easy to then compare.
Also, what’s the H you’re using in SHT?
It was my dad's 65th on sunday, so at dinner I did some day drinking, then when I got home I decided to carry on chugging (my fatal mistake). I have no idea why I decided ST should be SHT, but I'm gonna blame it on my inebriation (also the ranty, unreasonably agitated tone too! Yes, that seems plausible )
To be honest the Imperial guard rogue trader plastic RTB07 look more like the star ship troopers than the cadians. even the color of the gear is the same. These defently pre date the film.
- Tyranids. Obviously they didn't eat all the Squats, but is them eating most of the Squats even still a thing? How do they feel about Tyranids if that is the case? I have an impression that it may still be a thing, as the emphasis on void travel (sealed uniform, intro video having them board an Imperial vessel presumably to salvage), plus the very name "League of Votann" doesn't sound like the name of an empire but rather an alliance of fleets, perhaps all that remains of the Squat race after the Tyranids consumed whatever planet holdings they had.
Has the whole 'eaten by the Tyranids' actually been written anywhere outside of the intro blurb to Ian Watson's Inquisition War? I can't recall coming across it anywhere else, and if that's the case, then I suspect they'll deal with it by just ignoring it.
- The Emperor. They clearly didn't join the Imperium proper but given their access and apparent deep knowledge of DAoT tech, how could the Emperor have possibly let them be? Much less his own designs for reacquiring such technology, he would have been hard pressed to justify not taking an aggressive stance against the Squats on behalf of Mars - surely the incarnation of the Omnissiah would not shirk the holy duty of recovering such knowledge for humanity proper.
The easy answer would be that they nominally joined the Imperium to begin with, and there would quite possibly have initially been some knowledge sharing, and then they gradually become more independent after the Heresy.
Or, they were on the Emperor's hit-list, but due to their advanced tech had been reserved as a target for the closing stages of the Crusade, when the Imperium could focus on them properly... and then the Heresy happened and took the focus off them for some time, after which an uneasy alliance of sorts let everyone just get on with doing their own thing.
I recall one of the 'Nid codex say something about Fleet /insert bigbugname eating the Demiurg worlds, but don't quote me on that as it's a bit blurry in my mind.
M.
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The tyranid eating of the Squats happened in like m39-40 or something like that. So only really the 10th-13th black crusade up to "current" cuz even BobbyG couldn't get anyone to actually agree on what year "current"even is.
They also don't all need to have been stuck in warp/time dilation hijinks. It's kinda normal for a dwarf to dig in to defend against the nids and 300yrs later come out swinging to nobody there.
I would think the lore will stay the same because it's such a famous story among GW fans. Even people who started playing in 7th know the squat meme and that they were supposedly eaten by the Nids. The squats had probably colonized more than 1 planet which is how they can still produce things, perhaps they had a planet like Mars near their homeworld that made all the weapons and they hid it from the hive fleet with some fancy cloaking technology, idk. Also there would be squats out in space on ships with a decent stockpile of weapons and presumably some knowledge on how to make them. I don't think that needs a retcon just because the race itself survived. Homeworld eaten by nids doesn't automatically = extinct.
Yeah, the Squat coreworlds are likely gone, but I doubt they were completely wiped out. Being a fleet based race ala some kind of Dwarven Craftworlds would work fine.
I would just toss old silliness aside and do a proper job with their lore (of new silliness). Humanity exists on over a million worlds, if Squats are going to be a real faction, they can't exist in one, or ten, or a hundred star systems, that just makes the whole effort sound stupid. Don't tie an anchor around your writing hand, just come up with something cool and move forward from there, they can have fought the nids the same way every other faction has.
Old lore- the imperium failed their great crusade as it was interrupted by the Horus Heresy, it is possible the squats existed in the galaxy outside of the areas the great crusade brought to compliance.
It's possible the nids at the squats, and retcon, or the nids we're thought to have eaten the squats and whatever happens happens.
Who's to say that they were cut off because of various Warp shenanigans, but the creation of the rift set them free in the same way as the birth of Slaanesh set humanity free?
But, at the same time, it ripped their territory in two, so now they're out searching for all the lost holds that they once had (and there's your Crusade mechanic as well).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/05 04:10:14
Things/peoples that were thought long-since destroyed and are now back is a trope through both fantasy and Scifi.
Squats may have turned into a fleet-based race like the Black Templars. They may have mass-migrated to a new homeworld. They may have just spread out far and wide. They may have just hunkered down in the caverns near the core of their planet to avoid the nids for thousands of years.
The possibilities are endless, and I'm frankly stoked to see which way GW goes. I'm hoping the Squats disguised themselves as some kind of xenos to trade with peoples outside the Imperium, careful enough to stay just outside the attention of any true Imperial authority until now.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Who's to say that they were cut off because of various Warp shenanigans, but the creation of the rift set them free in the same way as the birth of Slaanesh set humanity free?
But, at the same time, it ripped their territory in two, so now they're out searching for all the lost holds that they once had (and there's your Crusade mechanic as well).
I like the idea that they were just out in the far reaches where the Astronomicon is very dim and thus mostly ignored (like how the Tau got skipped over for millennia) until the Tyranids came and drove them from their homes, making them a massive flotilla of refugees like Eldar or Quarians from Mass Effect
MajorWesJanson wrote: I like the idea that they were just out in the far reaches where the Astronomicon is very dim and thus mostly ignored (like how the Tau got skipped over for millennia) until the Tyranids came and drove them from their homes, making them a massive flotilla of refugees like Eldar or Quarians from Mass Effect
I'd rather they were cut-off than ignored. I don't want them being another tiny race like the Tau, where you have to go out of your way to include them because they're so insignificant compared to the rest of the races in the galaxy.
Is this "League of Votann" different than the Demiurg? Could we have a situation where we have Imperial-allied dwarves and Tau-allied dwarves?
The Demiurg are a Xenos race, separate to Squats. While (going by a recent post on Twitter by Gav Thorpe) the name was originally floated as a replacement for the original 'Squat' moniker, as they were introduced to BfG they are a Xenos race of short, lumpy-headed miners, and largely fleet based.
So yes, assuming that the Demiurg are still a going concern, the universe now contains both the human-mutant Squats, and the xenos Demiurg. From the time that the Demiurg were first introduced though, the studio were pretty firm that they would be unlikely to ever appear outside of BfG. At best, they could possibly appear in 40K as a unit of Tau auxiliaries like the Vespid, but I wouldn't hold your breath.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/05 05:55:21
Is this "League of Votann" different than the Demiurg? Could we have a situation where we have Imperial-allied dwarves and Tau-allied dwarves?
Demiurg look notably xenos. It would be a cool twist if the etheral/earth caste had altered squat physiology and got demiurgs, but I think most people would hate that. Better to leave them as a separate xenos race
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/05 11:32:40
Demiurg clearly were an attempt to redo the Squat concept, so now than the actual Squats are back it is the best to just forget that the Demiurg were ever mentioned.
Crimson wrote: Demiurg clearly were an attempt to redo the Squat concept, so now than the actual Squats are back it is the best to just forget that the Demiurg were ever mentioned.
- The Emperor. They clearly didn't join the Imperium proper but given their access and apparent deep knowledge of DAoT tech, how could the Emperor have possibly let them be? Much less his own designs for reacquiring such technology, he would have been hard pressed to justify not taking an aggressive stance against the Squats on behalf of Mars - surely the incarnation of the Omnissiah would not shirk the holy duty of recovering such knowledge for humanity proper.
If I recall, the old lore was that, similar to the mechanicus, they were something of a client state. They were too difficult to conquer and instead agreed to become a sort of associated state with the imperium. Which is also why all the mechanicus could do is seeth and politik.
As for the HH, I believe was they had their own civil war in parallel and thus were contained within themselves. Though I could be misremembering this one.
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