Astra Militarum Rumors 2022-2023

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**Kanluwen**

Something worth mentioning comes up with a reread of the Macharius lore:

That wasn't the original name of the tank!

In the mythic past it is known that the Imperial Army once fielded many types of heavy tanks during the Great Crusade, though the knowledge of their design, construction and even the name of some of these tanks has likely been lost. It is the job of the munition-adepts of the Adeptus Mechanicus to rediscover this lost data, a tireless effort which can last years. During one such mission Magos Nalax of forge world Lucius, through diligent study of his world's vast archives, discovered fragments of a blueprint for such a tank. The task of reconstructing the missing data became his life's work, cross-referencing data with components used on the Baneblade and other vehicles, until finally he presented a complete plan before the Fabricator-General on Mars for final approval. The process took two hundred years of careful study and consultation with other forge worlds before acceptance was given and Lucius sanctioned to begin production, though Nalax would not live to see his dream realized.

Ironically by this time Lucius had successfully lobbied for the right to build Baneblades and was already constructing them. However they soon found themselves swamped by the Departmento Munitorium's demands for the vehicle, and when the world of Krieg was returned to the Imperial fold it was Lucius that was charged with equipping their newly-raised regiments. To meet these demands Lucius turned to the Macharius, and in 852.M41 the first of these heavy tanks rolled off the production lines for the Death Korps of Krieg. Since that time other forge worlds have been granted permission to build Macharius tanks of their own, and its usage has spread to other regiments.

The original name of this vehicle is now lost and remains unknown.

So maybe the Praetorian is the blueprint the Macharius was mostly derived from?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Agamemnon2 wrote:

At least Catachan still exists in the setting.

Cadia is a system as well as a planet...the system still exists.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Huh, there's a thought. How many planets are in the Cadia system? Could the Cadians just relocate to another planet?

**Kanluwen**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Huh, there's a thought. How many planets are in the Cadia system? Could the Cadians just relocate to another planet?

They did, per Hill's "Cadia" series.

Plus most of the planets were already settled/fortified--those planets which weren't really hospitable were used for hostile environment training.

**KillerAngel**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Huh, there's a thought. How many planets are in the Cadia system? Could the Cadians just relocate to another planet?

Cadia is a planet, a system, a subsector, and also a sector. So there is plenty of wiggle room to keep these bad boys and girls around.

**CthuluIsSpy**

I see. So Cadia stands then I guess

**Flinty**

Except when he sits… whuff!

**CthuluIsSpy**

Can he play dead too? Oh wait...

Also K9 units when GW?

**insaniak**

Geifer wrote:
And we have more plastic Cadians than plastics for Valhallans, Mordians, Steel Legion, Tallarn, and so on combined, even before the coming update. Even if you throw in the recent Krieg models. Guard is awfully neglected, but within that neglect there's still blatant favoritism.

The Cadian uniform is also supposed to be the 'standard' gear for Astra Imperialguardium regiments, so it makes sense that the majority of Guard kits would use it. Less 'favouritism' and more 'the range works better when large chunks of it are compatible with each other'.

**Geifer**

insaniak wrote:
Geifer wrote:
And we have more plastic Cadians than plastics for Valhallans, Mordians, Steel Legion, Tallarn, and so on combined, even before the coming update. Even if you throw in the recent Krieg models. Guard is awfully neglected, but within that neglect there's still blatant favoritism.

The Cadian uniform is also supposed to be the 'standard' gear for Astra Imperialguardium regiments, so it makes sense that the majority of Guard kits would use it. Less 'favouritism' and more 'the range works better when large chunks of it are compatible with each other'.

My retcon sense is tingling again.

**Platuan4th**

Geifer wrote:
insaniak wrote:
Geifer wrote:
And we have more plastic Cadians than plastics for Valhallans, Mordians, Steel Legion, Tallarn, and so on combined, even before the coming update. Even if you throw in the recent Krieg models. Guard is awfully neglected, but within that neglect there's still blatant favoritism.

The Cadian uniform is also supposed to be the 'standard' gear for Astra Imperialguardium regiments, so it makes sense that the majority of Guard kits would use it. Less 'favouritism' and more 'the range works better when large chunks of it are compatible with each other'.

My retcon sense is tingling again.

Yeah, that was only a thing because GW was pushing the plastic Cadians and even then, it was sold in universe as other guard regiments intentionally emulating the Cadians because they're lauded as the epitome of what it was to be Guard.

**PenitentJake**

Flinty wrote:
Except when he sits… whuff!

[url=https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/1104620-3d%20Printing%2C%20Cadians%2C%20Cyber%20Mastiff%2C%20Dogs%2C%20Good%20Boy%2C%20Necromunda%2C%20Stargrave.html][img]https://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2021/5/6/1104620_sm-3d%20Printing%2C%20Cadians%2C%20Cyber%20Mastiff%2C%20Dogs%2C%20Good%20Boy%2C%20
Necromunda%2C%20Stargrave.jpeg[/img][/url]

Best thing I've seen on the internet in weeks. Thanks!

Exalted!

**CthuluIsSpy**

Which was an odd attempt at trying to explain why everyone is aping the Cadians.

It would have made a lot more sense fluff wise if guard armour was being standardized for logistics reason and they went with the Cadian style of armour because it was deemed to be cheap and effective enough to be mass produced.
Some regiments have the means of producing enough adequate armour for their troops, so they haven't adopted the "standard" model.

That's much more natural than "Cadians are so kewl everyone wants to be one."

**H.B.M.C.**

insaniak wrote:
Astra Imperialguardium

Ok, that I hadn't seen before.

**insaniak**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Which was an odd attempt at trying to explain why everyone is aping the Cadians.

It would have made a lot more sense fluff wise if guard armour was being standardized for logistics reason and they went with the Cadian style of armour because it was deemed to be cheap and effective enough to be mass produced.
Some regiments have the means of producing enough adequate armour for their troops, so they haven't adopted the "standard" model.

That's much more natural than "Cadians are so kewl everyone wants to be one."

The 3.5 ed codex mentions 'successful' uniform designs being copied by other regiments. On consideration, I don't recall where the 'Cadians are the standard gear' thing came from, and it may well have been just something that people just sort of assumed from the model range.

Although, you know, once upon a time Guard were all the same gear in different colours...

The second ed models also shared some gear - Catachans had the same pants and boots as Cadians, just without the jacket and helmet, and Valhallans had Mordian trousers and boots with a trenchoat and furry hat.

**H.B.M.C.**

That might've just been to speed up the sculpting process. They did a lot of that back then.

**tneva82**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Huh, there's a thought. How many planets are in the Cadia system? Could the Cadians just relocate to another planet?

Planet, system, sector.

Also exact same uniform is used by millions of regiments. So even if there was literally no cadian raised regiment left in the universum model would still be relevant

Also don't expect tons of different plastic regiments...Even 3 would be pushing. Are there ulthwe guardians? Evil sun ork boy models? Leviathan hormagaunts? Nihilik immortals?

IG isn't marine selling and even there it's more of shoulder pads/special units. There isn't exactly swarm of different intercessor/infiltrator/etc kits for different chapters(especially ones that aren't just standard kit + shoulder pad upgrade sprue). So unless IG players are happy to have similar(shoulder pad upgrades for different regiments to work on same base kit and maybe odd special unit per regiment) don't expect to get more than the big seller of 40k. If they don't get it don't expect niche faction to get it either.

**Olthannon**

tneva82 wrote:

Also don't expect tons of different plastic regiments...Even 3 would be pushing. Are there ulthwe guardians? Evil sun ork boy models? Leviathan hormagaunts? Nihilik immortals?

Yeah except a big thing about the Imperial Guard is that they are meant to be totally different. Each regiment is supposed to be unique because of all those billions of planets. The Guard are meant to be the variety and spice of human life.

If the Cadians were a spice, they would be flour.

I don't care that ooh Cadia is a sector or ooh standard kit or whatever. GW had an opportunity with Cadia being destroyed to push the Guard in a bit of a new direction. A little bit of variety to refresh that. Sure we don't get Evil Sun Orks or whatever but we do get sixty million upgrade sprues for space marines. And also we did get Ulthwé Guardians, that was what storm guardians were.

It's not asking for much to have a kit with the opportunity to create different Guard units.

**JWBS**

Check out "Imitation Legions". Also, it kinda is asking a lot to have several flavours of guard, like back in the day. Don't get me wrong, I'd personally like it a lot, but that shelf space and the development resources have to come from somewhere, and it would be taken from other factions and game systems, which would be bad news for them, just so we could have Guard But They Look Different (multiplied by several).

**Geifer**

JWBS wrote:
Check out "Imitation Legions". Also, it kinda is asking a lot to have several flavours of guard, like back in the day. Don't get me wrong, I'd personally like it a lot, but that shelf space and the development resources have to come from somewhere, and it would be taken from other factions and game systems, which would be bad news for them, just so we could have Guard But They Look Different (multiplied by several).

It seems like a lot if you want it all at once. But if GW had just released three kits (infantry, command, heavy weapons) every five years instead of zero kits every five years like they've been doing for twenty years, we'd be almost up to 2nd ed levels of regiment variety by now. I could live with every other wave of Marine releases coming with three kits less if those resources were allocated like this instead.

**Undead_Love-Machine**

So I'm wondering why GW released the Cadian upgrade sprue with all of the extra heads and weapons if they were going to replace the Cadian kit in the near future?

For this reson alone I'm guessing that the Cadian troops seen in the background must be a veteran kit, and the current troops are going nowhere.

I know I'm a bit late to the party with this, please forgive me

**Kid_Kyoto**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
That might've just been to speed up the sculpting process. They did a lot of that back then.

One of the neat things about miniatures is how the logistics of sculpting and tooling molds end up mirroring real life.

In the real world once a military finds a platform that works they use it for all sorts of variants since that's easier than making a new vehicle from scratch. And it's the same for miniatures.

Infantry end up with the same canteens and rifles so sculptors (digital and clay) can reuse bits and save time.

**xttz**

Geifer wrote:
JWBS wrote:
Check out "Imitation Legions". Also, it kinda is asking a lot to have several flavours of guard, like back in the day. Don't get me wrong, I'd personally like it a lot, but that shelf space and the development resources have to come from somewhere, and it would be taken from other factions and game systems, which would be bad news for them, just so we could have Guard But They Look Different (multiplied by several).

It seems like a lot if you want it all at once. But if GW had just released three kits (infantry, command, heavy weapons) every five years instead of zero kits every five years like they've been doing for twenty years, we'd be almost up to 2nd ed levels of regiment variety by now. I could live with every other wave of Marine releases coming with three kits less if those resources were allocated like this instead.

Even if they spread it out that still means something else coming off the schedule to make room. There is a finite amount of design, tooling, and production time available. Sure GW could have 6 or 7 different IG regiments, but that requires resources that otherwise go into more interesting things like Eldar Corsairs or Renegade Guard Kill Teams.

I reckon by the time the codex comes we'll end up with a middle ground of about 3 regiments in GW plastic, When most armies have 5-7 sub-factions to pick from I very much doubt there will be rules support for only 2-3 guard regiments. At the very least we'll retain build-your-own regiment rules, plus as they've done before there'll be some suggestions for custom designs via GW's own kits like GSC cultists / Skitarii / Necromunda gangers.

I also think it's a good thing if there's a market space for 3rd party designers such as Victoria Lamb. There's no reason why GW should have to produce official Mordian or Valhallan models for you to use an army with that theme.

**KillerAngel**

xttz wrote:
I also think it's a good thing if there's a market space for 3rd party designers such as Victoria Lamb. There's no reason why GW should have to produce official Mordian or Valhallan models for you to use an army with that theme.

Exactly this. GW will always look at it's investments in resources in terms of expected return. Maybe multiple regiments doesn't meet that return goal because it splits the IG market across more kits (those that would buy whatever IG kits exist), while only capturing a limited amount of new market (those who would buy Valhallans, for example, but not Cadians). Those other regiments might have a smaller market value that isn't worth it for GW to go after, but prime for 3rd party creators.
100% supposition on my part. Just wish GW was more supportive of the 3rd party realm.

**JWBS**

Supporting your competitors rarely makes sense for your shareholders, no matter the relative size of your company or theirs.

**KillerAngel**

JWBS wrote:
Supporting your competitors rarely makes sense for your shareholders, no matter the relative size of your company or theirs.

I don't disagree, but there is room within a company's strategic vision for assigning value to growth through means other than the quantitative investment/return/cashflow regime. It was more of an editorial comment on my end, but there is a middle ground between actively supporting and actively fighting. Think of it like building and maintaining brand perception. I wouldn't be so bold as to think I know more than GW, so just my thoughts.

**kodos**

JWBS wrote:
Supporting your competitors rarely makes sense for your shareholders, no matter the relative size of your company or theirs.

the main thing going for GW games is the larger playerbase and GW knows this
so 3rd party companies help to fill in the numbers to maintain the playerbase GW needs to sell their stuff, it is more like a f2p game, just that in this case 3rd party designer and russian servers are the "free" part as you can get into the game for much less

**Apologist**

xttz wrote:
Geifer wrote:
JWBS wrote:
[...] it kinda is asking a lot to have several flavours of guard, like back in the day. Don't get me wrong, I'd personally like it a lot, but that shelf space and the development resources have to come from somewhere, and it would be taken from other factions and game systems, which would be bad news for them, just so we could have Guard But They Look Different (multiplied by several).

It seems like a lot if you want it all at once. But if GW had just released three kits (infantry, command, heavy weapons) every five years instead of zero kits every five years like they've been doing for twenty years, we'd be almost up to 2nd ed levels of regiment variety by now. I could live with every other wave of Marine releases coming with three kits less if those resources were allocated like this instead.

Even if they spread it out that still means something else coming off the schedule to make room. There is a finite amount of design, tooling, and production time available. Sure GW could have 6 or 7 different IG regiments, but that requires resources that otherwise go into more interesting things like Eldar Corsairs or Renegade Guard Kill Teams.

I think we're much on the same page here; that it'd be nice to have Guard variants, but it's hard to justify them from a business perspective if they're simply aesthetically different.

The implication, then, is that differentiation in Guard regiments (or ork craftworlds, or eldar craftworlds) could be possible if the same approach was taken as for Space Marines: i.e. a sub-Codex that leans into a particular specialisation. The neat thing about Guard is that as the tanks and vehicles are all universal, it really only require three kits to create a different regiment: a command box, infantry box and 'other' (unique to the regiment). That allows a business argument to be made. Codex: Catachan, for example, would allow for a very different playstyle to Codex: Cadia.

That we now have additional ways of 'sneaking things in' - via Kill Team releases, or standalone games for example - I don't think it's beyond the bounds of possibility that we'll see Guard of different types pop up. The Death Korps are a perfect example. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Catachan Devils (for example) turn up as a Kill Team. They're very much low-hanging fruit: if you release a kit that makes an elite Catachan squad build (like the DK veterans) as well as standard infantry squads, you've suddenly got an entire Catachan army available.

**Pyroalchi**

Something I always wonder about:
A variety of 3rd party companies that more or less obviously specialize in alternative guard (Victoria, Anvil and Wargames Atlantic come to my mind) are obviously profitably companies. Yet their total value is relatively small compared to GW. wouldn't it economically make sense to buy one or two of those, let them just keep their business model, but make those "officially approved" for use in GW stores and tournaments?

In the end players could use the minis for alternative regiments they seem to already buy en masse there, GW would not have to develop or produce those, the mentioned 3rd party companies would continue as usual (if they were profitable so far, they should be profitable afterwards) and meanwhile GW would kind of reduce competetion.

But then again, what do I know of economy. *shrugg*

**Undead_Love-Machine**

I don't think that it would be a financial gamble for GW to produce different regiments in plastic.

It's what, three different kits per regiment (troops, command, heavy weapons)?

There are plenty of examples accross the board of plastic GW kits that are way more niche, the price of HIPs production is much lower for GW than it used to be.

**Bobthehero**

I'd say 4-5 kits.

Troops, Command, Heavy, Veterans/Grenadiers (Whatever thematically works better for the Regiment)

Maybe a crew upgrade box for vehicles, though those can probably be added to the vehicle box itself