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So the Book of Ruin Genestealers aren't being squatted, and the Malstrain would seem not to get hybrids.

Six (or seven, or eight) Forge World resin Malstrain upgrade head sets incoming?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Actually since the inquisitor that ordered the bombardment declared the infestation dealt with, all Helmawr has to do is claim he’s keeping guard on the rift to “make sure” and he’s just suitably paranoid and prepared.


Also I think some people are forgetting just how backwards the average world is in 40K; almost none of them have global information networks, most of them don’t even have what you would call a telephone service and even for the ones that do I guarantee that off-world long distance charges are insane. So who, exactly, is going to tell? Essentially you would have to have an inquisitor decide that the prior solution wasn’t enough (when it really should have been, TBF) and go and personally inquisit the place, all without Helmawr noticing and coming up with a way to delay or divert them. Y’know, like the totally-not-khornate meat-gangs.

Imperial Fist: 'Halmawr old bean, what's with the big wall you're building?'
Halmawr: 'Oh, no reason'
Imperial Fist: 'Okey doke!'

Not the place of Astartes to overly fiddle in planetary politics.

Mutation is kind of expected within The Imperium, and so all potential recruits are screened for such as part of, erm, the recruitment process.

Plus. As per the background? The squishing of Hive Secundus was an Inquisitor’s doing. And I’m pretty sure the Imperial Fist Garrison would’ve known about it. The building of the wall is precautionary measure. And a pretty sensible one.

One could even argue the Garrison aren’t at all concerned at stupid smelly mortals going into the ruins as they would be about anything getting out.

Well even that article says the Fists don't get out much.

I'm the "Necromunda is the obvious truth about the Imperium that 40k spins like crazy" parody universe I am currently building in my head, the explanation is that Space Marines are pious, belligerent, and moronic.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

One could even argue the Garrison aren’t at all concerned at stupid smelly mortals going into the ruins as they would be about anything getting out.

They just have to implement infiltration protocol checks on everybody exiting the hive.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0812.html

barnacle111 wrote:
Is there any more info on the suggested co-op play? Or do we think that was a warhammer community error?

(Thinking of getting this to play with my son if there is a good ai system for the malstrains..)

It looks like that may be coming with the separate book.


Worth mentioning that "The Arbitrator" is meant to be kind of a DM/GM from what I can remember.

 privateer4hire wrote:
GW uses all non 40k games as test beds for 40k. AoS lets them test rules and approaches like simplifying options, removal of the old STR v Toughness, etc. Necromunda is their undead experiment. What if they sold a never ending, rapid succession of editions but just never admitted to it? Would people still buy for fear of losing the guaranteed player base?

Not correct at all. You are talking apples and oranges in regards to the game systems. 40K had a separate design group then the Specialist games did. As time progressed, for 40K We haven't had as solid and established team as the days of yore with Andy, Jervis, Paul, Rick and the rest. As a matter of fact, We haven't had a solid rules team in going on 4 years now.

I will tell you from experience that Necromunda is Necromunda.
Yes, 40k players play it, but Necromunda players OWN it. If a rule doesn't fit, we toss it, and develop another one at the game club, or check with the player base, where it has more then likly already been discussed. As to buying- the problems are many on that front. Problem 1 amongst them in that all of the additional characters are unattainable, unless you sacrifice a small country for them. The "Edition creep" not so much, because if you get into Necromunda, you get your basic gang, and go with that, and then later buy more, to fill out your own with. either to kit bash the characters, or to convert the models to new ones. THAT has always been the allure of the game- home brewed and home made.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
So the surviving genestealer infestation is supposed to be a big ol' secret, but young nobles routinely go and fight genestealers.
That... seems like a surefire way of having the secret get out.
I dunno; everybody seems like an idiot because the plot requires them to be...

It's an Open Secret. Those that dwell in the underhive know all about them, as a hazard of living. Those that live in the ivory tower think they know, and act like they have hidden knowledge of them. Hive Secundus was discussed briefly in the Outlanders book. There were no less then 3 or 4 hives of different stripe that held their own secrets and hazards, such as The Hive of the Dead, Chaos Hive, Ork Hive, and indirectly- Secondus- the Genestealer and mutations hive (Scavvies, Ratskins, Pit Slaves, and Redemptionist crusades.)

I'm posting this link for reference...

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Necromunda_(planet)#The_Hives

BTW- The Genestealers- across the board, are tough as nails. I had a campaign back in the early days where we had 6 rando's running around on the board, a 4 x 4 at the time. The Stealers- 6 of them, tabled the gangs, and wiped the floor with them.

Our game group ended up putting a few tables together with expansive Space Hulk, Tyranid Attack, and Dungeon tiles together that was extensive. The tunnels campaign ended up having squads of Space Marine scouts, Arbiter teams, and an Inquisition envoy show up. The stealers made work of them, as well...

In the end- be cautious when you add them. Genestaelers are top tier threats.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/07/18/hive-secundus-the-van-saar-tek-hunters-are-on-a-desperate-mission-to-save-their-house/

The art for this has been phenomenal.

Let's see, the Goliath medic will have a bag of dirt.
"Rub some dirt on it, and walk it off!"

 SgtEeveell wrote:
Let's see, the Goliath medic will have a bag of dirt.
"Rub some dirt on it, and walk it off!"

No, he'll just prescribe more 'roids. 'Roids cure everything.

The Gangs and Genestealers of Hive Secundus, Painted by the Warhammer Studio

Connor got mad underpaint game but forgot to do the actual painting

those malstrains are a thing of beauty. that first one in particular is incredible

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

twoseventwo wrote:

 YodhrinsForge wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
So the surviving genestealer infestation is supposed to be a big ol' secret, but young nobles routinely go and fight genestealers.
That... seems like a surefire way of having the secret get out.
I dunno; everybody seems like an idiot because the plot requires them to be...

We passed that stage at "the Van Saar have a fully functional STC that they've kept secret for centuries despite wandering around openly using rad weapons, micro-grav tech, and unknown patterns of weapon for most of that time". N17 is the most switch-brain-off-upon-entry narrative GW have produced in a long time.

Necromunda lore is canon, 40k lore is propaganda. The Inquisiton might want you to think it is all-seeing, but actually it can't tell its arse from its elbow. Helmawr just has to place the odd bribe or two.

(, obviously)

Oh the Van Saar thing is pretty straight forward. -snip-

Yeah, sorry, no. It's a functional STC system. The Mechanicus' holy grail. They would burn whole worlds to ash for the opportunity to acquire just an intact printout of a single STC pattern, there is no situation in which the presence of a complete, functional STC system on an Imperial world wouldn't result in either that device being ceded to the Mechanicus immediately under the terms of the Treaty of Mars, or civil war if those terms aren't honoured. That means the Van Saar having one is completely and utterly dependent on the idea that the Mechanicus never even get a single inkling that it exists and that is so implausible given the other circumstances that surround it, it can only exist by authorial fiat; it is because it is, shut up nerds.

People talk about the whole "governors can run things as they see fit if they pay their tithe" part of the fluff but they - and the authors of Newcromunda it seems - have forgotten the rest of that bargain; obeying Imperial Law, of which the tithe is only one part. It also means recognising the Adepta and their representatives: you pay your Tithe *and* you allow the presence of and recognise the domain of the Administratum; you offer up any psykers you discover to the Black Ships *and* you allow the presence of and recognise the Inquisition and Astra Telepathica; you adhere to the Lex Imperialis *and* you permit the Arbites to enforce it within your domain; and also you adhere to the terms of the Treaty of Mars *and* you allow the representatives of the Mechanicus to monitor your compliance. Even if Necromunda is such a special case and Helmawr such an adept political operator that he's managed to find a way to *completely* segregate and isolate the Imperial Adepta(and recall, the entire Secundus plotline is contingent on him not being able to do that since it starts with a Magos Biologis moving in and doing whatever the heck he wanted to), the Cold Trade exists and Necromunda is positively heaving with archeotech hunters who would at least be capable of recognising that the Van Saar have *something* unique going on - so in literal centuries, not one single, solitary person has been able to get a message offworld to a Mechanicus-aligned contact telling them something is up? Every single one of the doubtless numerous Explorators who've snuck on to the planet over those centuries to hunt for archeotech themselves has been silenced before they could report in?

If people want to adopt the view that it's all silly make believe and so it doesn't matter, it's cool so just don't think about it too hard that's a perfectly acceptable way to look at things, but don't try and argue that it actually does make sense because it simply doesn't.

Oh and as to the Spyrers, the issue with them is more thematic in that the Newcromunda version misses the point; they weren't hunting gangers because that's a huge challenge and they were meritocratic noblemen seeking to prove ye worthy, they were hunting gangers because they were psychopathic aristocrats with no appreciation for life hunting the plebs for sport - high tech fox hunting. I suppose portraying the rich as amoral monsters is the wrong kind of political these days though.

I really need to see the new Spyrers done up in the 90s color schemes. I bet they would look awesome.

 Scottywan82 wrote:
I really need to see the new Spyrers done up in the 90s color schemes. I bet they would look awesome.

You know how that happens. Grab a box and get painting

 YodhrinsForge wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

twoseventwo wrote:

 YodhrinsForge wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
So the surviving genestealer infestation is supposed to be a big ol' secret, but young nobles routinely go and fight genestealers.
That... seems like a surefire way of having the secret get out.
I dunno; everybody seems like an idiot because the plot requires them to be...

We passed that stage at "the Van Saar have a fully functional STC that they've kept secret for centuries despite wandering around openly using rad weapons, micro-grav tech, and unknown patterns of weapon for most of that time". N17 is the most switch-brain-off-upon-entry narrative GW have produced in a long time.

Necromunda lore is canon, 40k lore is propaganda. The Inquisiton might want you to think it is all-seeing, but actually it can't tell its arse from its elbow. Helmawr just has to place the odd bribe or two.

(, obviously)

Oh the Van Saar thing is pretty straight forward. -snip-

Yeah, sorry, no. It's a functional STC system. The Mechanicus' holy grail. They would burn whole worlds to ash for the opportunity to acquire just an intact printout of a single STC pattern, there is no situation in which the presence of a complete, functional STC system on an Imperial world wouldn't result in either that device being ceded to the Mechanicus immediately under the terms of the Treaty of Mars, or civil war if those terms aren't honoured. That means the Van Saar having one is completely and utterly dependent on the idea that the Mechanicus never even get a single inkling that it exists and that is so implausible given the other circumstances that surround it, it can only exist by authorial fiat; it is because it is, shut up nerds.

People talk about the whole "governors can run things as they see fit if they pay their tithe" part of the fluff but they - and the authors of Newcromunda it seems - have forgotten the rest of that bargain; obeying Imperial Law, of which the tithe is only one part. It also means recognising the Adepta and their representatives: you pay your Tithe *and* you allow the presence of and recognise the domain of the Administratum; you offer up any psykers you discover to the Black Ships *and* you allow the presence of and recognise the Inquisition and Astra Telepathica; you adhere to the Lex Imperialis *and* you permit the Arbites to enforce it within your domain; and also you adhere to the terms of the Treaty of Mars *and* you allow the representatives of the Mechanicus to monitor your compliance. Even if Necromunda is such a special case and Helmawr such an adept political operator that he's managed to find a way to *completely* segregate and isolate the Imperial Adepta(and recall, the entire Secundus plotline is contingent on him not being able to do that since it starts with a Magos Biologis moving in and doing whatever the heck he wanted to), the Cold Trade exists and Necromunda is positively heaving with archeotech hunters who would at least be capable of recognising that the Van Saar have *something* unique going on - so in literal centuries, not one single, solitary person has been able to get a message offworld to a Mechanicus-aligned contact telling them something is up? Every single one of the doubtless numerous Explorators who've snuck on to the planet over those centuries to hunt for archeotech themselves has been silenced before they could report in?

If people want to adopt the view that it's all silly make believe and so it doesn't matter, it's cool so just don't think about it too hard that's a perfectly acceptable way to look at things, but don't try and argue that it actually does make sense because it simply doesn't.

I agree that a supposedly complete and nearly intact STC hiding in a major Imperial hive world in a core region is a bit unbelievable. At least with said system in active use. Not to mention the tech just doesn't seem that advanced compared to standard Imperial gear. It would be much more plausible if they simply had some kind of archeotech production line but not an entire STC. The whole thing feels very fanfic.

I don't think the same applies to genestealers though. Genestealers are all over the place and only the wackiest Inquisition nuts advocate virus bombing all of them, especially on lynchpin worlds like Necromunda.

Oh and as to the Spyrers, the issue with them is more thematic in that the Newcromunda version misses the point; they weren't hunting gangers because that's a huge challenge and they were meritocratic noblemen seeking to prove ye worthy, they were hunting gangers because they were psychopathic aristocrats with no appreciation for life hunting the plebs for sport - high tech fox hunting. I suppose portraying the rich as amoral monsters is the wrong kind of political these days though.

Eh, they state in the article they do both, but downplay the "normal" underhive because it isn't the hot new product.

Historically and currently rich people do dangerous sports too for various reasons, like hunting boar with a spear in medieval Europe or rich people today hunting leopards or cape buffalo on foot. These carry significant risk to the rich asshats doing it.

Still not feeling the Spryers, maybe it's the paint job but they're really just not calling out to me.

Do prefer the Spyrers in a different colour than the initial one, but still think there's something about them that seems a bit lacking compared to the vairiety of the original models.

 Haighus wrote:

 YodhrinsForge wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

twoseventwo wrote:

 YodhrinsForge wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
So the surviving genestealer infestation is supposed to be a big ol' secret, but young nobles routinely go and fight genestealers.
That... seems like a surefire way of having the secret get out.
I dunno; everybody seems like an idiot because the plot requires them to be...

We passed that stage at "the Van Saar have a fully functional STC that they've kept secret for centuries despite wandering around openly using rad weapons, micro-grav tech, and unknown patterns of weapon for most of that time". N17 is the most switch-brain-off-upon-entry narrative GW have produced in a long time.

Necromunda lore is canon, 40k lore is propaganda. The Inquisiton might want you to think it is all-seeing, but actually it can't tell its arse from its elbow. Helmawr just has to place the odd bribe or two.

(, obviously)

Oh the Van Saar thing is pretty straight forward. -snip-

Necromunda is positively heaving with archeotech hunters who would at least be capable of recognising that the Van Saar have *something* unique going on

.

Archeotech Hunters would be hunting for Archeotech , as in ancient examples of lost tech rather than something brand new and recently manufactured. The Van Saar aren't particularly running around with something that's so extremely out of place at first glance that the only answer to where they got it is that they have an STC. They've got grav tech and energyshields and such but even those aren't so far beyond what might potentially be found on an Imperial World that they're immediately obvious, a lot of what they're using can feasibly be considered relativaly typical Imperial tech that they've made to high standards and/or given their own style.

Grav Tech can’t be as rare as we’re lead to believe. Consider the humble, ubiquitous and incredibly common Servo Skull. Whilst only dinky? Those all make use of anti-grav technology.

It seems it’s rare on the battlefield because it’s an absolute sod to repair compared to wheels, treads or legs, both in terms of the knowledge and parts required.

Yea GW writing isn't always the smartest. We're also supposed to believe that gyro stabilized walkers (something we currently still struggle with) are cheaper and easier for Cawdor to maintain than wheels.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Grav Tech can’t be as rare as we’re lead to believe. Consider the humble, ubiquitous and incredibly common Servo Skull. Whilst only dinky? Those all make use of anti-grav technology.

It seems it’s rare on the battlefield because it’s an absolute sod to repair compared to wheels, treads or legs, both in terms of the knowledge and parts required.

The Imperium can make skull-sized anti-grav generators, but ONLY skull-sized anti-grav generators, so making them for vehicles requires soldering a whole bunch together and then hoping you don't blow the fuse.

Any bets whether the new box will make it to Christmas? Or is it a FOMO blast?

Looks like a nice set, but things are a bit tight just now.

 Flinty wrote:
Any bets whether the new box will make it to Christmas? Or is it a FOMO blast?

Looks like a nice set, but things are a bit tight just now.

It's never going to make it to Christmas. Maybe ask someone else to get it for you now and pay them later.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
Any bets whether the new box will make it to Christmas? Or is it a FOMO blast?

Looks like a nice set, but things are a bit tight just now.

It's never going to make it to Christmas. Maybe ask someone else to get it for you now and pay them later.

It depends upon whether or not it's meant to be the 'season starter'.

Ash Wastes sold out initially, but saw restocks.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Still not feeling the Spryers, maybe it's the paint job but they're really just not calling out to me.

Me neither. They are cool models, but not Spyrers. The rest of the OG updates felt like just that: updates. These feel like a new design shoehorned into the role of Spyrers.

 YodhrinsForge wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

twoseventwo wrote:

 YodhrinsForge wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
So the surviving genestealer infestation is supposed to be a big ol' secret, but young nobles routinely go and fight genestealers.
That... seems like a surefire way of having the secret get out.
I dunno; everybody seems like an idiot because the plot requires them to be...

We passed that stage at "the Van Saar have a fully functional STC that they've kept secret for centuries despite wandering around openly using rad weapons, micro-grav tech, and unknown patterns of weapon for most of that time". N17 is the most switch-brain-off-upon-entry narrative GW have produced in a long time.

Necromunda lore is canon, 40k lore is propaganda. The Inquisiton might want you to think it is all-seeing, but actually it can't tell its arse from its elbow. Helmawr just has to place the odd bribe or two.

(, obviously)

Oh the Van Saar thing is pretty straight forward. -snip-

Yeah, sorry, no. It's a functional STC system. The Mechanicus' holy grail. They would burn whole worlds to ash for the opportunity to acquire just an intact printout of a single STC pattern, there is no situation in which the presence of a complete, functional STC system on an Imperial world wouldn't result in either that device being ceded to the Mechanicus immediately under the terms of the Treaty of Mars, or civil war if those terms aren't honoured. That means the Van Saar having one is completely and utterly dependent on the idea that the Mechanicus never even get a single inkling that it exists and that is so implausible given the other circumstances that surround it, it can only exist by authorial fiat; it is because it is, shut up nerds.

People talk about the whole "governors can run things as they see fit if they pay their tithe" part of the fluff but they - and the authors of Newcromunda it seems - have forgotten the rest of that bargain; obeying Imperial Law, of which the tithe is only one part. It also means recognising the Adepta and their representatives: you pay your Tithe *and* you allow the presence of and recognise the domain of the Administratum; you offer up any psykers you discover to the Black Ships *and* you allow the presence of and recognise the Inquisition and Astra Telepathica; you adhere to the Lex Imperialis *and* you permit the Arbites to enforce it within your domain; and also you adhere to the terms of the Treaty of Mars *and* you allow the representatives of the Mechanicus to monitor your compliance. Even if Necromunda is such a special case and Helmawr such an adept political operator that he's managed to find a way to *completely* segregate and isolate the Imperial Adepta(and recall, the entire Secundus plotline is contingent on him not being able to do that since it starts with a Magos Biologis moving in and doing whatever the heck he wanted to), the Cold Trade exists and Necromunda is positively heaving with archeotech hunters who would at least be capable of recognising that the Van Saar have *something* unique going on - so in literal centuries, not one single, solitary person has been able to get a message offworld to a Mechanicus-aligned contact telling them something is up? Every single one of the doubtless numerous Explorators who've snuck on to the planet over those centuries to hunt for archeotech themselves has been silenced before they could report in?

If people want to adopt the view that it's all silly make believe and so it doesn't matter, it's cool so just don't think about it too hard that's a perfectly acceptable way to look at things, but don't try and argue that it actually does make sense because it simply doesn't.

Oh and as to the Spyrers, the issue with them is more thematic in that the Newcromunda version misses the point; they weren't hunting gangers because that's a huge challenge and they were meritocratic noblemen seeking to prove ye worthy, they were hunting gangers because they were psychopathic aristocrats with no appreciation for life hunting the plebs for sport - high tech fox hunting. I suppose portraying the rich as amoral monsters is the wrong kind of political these days though.

It makes sense. GW just needs to make sure that they put writers on it that know what they are talking about.
The Mechanicus have a contingent on Necromunda that supports the STC and the tech hunt. They participate in it themselves as well, because there was some lost STC technology that is still out there from the days of the great expansion. It is written in the material that Necromunda produces and distributes various Goods and Services through the Imperium. (Van Sar Pattern Las Rifle Carabines and Long las rifles are some of them.) THAT is why they are called the House of Artifice.

Agree with you, though- It is just that GW hasn't done a good job of carrying the material to the natural progression. You haven't discussed the Necromunda 8th, and the Imperial Hive, which houses all of the off world Imperium functions, as well as The Necromunda 8th Command and Control, and Fortress Monastery of Space Marines for the sector. (Imperial Fists, Blood Angels, and Ultramarines)

 YodhrinsForge wrote:
Yeah, sorry, no. It's a functional STC system. The Mechanicus' holy grail. They would burn whole worlds to ash for the opportunity to acquire just an intact printout of a single STC pattern, there is no situation in which the presence of a complete, functional STC system on an Imperial world wouldn't result in either that device being ceded to the Mechanicus immediately under the terms of the Treaty of Mars, or civil war if those terms aren't honoured. That means the Van Saar having one is completely and utterly dependent on the idea that the Mechanicus never even get a single inkling that it exists and that is so implausible given the other circumstances that surround it, it can only exist by authorial fiat; it is because it is, shut up nerds.

The Mechanicus is not omniscient. Chaos and Genestealer cults can go for centuries without being discovered, often involving a much bigger number of possible leaks, so an STC evading capture is not beyond possibility. It's the exception that proves the rule; nothing in the Imperium is perfect, and gak is always slipping through the cracks.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 YodhrinsForge wrote:
Yeah, sorry, no. It's a functional STC system. The Mechanicus' holy grail. They would burn whole worlds to ash for the opportunity to acquire just an intact printout of a single STC pattern, there is no situation in which the presence of a complete, functional STC system on an Imperial world wouldn't result in either that device being ceded to the Mechanicus immediately under the terms of the Treaty of Mars, or civil war if those terms aren't honoured. That means the Van Saar having one is completely and utterly dependent on the idea that the Mechanicus never even get a single inkling that it exists and that is so implausible given the other circumstances that surround it, it can only exist by authorial fiat; it is because it is, shut up nerds.

The Mechanicus is not omniscient. Chaos and Genestealer cults can go for centuries without being discovered, often involving a much bigger number of possible leaks, so an STC evading capture is not beyond possibility. It's the exception that proves the rule; nothing in the Imperium is perfect, and gak is always slipping through the cracks.

"xxx is not omniscient" is the answer to most of these lore questions. we, the players, know about many unique and exciting and interesting things which can have the potential for narrative, but characters within the universe have significantly less knowledge than we do. as you say, gak is always slipping through the cracks. gak slipping through the cracks is what makes the narrative interesting