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Yeah, Alchemist reducing it to £150 almost pushed me over the edge, but seeing Wayland go down to £125 makes me glad that I waited. Trigger pulled!

Thank heck my irresponsible expenditure for the month was tiny 30K tanks and stuff cause yeah that's a very hard price to pass on for a boxed set.


That said don't forget its Wayland taking the sales hit not GW and part of this could just be the same thing we saw with the last big box (or was it the one before) for AoS - that the game is selling fine its just not selling at "Pandemic" levels and stores are seeking to recover money faster than the lifespan of the product (3 years).


Also whilst 30K is VERY marine heavy its not all marines - there's Imperial Guard and Mechanicus in there too so there's a chance it could also just be because its basically a one-army set. So any 30K players not heavily invested in marines are out.

grouch666 wrote:
Age of Darkness: Saturnine 35% off at Wayland already!

Must have lots of spare stock floating around and GW must see the writing on the wall!

All the new releases, actually

There’s also far too many unknowns.

First, unlike Indomitus? This is a permanent boxed set. Which means you cannot miss out. For however long 3rd Ed lasts? You’ll be able to buy this box.

Second? How are the separate rulebooks selling? We’ve no idea. And never will. GW has never, and presumably will never, publish their results by system, let alone product.

Consider my collection, which is by now expansive, and all plastic. Certainly I’ve plenty variety there to have not needed to buy the new set, let alone two. All I need to get into the new edition is the rulebook and the liber of my choosing. And my entire collection, barring a few character models are all plastic kits. Because I hate working with resin, and the previous price point was too high for me. Hence I spent an awful lot on 2nd Ed. Money I don’t need to repeat for 3rd Ed.

How many others are in the same boat of ‘do I really need or want to pay for the new models?’. How many are holding out to get say, my spare copy of the rulebook for a lower price? How many have coughed up for the rulebook and liber of their choice only, knowing if they change their mind models wise, it’ll still offer a saving.

Could be very few. Could be loads. But? We Do Not Know.

 Overread wrote:
Thank heck my irresponsible expenditure for the month was tiny 30K tanks and stuff cause yeah that's a very hard price to pass on for a boxed set.


That said don't forget its Wayland taking the sales hit not GW and part of this could just be the same thing we saw with the last big box (or was it the one before) for AoS - that the game is selling fine its just not selling at "Pandemic" levels and stores are seeking to recover money faster than the lifespan of the product (3 years).


Also whilst 30K is VERY marine heavy its not all marines - there's Imperial Guard and Mechanicus in there too so there's a chance it could also just be because its basically a one-army set. So any 30K players not heavily invested in marines are out.

There's no way a store in this age would blindly order 3 years worth of stock in such a rookie move unless they genuinely thought it'd sell though.

That said the things going against it:

- its all marines as noted is a detractor for some
- people with large collections might not care for a new box
- saturnine is very marmite
- its a big old price tag for an intro product which in turn isn't actually an intro product in real terms
- people are harder up than ever
- its a niche game to begin with
- it has a limited market appeal to those with knowledge of the setting and a willing to try 30k
- it has a wave of bad press to bow infront of it

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
There’s also far too many unknowns.

There's one thing known. As far as I am aware, we've never ever seen a 35% discount on GW stuff that's still on preorder.

Second? How are the separate rulebooks selling? We’ve no idea. And never will. GW has never, and presumably will never, publish their results by system, let alone product.

All the books are 35% off too. As are all the other boxes.

For the Kill Team: AOD fan mod...I can get a box of the MKIIs and melee upgrades...£57.33. Hmmm...£28 for each team.

Wolves vs T-Sons?

 Albertorius wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
There’s also far too many unknowns.

There's one thing known. As far as I am aware, we've never ever seen a 35% discount on GW stuff that's still on preorder.

Second? How are the separate rulebooks selling? We’ve no idea. And never will. GW has never, and presumably will never, publish their results by system, let alone product.

All the books are 35% off too. As are all the other boxes.

From a single source.

 Albertorius wrote:

All the books are 35% off too.

Not the German ones.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
There’s also far too many unknowns.

There's one thing known. As far as I am aware, we've never ever seen a 35% discount on GW stuff that's still on preorder.

Second? How are the separate rulebooks selling? We’ve no idea. And never will. GW has never, and presumably will never, publish their results by system, let alone product.

All the books are 35% off too. As are all the other boxes.

From a single source.

Both statements are true? Either way at least one seller is having a hard time shifting the box at 20% off RRP, so it's a valid indicator and even though it is only one seller, we've not seen that happen on a preorder before.

What might happen is we're all promoting the discount and emptying their stock, which hits other stores and they may be forced to copy.

Anyone seeing these discounts stateside?

 The Phazer wrote:
So, how quickly to we think GW can rush a pair of "enhanced" Liber books into production that reinsert the PDF units into the book?

Because 35% discount pre-launch is proper panic stations time.

I mentioned hearing chatter regarding this earlier, twas brushed off as speculation at the time IIRC

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:From a single source.

I'm not sure where I said otherwise, but, sure? Does it change the fact that it's unheard of, from that very same source? (arguably one of the biggest volume independent stores online)

Dryaktylus wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

All the books are 35% off too.

Not the German ones.

Ah, didn't check those... interesting! That should be indicative of something I expect.

It’s more to reinforce we’ve nothing like enough information for any particular conclusion.

People were adamant that 2nd Edition wasn’t selling. People were adamant that Legions Imperialis wasn’t selling. Some folk just love to whine, and will interpret anything as support for said whine. Ref folk turning up in this thread as Outrage Farmers who, rather conspicuously, have never commented on Heresy stuff prior.

So…yeah. We’ve a single online retailer offering a healthier than normal discount. And that’s all we know.

A single one that happens to be one of the biggest ones too, mind.

And other ones reported here also offering big discounts, bigger than usual.

I love how everything that happens proves nothing, ever, except when it does ^^

 Albertorius wrote:
A single one that happens to be one of the biggest ones too, mind.

And other ones reported here also offering big discounts, bigger than usual.

I love how everything that happens proves nothing, ever, except when it does ^^

I believe they are the biggest retailer in the UK and Europe.

It stands to reason they would have the largest stock order. If those weren't shifting at the required speed, then they aren't going to want potentially tens of thousands of £ of stock sat there and hence this discount. I wonder how close that is to net price for them?

Wayland has a reputation for taking and not fulfilling orders. Things may have improved in recent times, but I for one would never order from them, on account I’m quite fond of reliably receiving My Stuff.

Element, my source of preference, offered its initial 20% discount, and it’s now 15%. Which is their standard practice, as one gains the benefit of their Crystals programme. Darksphere is still offering its standard 20%

I’ve also, in the past, ordered from Firestorm and Goblin Gaming.

Goblin, standard 20%. Firestorm, 15%.

They’re not exactly fringe sellers, either. Both carry extensive and varied lines.

Sooooooooooooo……..

 Albertorius wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not the German ones.

Ah, didn't check those... interesting! That should be indicative of something I expect.

german law that books are never to be discounted, which doesn't apply to foreign books

Is that actually a law?

Not entirely sure I support it.

Yup, the so-called Buchpreisbindung which is also a fittingly German word (sth like "book price obligation")

(oh, forgot to mention that the law itself is called Buchpreisbindungsgesetz, of course)

 MobileSuitRandom wrote:
Yup, the so-called Buchpreisbindung which is also a fittingly German word (sth like "book price obligation")

(oh, forgot to mention that the law itself is called Buchpreisbindungsgesetz, of course)

I keep forgetting what a sexy language has evolved in Germany.

**

Is this anti discount on books published in country? Or books in the German language?

This is actually more fascinating than the last 5 pages of Horus Heresy sadness.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Wayland has a reputation for taking and not fulfilling orders. Things may have improved in recent times, but I for one would never order from them, on account I’m quite fond of reliably receiving My Stuff.
.

Waylands issues were basically historical with the old store because it wasn't perfectly linked to their inventory and they used a "green in stock" icon for "in stock and ordered regularly" which could mean you waited an extra week for your model because it wasn't in stock and was ordered; but could also end up taking way longer if Wayland couldn't then source the product.

This basically all vanished years back when they changed to their new inventory system which is hardlinked to their stock levels. Heck if your order goes a week (or two I forget which) without being updated you get an automated reminder about it prompting you if you want to refund. Which you get if you've ordered anything early on a GW pre-order because of their new 2 week release policy.

 MobileSuitRandom wrote:
Yup, the so-called Buchpreisbindung which is also a fittingly German word (sth like "book price obligation")

(oh, forgot to mention that the law itself is called Buchpreisbindungsgesetz, of course)

Well, I guess I’ll be googling the origin of that law! Sounds genuinely interesting as a piece of legislation.

All the retailers that show availability numbers have loads of stock left, such as https://alchemistsworkshops.com/product/warhammer-the-horus-heresy-age-of-darkness-saturnine/
By all accounts these guys started at 300 boxes but still have 244 left.
Will be interesting to see if other retailers follow waylands lead to try to shift stock. All in all this is another sign that GW have messed up.

Personally the box still doesn't hold enough value, as I have no interest in the rules and the saturine are not my thing. maybe if it dips below £100 I'll bite.

So. We got a tiny piece of how Knights are going to be fielded.

If you are Mechanicum you can field certain Mechanicum allies, if you are Questoris you can field certain Solar Auxilia forces.

You can't mix and match.

I don't know enough about the Mechanicum forces, are they any good?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Is that actually a law?

Not entirely sure I support it.

Dunno about Germany, but in Spain, by law the maximum amount to can discount a book by is 5%


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Wayland has a reputation for taking and not fulfilling orders. Things may have improved in recent times, but I for one would never order from them, on account I’m quite fond of reliably receiving My Stuff.

Had. Past tense. 10+ years ago. Before they revamped completely how they show you their stock levels. In the Before times xD

I have not had a single cancellation, or any other kind of problems with ordering from Wayland since.... 2015? Whereabouts. And I've ordered plenty. I, too, am quite fond of reliably receiving My Stuff.

Sooooooooooo....

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Oh that's not a good look

What's interesting to me is it implies internet hype/dooming has a massive impact on sales, as I don't see a reason for HH 3.0 to tank other than the leaks of how horrible it is. Aren't we supposed to be the loud minority, either way?

I have seen some cope-adjacent commentary about this. Some thinking seems to be that it's either the units in the box not being greatly appealing for either new players or veterans, or the rules changes turning veterans off.

One source of that is the Lords of War youtube channel (this video). But they also predicted the Saturnine box would be a gangbusters release and then walked it back when they saw the soft sales and started workshopping the excuses I present above.

I'm not overly fond of the minis, but there's lots of them... for me they have passed the "good god that's insane" level in the box pricing.

245 euros for a starter box is... entirely waaaay too much, for me, no matter what's inside.

 Altruizine wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Oh that's not a good look

What's interesting to me is it implies internet hype/dooming has a massive impact on sales, as I don't see a reason for HH 3.0 to tank other than the leaks of how horrible it is. Aren't we supposed to be the loud minority, either way?

I have seen some cope-adjacent commentary about this. Some thinking seems to be that it's either the units in the box not being greatly appealing for either new players or veterans, or the rules changes turning veterans off.

One source of that is the Lords of War youtube channel (this video). But they also predicted the Saturnine box would be a gangbusters release and then walked it back when they saw the soft sales and started workshopping the excuses I present above.

There's a huge list of reasons it won't be a massive success, the negativity wave is just the icing on the cake really. You have to remember the game is 95% space marines and people are forever fed up of having space marines shoved in their face. For a lot of people 40k is the entry path to 30k, so a lot of them simply lose access to their faction of choice in return for... marines as far as the eye can see.

Dudeface wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Oh that's not a good look

What's interesting to me is it implies internet hype/dooming has a massive impact on sales, as I don't see a reason for HH 3.0 to tank other than the leaks of how horrible it is. Aren't we supposed to be the loud minority, either way?

I have seen some cope-adjacent commentary about this. Some thinking seems to be that it's either the units in the box not being greatly appealing for either new players or veterans, or the rules changes turning veterans off.

One source of that is the Lords of War youtube channel (this video). But they also predicted the Saturnine box would be a gangbusters release and then walked it back when they saw the soft sales and started workshopping the excuses I present above.

There's a huge list of reasons it won't be a massive success, the negativity wave is just the icing on the cake really. You have to remember the game is 95% space marines and people are forever fed up of having space marines shoved in their face. For a lot of people 40k is the entry path to 30k, so a lot of them simply lose access to their faction of choice in return for... marines as far as the eye can see.

That was exactly the same for the 2.0 boxes, though, and it seems they sold better, initially at least.