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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Flame templates halving in size (yes, direct conflict with them getting biggerer)

Why? Doubling + Halfing = they stay as they are.

This reads and sounds like they make jokes about those "It will be.." made up rumours from all around the Internet....


Heared the box will have 80 Mk2 and 80 Mk4 Marines

 Gert wrote:

 kodos wrote:
Just some random guy who unknowingly got feed with material intented for him because rumours and leaks are better hype creators than official announcements

Or, like most Warhammer content creators (ugh hate that term), they have legit connections to people who work at GW by going to events, chatting to employees and being sort-of journalists (for toy soldiers exclusively that is). It's not some big conspiracy my dude, people who work at companies leak stuff all the time, intentionally or unintentionally.

My favorite is people who refer to Games Workshop as a single living entity. Typically evil, with other companies like Mantic and Warlord being scrappy rebels. Foundry, Perry bros, Wargames Illustrated, Caliver Books, and Battlefront's UK HQ, among many others, all in the same place.

There's no big conspiracy. Nottingham isn't huge. Everybody is a few degrees of separation from everybody else in the industry, and many of them game and drink together. Their socials are full of pics of people from various companies playing games together. Hell, sometimes you'll see various names pop up in various groups in FB, like when I saw Rob A (from TOW/Middle Earth) posting in a Vor The Maelstrom fb group the other day. "Leaks" are almost certainly attributed to friends having a pint.

I have very little truck with "deliberate leak" theories. Just because I have worked in a bunch of major corporations who have been accused of such and they never were.

Big companies are always much more dysfunctional than people think, and much more leaky.

Also leak detection is very (very) hard and companies genuinely often talk the talk about it but then are not willing to spend any money actually investigating things when it actually comes down to it.

And lets face it most of the time there isn't the "damage" to make it worth investing much. Esp for a firm like GW.

Anything that isn't tied to a 3rd party IP (basically just Lord of the Ring stuff) is basically their own product; their own control and the worst that happens is a bunch of their already die-hard and spending fanbase is - excited to spend money on an upcoming thing.

It might mess with sales metrics a bit but likely in a way that isn't really detectable.


So if a new thing is coming and it gets leaked its - well its not really a disaster. Yes GW doesn't want leaks and wants to control their marketing and info release; but in the end its not worth it to them to invest vast amounts.

The only time it is is for that lucrative 3rd party and even then I'd wager that Lord of the Rings stuff has likely eased off considerably from the height of the films.
That might get turned back on again if GW retains the licence and new films come out and they work on models for them.

the worst part that happened from a "leak" in the past was that a 3rd party company had (physical) models ready the moment GW released theirs

Chaos knights model loadout and name correctly called whilst we're score keeping on the minimal chance rumours are going to be wrong.

Dudeface wrote:
Chaos knights model loadout and name correctly called whilst we're score keeping on the minimal chance rumours are going to be wrong.

That release of a single update sprue each is the only thing both 40k factions get for the next years to come though. I'm fine waiting a few weeks.

the other bad thing about finding out who a leaker inside the company is, is it's often somebody senior enough that a company may well not want to actually do anything about it...

but once they've made a point of looking they have to or they look weak

far better to stick to looking at what the playtesters and youtube folks with access to relatively short term stuff (and probably minimal support amongst senior staff yo don't want to upset)

Leaks are a way to make poeple want to buy those produckts they see it as free ads. It could be gw is leaking some rumours them self.

whats a better way for your products then free hype.

When i did some work for gw as an outrider.
In the early 2000 we would get stuf early so we could have a painted army when they would be released. and we got release dates for new produckts.

Put yourself in GW’s shoes specifically.

You don’t have much fear of being one upped. Your product is pretty unique, you control the IP, and if anyone takes the mick ripping off said IP, you’ve the depth of pocket to ruin them.

Ever since I’ve been cluttering up Forums (25+ years), we’ve loved a rumour, especially one that turns out to be true. And because you get some right funny ‘uns online? False Rumours can lead to complaints against you. No, I don’t understand it either.

Rumours gain hype. Hype can be turned to sales. Sales is good, sales is what you’re all about.

Taken together? Giving out “sanctioned” leaks is beneficial. It generates the heat, it generates the hype. And it clearly works in getting those sales.

This isn’t like many other industries. There’s no corporate espionage or selling of top secrets to damage you. And as said, anyone found taking the mick can and will be sued into oblivion, even if you don’t get much further than a quick Cease and Desist.

Not to mention the other thing which is that even if models make a bulk of sales in their launch period - your product as a whole isn't short term. Barring a few outliers (Warhammer Quest) the core games have shelf lives measured in decades and Old World has really proven that hard!

Will the Knight Defender get 30K rules, or will it be excluded like the Dominus chassis?

Trying to talk about 30K- Valrak credability and GW business and leaks are their own topic

The real genius of Horus Hearsay is that its a joke, we all know its a joke, we talk about it being a joke, but they publish a joke like flamer templates halving in size (right after they previoisly posted about them doubling) and half of us spiral into discussions about how new flamer template sizes might be legit and how itll work.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Gert wrote:

 kodos wrote:
Just some random guy who unknowingly got feed with material intented for him because rumours and leaks are better hype creators than official announcements

Or, like most Warhammer content creators (ugh hate that term), they have legit connections to people who work at GW by going to events, chatting to employees and being sort-of journalists (for toy soldiers exclusively that is). It's not some big conspiracy my dude, people who work at companies leak stuff all the time, intentionally or unintentionally.

My favorite is people who refer to Games Workshop as a single living entity. Typically evil, with other companies like Mantic and Warlord being scrappy rebels. Foundry, Perry bros, Wargames Illustrated, Caliver Books, and Battlefront's UK HQ, among many others, all in the same place.

There's no big conspiracy. Nottingham isn't huge. Everybody is a few degrees of separation from everybody else in the industry, and many of them game and drink together. Their socials are full of pics of people from various companies playing games together. Hell, sometimes you'll see various names pop up in various groups in FB, like when I saw Rob A (from TOW/Middle Earth) posting in a Vor The Maelstrom fb group the other day. "Leaks" are almost certainly attributed to friends having a pint.

Was gonna say, doesnt Valrak live in or near Nottingham?

Like guys, come on, this isnt hard. Even I have sources in GW and sone of the other companies mentioned and Im on the other side of an ocean from them (though starting to dry up as life leads people down different paths). Its amazing what you can learn when you befriend the right people.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Will the Knight Defender get 30K rules, or will it be excluded like the Dominus chassis?

It's a good question - and am I right in thinking the Chaos versions aren't in there either? Kinda makes sense, given there's not much blatant corruption in the range thus far, outside of... two(?) Daemon Primarchs.

The Chaos versions can be taken by using the Exemplary Battles series. Most of the gubbins are in there.

 Da Boss wrote:
The speed of edition change really makes me feel my age these days!

The two years of 2e I was involved in feels like a decade compared to me watching this new edition of Heresy get released what seems like "only a few months ago".

Just seems too fast for middle aged guys like me that don't get to play super regularly.

I know, right? Even in the "Rumors/ Rumours, it's like we're joining a newer cult then the old one...


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 Dysartes wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Will the Knight Defender get 30K rules, or will it be excluded like the Dominus chassis?

It's a good question - and am I right in thinking the Chaos versions aren't in there either? Kinda makes sense, given there's not much blatant corruption in the range thus far, outside of... two(?) Daemon Primarchs.

There was nothing about the Demons/ cultists/ mutated marine units in the books. Plenty of pretty pictures, zero on meat and potatoes. The books were pretty much shirts vs Skins game of Apocalypse, with both side going to war, with the only difference being the Mark type of Armor that was the favorite of the chapter.

When I read through it, my personal feelings was that the book was incomplete. THAT would lead to an evolution of 100 to 300 years. Newer corrupted, and tainted units, mutated armor sets, cult troops, demon engines, sorcerers and minor and major demons, chaos beasts, and the chaos demon attachments discussed in WD and gaming halls around the world... As well as the rest of the Armor sets, variants, and newer vehicles, based on RT era art and the Blanche Fu, of days of yore...

Aside from Solar Auxiliary, and Plastic Mech, What other Horus troops and Imperial cult Sisters should we be seeing?

So either Valrak was right or this is the world's best Photoshop

Wow that Saturine Praetor is huge...

Grrr... can't afford pretty army... must look away.

Were headkng back to Isstvan boys

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/wmno4akm/planetfall-countdown-drop-minus-399-hours/

I'm just glad we can finally put this whole "Saturnine Armour isn't the same thing as Rogue Trader Terminator Armour" bit to rest.

Holy gak! Those melon-fethers are huge!



Also, the "timer" on WarCom is set to 399hrs. I suppose we can take that as a not so subtle release reveal date, in 17 days time?

I'm assuming that'll be the official reveal, it's too early for release. 399 hours puts it on May 29th.

wow, that praetor looks great. love the dreadnought too. great models, all around

hope the new edition's rules are good... or else, i can just play 2nd edition, and run the new terminators and dreadnought as normal terminators and a contemptor

also i find it interesting that the saturnine box seems to be a dreadnought and three terminators. is that the normal box, or just a thing for the edition launch?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Prometheum5 wrote:
I'm assuming that'll be the official reveal, it's too early for release. 399 hours puts it on May 29th.

reveal is what i figure. does GW have an announcement stream planned for the 29th or so?

Prometheum5 wrote:I'm assuming that'll be the official reveal, it's too early for release. 399 hours puts it on May 29th.

Thankyou, reveal is indeed what I meant. Amended.

StudentOfEtherium wrote:also i find it interesting that the saturnine box seems to be a dreadnought and three terminators. is that the normal box, or just a thing for the edition launch?

I would hazard a guess that the top picture is just the front cover for the starter box. I don't think the two photos show separate boxes.

 Snrub wrote:
I would hazard a guess that the top picture is just the front cover for the starter box. I don't think the two photos show separate boxes.

It is. You can see the front cover repeated on the side of the box in the second photo.

This looks like a genuine photo - someone broke into the warehouse, or breached their NDA. I guess that kills GW's rumour trolling campaign.

I have mixed feelings on the look of the Saturnine stuff. It seems to be a completely different aesthetic to the rest of the HH Legion models, but maybe that's the whole point.

So what do we reckon for the Termies and Dread? Elite, Heavy Support?

Elite is pretty packed already and the termies each having a heavy weapon (or potentially doubling up) suggests to me a fire support role which would make Heavy Support a sensible place to put them. Same goes for the dreadnought. From the look of it, it might be a dedicated anti-elite fire support unit in contrast to the Contemptor/Castra-ferruns general purpose, the Levi's short range heavy firepower and deredeo's anti-tank/flyer role.

And what about the centurion? Sculpt for an exisiting consul or a new one?


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 Snord wrote:
I have mixed feelings on the look of the Saturnine stuff. It seems to be a completely different aesthetic to the rest of the HH Legion models, but maybe that's the whole point.

Yeah as always I'm reserving judgement until I've seen better photos of them and/or have them in hand. But the Saturnine seems to be something of an aesthetic departure from the rest of the heresy range.

I've never been sure what (if any) Mk of armour they're supposed to match up to lore-wise. Initially, years ago, I thought they were some of the OG terminator armour variants and meant to be along the lines of MkII. But it was my impression that more reason mentions of them alluded to them being developed in conjunction with MkVI armour. But now they're out alongside MkII, which I know doesn't necessarily mean anything as Battle of Calth had MkIV armour with Cataphractii and Burning of Prospero reversed it with Tartaros with MkIV.
All this doesn't really mean a whole lot at the end of the day, but for someone like me who's doing their army as early crusade-era, I need to know if I can safely add these to my MkII/III heavy army and not break the space-time continuum.

What is the point of that dreadnought existing, its almost exactly the same as a leviathan design wise. Also YAY 3 MAN MARINE SQUADS IN HH

 Snord wrote:

 Snrub wrote:
I would hazard a guess that the top picture is just the front cover for the starter box. I don't think the two photos show separate boxes.

It is. You can see the front cover repeated on the side of the box in the second photo.

This looks like a genuine photo - someone broke into the warehouse, or breached their NDA. I guess that kills GW's rumour trolling campaign.

I have mixed feelings on the look of the Saturnine stuff. It seems to be a completely different aesthetic to the rest of the HH Legion models, but maybe that's the whole point.

The saturnine stuff feels like it would work really well for custodes.

 Snrub wrote:
So what do we reckon for the Termies and Dread? Elite, Heavy Support?

Elite is pretty packed already and the termies each having a heavy weapon (or potentially doubling up) suggests to me a fire support role which would make Heavy Support a sensible place to put them. Same goes for the dreadnought. From the look of it, it might be a dedicated anti-elite fire support unit in contrast to the Contemptor/Castra-ferruns general purpose, the Levi's short range heavy firepower and deredeo's anti-tank/flyer role.

Heavy Support is also heavily packed though. I think the Terminators will be Elites, and the Dreadnought will be HS.

And what about the centurion? Sculpt for an exisiting consul or a new one?

It will likely be a new one. Hopefully something that can be easily converted - I'm using the Fafnir Rann kit for all my Centurions at the moment.

I've never been sure what (if any) Mk of armour they're supposed to match up to lore-wise. Initially, years ago, I thought they were some of the OG terminator armour variants and meant to be along the lines of MkII. But it was my impression that more reason mentions of them alluded to them being developed in conjunction with MkVI armour. But now they're out alongside MkII, which I know doesn't necessarily mean anything as Battle of Calth had MkIV armour with Cataphractii and Burning of Prospero reversed it with Tartaros with MkIV.
All this doesn't really mean a whole lot at the end of the day, but for someone like me who's doing their army as early crusade-era, I need to know if I can safely add these to my MkII/III heavy army and not break the space-time continuum.

Maybe they are going to be relics of an earlier design aesthetic (which is also what they are in reality). The problem for me is that the Terminators look like they belong to a different race. They're as different to Marines as Necrons are. The Praetor looks pretty good though.