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 RedSarge wrote:
Only cursory following of the dumpster fire that is stripped-edition 30k 3.0, but that's not my question. Sad deal.

My question here is regarding Saturnine.
Is a man supposed to be inside that armor? I'm looking at the hips and shoulders, it just doesn't add up at all.. like at all.
Bull-legged at best, and with dislocated shoulders in your armpits?

Is that the secret, that Saturnine is just a Thallax/Contemptor light?

Oh that. There's more discussion on the topic here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer30k/comments/1ku92dr/saturnine_anatomy_continued/

 Dryaktylus wrote:

I play Mechanicum too (usually Dark), and sorry, but 2.0 was just really awful. There's no way I hold it in fond memory. Especially Thralls were absolutely useless most of the time. And the Dark Mech rules sucked even more than the main list in the Liber. Good luck with that.

Perfectly understandable afterall i pointed it out with the nerf of the PDF daemonengine cybertheurgy. I however refuse to go into a system that allready has announced what ammounts to two cut content DLC's in a fething physical game.

There comes a point in every wargamers career in regards to GW in which one has to go forward and realise that after 4-6 games that they can rewrite the rules themselves to a higher degree in 2-3 days and the only reason it's not done is that people then expect a flawless product out of homewritten rules whilest defending the standard GW faulty ones because they are standard. Which is peak irony. And after that realisation those of us with close knit communities do so anyways and those orbiting official GW bubbles which are larger won't. Unless GW feths up massivly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I think I'll just grab the Journals off Telegram instead of trying to slog through the DEUTSCHE VERSION

Dieser Kommentar ist Eigentum des DACH-Verbandes deutschsprechender Staaten.
This comment is owned by the DACH-Association of german speaking states.

Yes this is a reference.

 tauist wrote:

 RedSarge wrote:
Only cursory following of the dumpster fire that is stripped-edition 30k 3.0, but that's not my question. Sad deal.

My question here is regarding Saturnine.
Is a man supposed to be inside that armor? I'm looking at the hips and shoulders, it just doesn't add up at all.. like at all.
Bull-legged at best, and with dislocated shoulders in your armpits?

Is that the secret, that Saturnine is just a Thallax/Contemptor light?

Oh that. There's more discussion on the topic here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer30k/comments/1ku92dr/saturnine_anatomy_continued/

Of those, C makes the most sense. A renders the armor more akin to a dreadnought, and rather permanent. C leans into the need for psychic talent more. The other would just result in broken bones.

 tauist wrote:

 RedSarge wrote:
Only cursory following of the dumpster fire that is stripped-edition 30k 3.0, but that's not my question. Sad deal.

My question here is regarding Saturnine.
Is a man supposed to be inside that armor? I'm looking at the hips and shoulders, it just doesn't add up at all.. like at all.
Bull-legged at best, and with dislocated shoulders in your armpits?

Is that the secret, that Saturnine is just a Thallax/Contemptor light?

Oh that. There's more discussion on the topic here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer30k/comments/1ku92dr/saturnine_anatomy_continued/

Ok, tha looks like fun xD. But neither B nor D fit in the hips

Yeah B and D are obvs wrong, the armor at the hip joint wpuld need to be too thin to fit a body at that angle and theres no range of motion to actually be able to walk without breaking the pilots body.

 BorderCountess wrote:

 tauist wrote:

 RedSarge wrote:
Only cursory following of the dumpster fire that is stripped-edition 30k 3.0, but that's not my question. Sad deal.

My question here is regarding Saturnine.
Is a man supposed to be inside that armor? I'm looking at the hips and shoulders, it just doesn't add up at all.. like at all.
Bull-legged at best, and with dislocated shoulders in your armpits?

Is that the secret, that Saturnine is just a Thallax/Contemptor light?

Oh that. There's more discussion on the topic here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer30k/comments/1ku92dr/saturnine_anatomy_continued/

Of those, C makes the most sense. A renders the armor more akin to a dreadnought, and rather permanent. C leans into the need for psychic talent more. The other would just result in broken bones.

I don't think Psychic talent factors into it at all. The Hereticus book mentions that the Sons of Horus used trial by physical combat to prove their right to don one of the suits. It's made pretty clear that only the best of the best were allowed access to them.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:

 tauist wrote:

 RedSarge wrote:
Only cursory following of the dumpster fire that is stripped-edition 30k 3.0, but that's not my question. Sad deal.

My question here is regarding Saturnine.
Is a man supposed to be inside that armor? I'm looking at the hips and shoulders, it just doesn't add up at all.. like at all.
Bull-legged at best, and with dislocated shoulders in your armpits?

Is that the secret, that Saturnine is just a Thallax/Contemptor light?

Oh that. There's more discussion on the topic here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer30k/comments/1ku92dr/saturnine_anatomy_continued/

Of those, C makes the most sense. A renders the armor more akin to a dreadnought, and rather permanent. C leans into the need for psychic talent more. The other would just result in broken bones.

I don't think Psychic talent factors into it at all. The Hereticus book mentions that the Sons of Horus used trial by physical combat to prove their right to don one of the suits. It's made pretty clear that only the best of the best were allowed access to them.

All the WarCom articles make repeatedly clear that some level of psychic ability is necessary.

Lord Zarkov wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:

 tauist wrote:

 RedSarge wrote:
Only cursory following of the dumpster fire that is stripped-edition 30k 3.0, but that's not my question. Sad deal.

My question here is regarding Saturnine.
Is a man supposed to be inside that armor? I'm looking at the hips and shoulders, it just doesn't add up at all.. like at all.
Bull-legged at best, and with dislocated shoulders in your armpits?

Is that the secret, that Saturnine is just a Thallax/Contemptor light?

Oh that. There's more discussion on the topic here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer30k/comments/1ku92dr/saturnine_anatomy_continued/

Of those, C makes the most sense. A renders the armor more akin to a dreadnought, and rather permanent. C leans into the need for psychic talent more. The other would just result in broken bones.

I don't think Psychic talent factors into it at all. The Hereticus book mentions that the Sons of Horus used trial by physical combat to prove their right to don one of the suits. It's made pretty clear that only the best of the best were allowed access to them.

All the WarCom articles make repeatedly clear that some level of psychic ability is necessary.

Yeah, but it’s not “can melt steel beams with my mind” power but normal background level that like 15% of Imperial humans get, where they’re a bit too lucky, or heal a little too fast. Stuff that doesn’t even look like psychic power 99% of the time.

Besides, that Reddit thread is wrong: the pilots (there are two) are actually sitting inside the pauldrons with their feet dangling down into the torso of the suit.

I stay with 2nd Edition.

This Edition will become a totaly Mess with all that Journals, Core Units spread over multiple Booklets they surley will but into One Book in 2 Years. Cut Weapon Options on the Tartaros.

Also they should print those Journals in different languages, when they even take the time to make them available als PDFs in german, french ect.

Having those Saturnine Armour on every Book cover look stupid and is ridiculous...

The full Solar Aux liber has leaked and I have to say it looks strong and fun, albeit a bit slim on the page count. Some of the "chapter tactics" would make Legions cry themselves to sleep - like "Cavalry can score". There's about half a dozen to pick from, each specializing in one unit type. On top of that, you get a pick from 18 advanced reactions based on which Legion you like holding hands with.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
The full Solar Aux liber has leaked and I have to say it looks strong and fun, albeit a bit slim on the page count. Some of the "chapter tactics" would make Legions cry themselves to sleep - like "Cavalry can score". There's about half a dozen to pick from, each specializing in one unit type. On top of that, you get a pick from 18 advanced reactions based on which Legion you like holding hands with.

Talk about a GW overcorrection....

 lord_blackfang wrote:
On top of that, you get a pick from 18 advanced reactions based on which Legion you like holding hands with.

The Alpha Legion allies is fairly obnoxious and at first glance, extremely open to abuse.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
The full Solar Aux liber has leaked and I have to say it looks strong and fun, albeit a bit slim on the page count. Some of the "chapter tactics" would make Legions cry themselves to sleep - like "Cavalry can score". There's about half a dozen to pick from, each specializing in one unit type. On top of that, you get a pick from 18 advanced reactions based on which Legion you like holding hands with.

Talk about a GW overcorrection....

Well all the books would have been finished being written a while ago now so it's not really a "correction" unless you mean compared to 2nd Edition.

At risk of enflaming ire, I have a strong feeling that GW plans to sell Journal Tactica "Codexes" for each legion that will raise their power level and also give them back a lot of the flavor they lost.
It would also make sense that all the Legions lost at least 1 "modelless" special unit since those could be included in the codex and even release with actual unique models and a new equipment loadout.

It really feels like the historical-like era of "pick any appropriate equipment off the list" is being replaced with a hybrid "Line infantry can pick from the list, Specialists have a 40k style strict unit loadouts that defines their niche".

 BorderCountess wrote:

 tauist wrote:

 RedSarge wrote:
Only cursory following of the dumpster fire that is stripped-edition 30k 3.0, but that's not my question. Sad deal.

My question here is regarding Saturnine.
Is a man supposed to be inside that armor? I'm looking at the hips and shoulders, it just doesn't add up at all.. like at all.
Bull-legged at best, and with dislocated shoulders in your armpits?

Is that the secret, that Saturnine is just a Thallax/Contemptor light?

Oh that. There's more discussion on the topic here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer30k/comments/1ku92dr/saturnine_anatomy_continued/

Of those, C makes the most sense. A renders the armor more akin to a dreadnought, and rather permanent. C leans into the need for psychic talent more. The other would just result in broken bones.

A is how I originally headcanoned centurions. I hate the centurion design, but the concept could be saved if they worked like a mini dreadnought squad, like killa kanz. IE they were created to house injured marines for whom no dreadnought was available - there are going to be far more eligible dread pilots than actual suits to use. So the pilot being a meat ball in a robot works much better than walking in the armour with their arms crossed to jusitify the design of the suit.

This could be similar to the saturnine, they're only honoured warriors damaged or deciding to sacrifice limbs for the chance to wear the suit. IMO the centurion being the modern attempt to maintain a saturnine-like unit works better.

I'm not sure I like the foetal ball pilot, because there's no reason for the suit to be this small if you're putting a whole dude inside.

It could be like Custodes and Dreadnoughts. Dishonored Custodes, who were uninjured would volunteer to be put into Dreadnoughts to redeem lost honor.

Maybe some Space Marines would volunteer to be mangled to fit into the armour.

 Jack Flask wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
The full Solar Aux liber has leaked and I have to say it looks strong and fun, albeit a bit slim on the page count. Some of the "chapter tactics" would make Legions cry themselves to sleep - like "Cavalry can score". There's about half a dozen to pick from, each specializing in one unit type. On top of that, you get a pick from 18 advanced reactions based on which Legion you like holding hands with.

Talk about a GW overcorrection....

Well all the books would have been finished being written a while ago now so it's not really a "correction" unless you mean compared to 2nd Edition.

At risk of enflaming ire, I have a strong feeling that GW plans to sell Journal Tactica "Codexes" for each legion that will raise their power level and also give them back a lot of the flavor they lost.
It would also make sense that all the Legions lost at least 1 "modelless" special unit since those could be included in the codex and even release with actual unique models and a new equipment loadout.

It really feels like the historical-like era of "pick any appropriate equipment off the list" is being replaced with a hybrid "Line infantry can pick from the list, Specialists have a 40k style strict unit loadouts that defines their niche".

i meant in regards to 2.0 indeed.

And again cut-content DLC ontop of massivly unbalanced core lists in comparison to themselves is just another mark against this nonsense that gw is pulling.

Age of Darkness: Saturnine 35% off at Wayland already!

Must have lots of spare stock floating around and GW must see the writing on the wall!

grouch666 wrote:
Age of Darkness: Saturnine 35% off at Wayland already!

Must have lots of spare stock floating around and GW must see the writing on the wall!

Yeah I now accept this is either tanking or that 3rd party retailers are apparently terrible at stock estimates. The latter seems less likely.

Dudeface wrote:

grouch666 wrote:
Age of Darkness: Saturnine 35% off at Wayland already!

Must have lots of spare stock floating around and GW must see the writing on the wall!

Yeah I now accept this is either tanking or that 3rd party retailers are apparently terrible at stock estimates. The latter seems less likely.

it was already discounted for CH with 23% since i believe about 3 days

Oh that's not a good look

What's interesting to me is it implies internet hype/dooming has a massive impact on sales, as I don't see a reason for HH 3.0 to tank other than the leaks of how horrible it is. Aren't we supposed to be the loud minority, either way?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Oh that's not a good look

What's interesting to me is it implies internet hype/dooming has a massive impact on sales, as I don't see a reason for HH 3.0 to tank other than the leaks of how horrible it is. Aren't we supposed to be the loud minority, either way?

May be that HH appeals more to the same people who are in the "loud minority" (old, bitter gamers), rather than say 40k where I imagine more of the market is fresh-faced and optimistic.

I must admit though, the discount did the trick and I did finally place an order!

Tavis75 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Oh that's not a good look

What's interesting to me is it implies internet hype/dooming has a massive impact on sales, as I don't see a reason for HH 3.0 to tank other than the leaks of how horrible it is. Aren't we supposed to be the loud minority, either way?

May be that HH appeals more to the same people who are in the "loud minority" (old, bitter gamers), rather than say 40k where I imagine more of the market is fresh-faced and optimistic.

I must admit though, the discount did the trick and I did finally place an order!

I was really close and then stopped. I can just see the box going into the attic and not getting touched.

40k White Scars have sort of nudged into my life and I have Marines left from previous releases to build and have a look at painting.

GW does not do any advertising outside their own channels
so they basically rely on word of mouth from their loyal fans to create hype for people to go all in which creates fomo in the first place

if the loyal fans are disappointed with the product or don't like it, there won't be any advertising, hype or need to buy now for all the other people
and if the local players aren't hyped for 3rd and want to get everything in release day, why should the casual people pre-order it, because even if they really like the models they can still wait for release to buy the individual boxes

I'll say I see all the problems of how they handled the the loyalist rules and stuff but in the end I'd say every GW product is mostly about the models. And Saturnines are just very special. Imagine a 40K starter with Centurions. I know it's anecdotal but everyone in my gaming group reacted negatively on the Saturnine terminators. I assume they're the main reason for that Box to fail.

I won't buy the box, regardless the discount - I just don't play Space Marines. I'll buy Liber Mechanicum and Questoris, but as there're no discounts on books I didn't preorder them. And for the rulebook, I'll wait to get a cheaper one from someone who bought more than one box (I guess there are some).

GW may have screwed up the hype, but I think the box will find more buyers once things are settled.

Annoyingly tempted by a 35% drop but staying strong.

So, how quickly to we think GW can rush a pair of "enhanced" Liber books into production that reinsert the PDF units into the book?

Because 35% discount pre-launch is proper panic stations time.

Fun fact on the mechanicum side, I saw someone breakdown relative pricing of the army over the editions.

Due to the points changes, the army costs as much in plastic in 3.0 as it did in resin in 1.0.

The plastic units halve the price per model in both cash and money, resin units went up in cash but halved in points. It's basically ruinous to get to 3k with them now if you want to use the whole range as sold.

Good lord, a 35% off already? That's... yeah. I've seen Dark Sphere and Element Games stock of 2nd edition books dipping - Dark Sphere has a few Siege of Cthonias left and a ton of Beta Garmons, but they're reducing

I saw Alchemist Workshop had dropped to 150 I was going to wait until 135, I suppose that means I should get one of these Wayland ones for 125 .