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I am pumped for this release! Always loved the retro models reimagined and brought back to life.

I would've preferred to see a resculpt of the original Furibundus dreadnought but this new design is awesome so I'm not complaining one bit.

The set gives off a real dark age of technology vibe which I love.

After a really disappointing TSons update, this is just what I needed to get my spirits up!

Has anyone noted that the photo on thehorushearsay of the box cover with the d18 does not match the bottom right corner of the saturnine cover?

Also appears to not match the rulebook cover (missing the warhammer logo)

Ok, instead of bickering about nonsense bs that doesn't matter in the slightest, lets do something fun and rampantly speculate about statlines and weapon profiles.

There is absolutely no way that Sats are going to be anything faster then 5 inch movement. Not happening no way no how way. They're too hugelarge to be faster then hobbling speed. I predict though that they'll have some inbuilt deepstrike rule or the option to purchase a teleporter or something so they're not totally bereft of movement options. Probably a 2+/4++ like Cats. From the look of the picture weapon choices seem to be either Disintegrators/power Fists or double plasma weapons. Hopefully there's something else in the box as well.

As far as those interesting new plasma weapons go, they bear some similarities to the plasma bombard mortar thing that Thanatar wields. So I wonder if they're going to be some manner of plasma artillery? Because a wall of Sats marching forward lobbing plasma bombs around sounds like my idea of a good time.
All the disintegrator weapons have two barrels. So they could either be rejigging the profile for them for more shots, or the Sat units have a twin-linked version of the weapon. Would would help with the not insta-gibbing yourself on a gets hot.

I'm wondering if the power armoured centurion might be an Armistos. He's one of the few we don't have a resin mini for yet. Or he might be some whole new Consul type. The overall theme of deadly new tech and the abundance of disintegrators in the box could point to him being some Armourer of some type. A special weapon version of the Armistos with the ability to dole out special weapons to units who might not otherwise be able to take them.
Or he could just be a tooled up generic centurion.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
My main concern here is that all these new toys occupy their own distinct niche in terms of tactical applications and that.

What is that Saturnine Terminators offer that Cataphractii (4++) and Tartaros (better mobility) don’t. The same for the Dreadnought, comparing against three stablemates.

Well I posited a few days (weeks?) ago that they might be giving the Sats a siege/support role to make them tactically distinct from the other terminators. Visible weapon options so far lean towards fire saturation. The Dreadnought the same. We've got the Contemptor/Castra-ferrum as jack-of-all-trades, The Levi has close support/siege, and the Deredeo has long range anti-armour/air covered. The SatDread looks to be shaping up as a dedicated anti-elite/fire support. True it's not exactly like the others can't do the same, but one has to assume they've got some special rule in place to make the SatDread a viable choice over the others.

"Well, there it is" like that meme Valrak always likes to post on B&C when these things happen.

The only thing in this box which even remotely interests me is the mega tarantula. Everything else is too Heretical for my sensibilities..

But wait, I thought MKII battle plate helmets were fixed! Or was that the MKI plate.. These are just like the MKIII kit but with slight cosmetic differences..

Anyways, wake my up when we get Land Speeder Proteus. I aint joining the HH3.0 churn train..

PS. Did you catch those Dreadnought Drop Pods landing in the background of that cover art? Plastic Dread Drop Pods confirmed!

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
A shame that it seems memelore on "saturnine terminators" seems to have become canon. Incorrect lore having been repeated over and over so much and taken as fact when it never was, that it's now become the lore.

what was the meme?

"Saturnine" Terminator armour being that style.

It's a pattern of armour that was mentioned in Like 2 books but never had any official depiction of any kind, not even a description. The community at some point saw that those original Terminator miniatures and decided to start claiming they were "Saturnine" despite that never having been even hinted at officially, and it has since been got repeated over and over as a if were a fact regardless. Now it actually is "Saturnine" because of that incorrect lore having been parroted as fact so often.

So basically something that was never defined was then defined by the community and GW went with it. Honestly that's less of a "meme destroyed lore" and more a case of "GW included user created/influenced lore" so in my view its a boon. It's not like they re-conned anything they just took a really old design for something that hasn't been used in decades and gave it a formal name; class and huge update

 tauist wrote:
But wait, I thought MKII battle plate helmets were fixed! Or was that the MKI plate.. These are just like the MKIII kit but with slight cosmetic differences.

MkII hasn't been fixed helmet for many long years now unfortunately and is in no way a recent change. I don't imagine a fixed forward facing helmet makes for particularly interesting miniatures to pose.

PS. Did you catch those Dreadnought Drop Pods landing in the background of that cover art? Plastic Dread Drop Pods confirmed!

That's an interesting bit of spotting. They're definitely not as slimline as troop pods are and don't appear to have flight fins on four sides. Could be a sneaky sneaky preview of something to come.
Or it might just be artistic interpretation.

Dudeface wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 xttz wrote:
The good news is that boxes like this inevitably end up having the rulebooks available very cheaply in the second-hand market, as people break up the boxes to max out certain models.

Yeah, the problem is the same as with any edition: unlearning stuff, relearning stuff. I ain't got time for that anymore, TBH, for a game I might play every other month, at the very best.

Plus, as said above, a new run through the codex carousel.

If youre in a happy established group then simply don't - decide to continue with current rules.

lord_blackfang wrote:Sadly that usually only works until someone wants to use the new models...

Yeah.... that's great, until it's not. And it goes contrary to the usual GW arguments ("If you play the current game, you'll be able to play, no matter where you are").


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Yeah, the problem is the same as with any edition: unlearning stuff, relearning stuff. I ain't got time for that anymore, TBH, for a game I might play every other month, at the very best.

Plus, as said above, a new run through the codex carousel.

100% agreement on learning stuff when you rarely play. I only get to play at AdeptiCon as I haven't found people near me that I want to spend time with... anyway. My buddy from a different state and I read the rule and army books to each other on the drive to Chicago each year. It's the only way that works for us. I really hope the HH3 rules are just a 2.5 adjustment. Make Fliers Reasonable Again, etc.

That said, they don't really do Codex carousels in HH. There is a loyalist book, Traitor book, Admech book, and army doods. However, I don't want to drop another $60 for each of these. For the 2nd time in 3 years.

I mean... it's a smaller one, but a codex carousel nonetheless ^^.

 Overread wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
A shame that it seems memelore on "saturnine terminators" seems to have become canon. Incorrect lore having been repeated over and over so much and taken as fact when it never was, that it's now become the lore.

what was the meme?

"Saturnine" Terminator armour being that style.

It's a pattern of armour that was mentioned in Like 2 books but never had any official depiction of any kind, not even a description. The community at some point saw that those original Terminator miniatures and decided to start claiming they were "Saturnine" despite that never having been even hinted at officially, and it has since been got repeated over and over as a if were a fact regardless. Now it actually is "Saturnine" because of that incorrect lore having been parroted as fact so often.

So basically something that was never defined was then defined by the community and GW went with it. Honestly that's less of a "meme destroyed lore" and more a case of "GW included user created/influenced lore" so in my view its a boon. It's not like they re-conned anything they just took a really old design for something that hasn't been used in decades and gave it a formal name; class and huge update

Something that was never defined by GW was incorrectly claimed by the community to be something it never was, that was spread as a fact over and over even though it wasn't, and now what was an incorrect claim is fact. I'm just not too fond of the idea of parroting memelore and outright incorrect claims being spread because no one bothers to do more than just repeat what they heard as if it's a fact without any further thought, in turn actually affecting the lore. It's one thing if what was said was like "It would be cool if this classic armour style was Saturnine" as a theory, but it wasn't that, it was "This IS Saturnine armour!" claimed as canon, when it wasn't.

It's specifically it being called "Saturnine" that the issue is with. The miniatures themselves are cool and it's nice to have something based on those very classic designs.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
A shame that it seems memelore on "saturnine terminators" seems to have become canon. Incorrect lore having been repeated over and over so much and taken as fact when it never was, that it's now become the lore.

Not incorrect lore.

A reasonable assumption about an undefined bit of lore (that a name with no shape and a shape with no name go together) that turned out to be correct.

 tauist wrote:
But wait, I thought MKII battle plate helmets were fixed! Or was that the MKI plate.. These are just like the MKIII kit but with slight cosmetic differences.!

Mark II and III were originally fixed, yes, until FW redesigned them.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
A shame that it seems memelore on "saturnine terminators" seems to have become canon. Incorrect lore having been repeated over and over so much and taken as fact when it never was, that it's now become the lore.

Not incorrect lore.

A reasonable assumption about an undefined bit of lore (that a name with no shape and a shape with no name go together) that turned out to be correct.

What was spread wasn't just that as a theory/speculation. It was repeated as a fact of that armour being Saturnine.

Didn't appreciate an official fake rumour website

But their gakposting around the box leak is exquisite.

 Albertorius wrote:

 tauist wrote:
But wait, I thought MKII battle plate helmets were fixed! Or was that the MKI plate.. These are just like the MKIII kit but with slight cosmetic differences.!

Mark II and III were originally fixed, yes, until FW redesigned them.

Adrian Smith (artwork) and Jes Goodwin (model) changed that literally when Rick Priestley wrote that article about armour marks back then.

 Albertorius wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 xttz wrote:
The good news is that boxes like this inevitably end up having the rulebooks available very cheaply in the second-hand market, as people break up the boxes to max out certain models.

Yeah, the problem is the same as with any edition: unlearning stuff, relearning stuff. I ain't got time for that anymore, TBH, for a game I might play every other month, at the very best.

Plus, as said above, a new run through the codex carousel.

If youre in a happy established group then simply don't - decide to continue with current rules.

lord_blackfang wrote:Sadly that usually only works until someone wants to use the new models...

Yeah.... that's great, until it's not. And it goes contrary to the usual GW arguments ("If you play the current game, you'll be able to play, no matter where you are").

A self imposed restriction is exactly that though, if you don't like or want to use current rules then it's no more or less fair than someone who does. My point was if you are close enough with your gaming buddies you'll manage to find common ground and carry on. If you're unfortunately the only one who feels that way in the group then it's that balance between wanting to partake in it or finding something else to do, but that's again a personal choice.

Your 2.0 books don't burn on release day and you can't tell others what to do, but you can speak to humans as humans and find a way forwards. I'd wager largely that the majority of people saying these things will probably play on anyway to spend time with friends.

It is still, the same as with the videogaming industry really, planned obsolesence and the only reason it's not legally punished is because regulators don't care about games.

Despite it beeing a bigger market than many others.

Personally, if it is a 2.1. clean cut and would be communicated as such. Yeah, sure, i'd pay for an updated and propperly laid out and designed Rulebook, this however is once again GW doing a GW in the most GW way ever.

(replace 2 and 3 gw with adequate words for the lack of care often given to GW rulesproduct to your liking).

Will get a set for the Mk2's. Why?

For my dreams of completed HH boardgames!
In calth, Mk4 word bearers with orbital backpacks (ala chaos marines) will face off against Mk2 and 3 ultramarines. In Prospero Mk4 tSons will face off against Mk2 and 3 space wolves!

Might vary the terminator marks as well.

Not Online!!! wrote:
It is still, the same as with the videogaming industry really, planned obsolesence and the only reason it's not legally punished is because regulators don't care about games.

Despite it beeing a bigger market than many others.

Personally, if it is a 2.1. clean cut and would be communicated as such. Yeah, sure, i'd pay for an updated and propperly laid out and designed Rulebook, this however is once again GW doing a GW in the most GW way ever.

(replace 2 and 3 gw with adequate words for the lack of care often given to GW rulesproduct to your liking).

Hopefully we’ll start getting rule info by the end of the month.

As I’ve said before, from hope rather than evidence, I’m expecting a Tidy Up And Tweak edition. Certainly, if they’d wanted to move away from the 3rd/4th/5th rules set of Heresy V1, Heresy V2 with the original raft of plastic models would likely have been the time to do it. At least to my mind.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
It is still, the same as with the videogaming industry really, planned obsolesence and the only reason it's not legally punished is because regulators don't care about games.

Despite it beeing a bigger market than many others.

Personally, if it is a 2.1. clean cut and would be communicated as such. Yeah, sure, i'd pay for an updated and propperly laid out and designed Rulebook, this however is once again GW doing a GW in the most GW way ever.

(replace 2 and 3 gw with adequate words for the lack of care often given to GW rulesproduct to your liking).

Hopefully we’ll start getting rule info by the end of the month.

As I’ve said before, from hope rather than evidence, I’m expecting a Tidy Up And Tweak edition. Certainly, if they’d wanted to move away from the 3rd/4th/5th rules set of Heresy V1, Heresy V2 with the original raft of plastic models would likely have been the time to do it. At least to my mind.

Inclined to agree, the only reason it may be to the contrary are that if they are onboarding it to "main game" territory based off the success of 40k as a money maker and wanting it to do the same, then aligning it to the same market might also yield benefits.

I think HH being for the old grognards who keep spreadsheets of squad markings, name every mini and a forgeworld resin addiction might well be over at this point.

So, what are the odds these guys will get 40k rules? I built up a "Counts as Flesh Tearers" force that is all converted Stormcast. I even have an ATV made from the Servohauler terrain piece.

The issue is that I've wanted Terminators and a Dreadnought, but the standard ones just look too different in style. These boys will fit right in. Worst case the Dread could count as a Redemptor with some mods.

Yeah, I'm thinking that this is it for me with the game.

I'll still buy minis cuz building/painting is what I like to do.

They killed my interest in 40k
They now have killed my interest in 30k
Looks like the last bastion of gaming is gonna be Necromunda...interested to see how long it takes them to kill it for me.


I like the MkII armour and the gun platform, kinda iffy on the Saturnines, but that Praetor can go right the feth to hell tho...

0 chance. GW is keeping HH and 40k separate.

Dudeface wrote:
Your 2.0 books don't burn on release day and you can't tell others what to do, but you can speak to humans as humans and find a way forwards. I'd wager largely that the majority of people saying these things will probably play on anyway to spend time with friends.

Same dudesplaining as with any other GW edition ever.

Same value, too. I already know that my books don't self combust, thank you so much. Finding players outside your group (or even inside your group, as you will need to reach a consensus there too) that keep using them, though? Same issue as with any other GW edition ever.

And let us not kid ourselves too much here: one of the biggest selling points of GW games is that you can actually find people to play with readily enough. But only for the last edition.

 cuda1179 wrote:
So, what are the odds these guys will get 40k rules? I built up a "Counts as Flesh Tearers" force that is all converted Stormcast. I even have an ATV made from the Servohauler terrain piece.

The issue is that I've wanted Terminators and a Dreadnought, but the standard ones just look too different in style. These boys will fit right in. Worst case the Dread could count as a Redemptor with some mods.

The termis as Centurions perhaps? I'd not expect 40k rules for anything at this point, with the slightest chance of something in Legends. Did the Arvus lighter get any?

Well, the Kratos tank got Legends Rules for 40K, so I’d “never say never” on this.

so people know how well it works to find other players to play 9th Edition 40k at the moment, and somehow still think this would work any better with a new Edition HH?

Why do people even started with 2nd Edition HH if there was no real reason to switch outside it being the official new Edition

Sometimes, you gotta go with the flow.

I’m not unsympathetic (see my constant and consistent pining for 2nd Ed 40K).

But getting upset that those who might want to stick with a given older edition are in a solid minority just seems….a waste of time to my mind.

Comes across a bit “why won’t everyone agree with me”.

Churn and Burn only works if the majority of people accept it despite things being a sidegrade at best.

And as HHs target audience is one should know better, I see it more of a problem when people still act like the old books didn't became worthless the moment 3rd Edition rumours were up but pretend things are different

A 3 year edition cycle sucks for HH but if the majority pretends it is fine because everyone can technically stick to old edition, it won't change

 Overread wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
A shame that it seems memelore on "saturnine terminators" seems to have become canon. Incorrect lore having been repeated over and over so much and taken as fact when it never was, that it's now become the lore.

what was the meme?

"Saturnine" Terminator armour being that style.

It's a pattern of armour that was mentioned in Like 2 books but never had any official depiction of any kind, not even a description. The community at some point saw that those original Terminator miniatures and decided to start claiming they were "Saturnine" despite that never having been even hinted at officially, and it has since been got repeated over and over as a if were a fact regardless. Now it actually is "Saturnine" because of that incorrect lore having been parroted as fact so often.

So basically something that was never defined was then defined by the community and GW went with it. Honestly that's less of a "meme destroyed lore" and more a case of "GW included user created/influenced lore" so in my view its a boon. It's not like they re-conned anything they just took a really old design for something that hasn't been used in decades and gave it a formal name; class and huge update

Iirc, its a bit less clear cut than that. As I recall, in a q&a an author said they included reference to saturnine armor as an homage to older artwork (if i recall they didnt nevessarily clearly specify which artwork, and its possible the community got it wrong), the community than ran with it and identified big-shoulder termies as saturnine armor, and now weve come full circle to having official models which may be called that because it was always intended to be or because the community misidentified the thing and GW just rolled with it.

I guess GW just decided to make me a model collector & not a player.

Not interested in the carousel.

The Saturnine all look too big, like they'd be big for Primaris, and that dread looks oversized for a game that has Contemptor & Castaferrum dreads.

Very disappointed that we are still waiting for MkV heresy armor, as well as plastic Breachers & Destroyers.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
A shame that it seems memelore on "saturnine terminators" seems to have become canon. Incorrect lore having been repeated over and over so much and taken as fact when it never was, that it's now become the lore.

what was the meme?

"Saturnine" Terminator armour being that style.

It's a pattern of armour that was mentioned in Like 2 books but never had any official depiction of any kind, not even a description. The community at some point saw that those original Terminator miniatures and decided to start claiming they were "Saturnine" despite that never having been even hinted at officially, and it has since been got repeated over and over as a if were a fact regardless. Now it actually is "Saturnine" because of that incorrect lore having been parroted as fact so often.

So basically something that was never defined was then defined by the community and GW went with it. Honestly that's less of a "meme destroyed lore" and more a case of "GW included user created/influenced lore" so in my view its a boon. It's not like they re-conned anything they just took a really old design for something that hasn't been used in decades and gave it a formal name; class and huge update

Iirc, its a bit less clear cut than that. As I recall, in a q&a an author said they included reference to saturnine armor as an homage to older artwork (if i recall they didnt nevessarily clearly specify which artwork, and its possible the community got it wrong), the community than ran with it and identified big-shoulder termies as saturnine armor, and now weve come full circle to having official models which may be called that because it was always intended to be or because the community misidentified the thing and GW just rolled with it.

Any idea where that was said?