Horus Heresy / 30K N&R

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**MarkNorfolk**

Everyone is waiting with. Baited breath for MkIV… the blandest, dullest, most unappealing armour :-D Bring on MkV, MkI and even MkVII first!

**Ashiraya**

MK1 was obsolete by this era and only used very rarely in ceremonies, so don't expect to see it in a kit other than perhaps for a special character (but even that is unlikely).

MKVII already has a plastic kit newer than the current MKIV. With 40k tossing loyalist firstborn increasingly by the wayside, I think MKVII appearing in 30k is inevitable, especially with the Mars book in 2.0 doing some quiet retcons seemingly to set the stage for it being introduced earlier than before. I don't expect it to be imminent though. GW has a lot of this barrel to dig through before they have to start scraping the bottom.

**Jack Flask**

Hasn't MkI also been sort of "soft reconned" to be primarily the armor that the Thunder Warriors used prior to being replaced by the Astartes in Mk2?

I'm sure there are examples of Astartes using MkI at the start of the Crusade as well as possibly during parade use, but I'd much more likely expect GW would only do Mk1 if they were also going to release Thunder Warriors. And given how reticent they seem about releasing Crusade Era Xenos or even Heresy era Daemons, I don't think we're likely to get Thunder Warriors any time soon...

**MajorWesJanson**

Wasn't Mk I unsealed and thus unsuitable for duty off of Terra?

**MarkNorfolk**

Ashiraya wrote:
MK1 was obsolete by this era and only used very rarely in ceremonies, so don't expect to see it in a kit other than perhaps for a special character (but even that is unlikely).

Jack Flask wrote:
Hasn't MkI also been sort of "soft reconned" to be primarily the armor that the Thunder Warriors used prior to being replaced by the Astartes in Mk2?

MajorWesJanson wrote:
Wasn't Mk I unsealed and thus unsuitable for duty off of Terra?

Well, I'm more of a rule-of-cool sort of person. I find the MkIV as dull as dishwater, so any other Mk would be preferable to me. But I know I'm in the minority....

**farmersboy**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
Wasn't Mk I unsealed and thus unsuitable for duty off of Terra?

Correct, it possessed no atmospheric protection or life-support, and provided power to the torso and arms only.

The first proper breakdown of the various types of power armour was in WD129, Sept. 1990.

**Kid_Kyoto**

farmersboy wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:
Wasn't Mk I unsealed and thus unsuitable for duty off of Terra?

Correct, it possessed no atmospheric protection or life-support, and provided power to the torso and arms only.

The first proper breakdown of the various types of power armour was in WD129, Sept. 1990.

Don't care. I'd pay for Mk1 Thunder Warriors any day. Call them a desperate effort to meet demand in the final days of the Heresy.

**Ashiraya**

Jack Flask wrote:
Hasn't MkI also been sort of "soft reconned" to be primarily the armor that the Thunder Warriors used prior to being replaced by the Astartes in Mk2?

I'm sure there are examples of Astartes using MkI at the start of the Crusade as well as possibly during parade use, but I'd much more likely expect GW would only do Mk1 if they were also going to release Thunder Warriors. And given how reticent they seem about releasing Crusade Era Xenos or even Heresy era Daemons, I don't think we're likely to get Thunder Warriors any time soon...

I think you may be referring to the scene in the Valdor novel where Ushotan's surviving Thunder Warriors get killed by Valdor leading a bunch of prototype Astartes in what sounds like mark 2.

This scene takes place when the Emperor has already reached Luna (unbeknownst to most at the scene), so I believe old lore stating that both Astartes and Thunder Warriors used MK1 for a little while to be correct.

**beast_gts**

There's an Iron Hands character - might be Amadeus DuCaine - who wore MK1 during the Unification Wars & Great Crusade.

EDIT: It is DuCaine - 1st page of FERRUS MANUS: GORGON OF MEDUSA:

Amadeus DuCaine thumped shoulder-first into the rockcrete wall.
He dropped to one knee, turned his back, calmly ejected the spent magazine from his bolter and snapped home another of the specially tagged sickle-mags. As he did so he noticed the las-burn on his vambrace, cursed aloud, and took a moment to buff it out using the wrist of the opposite gauntlet. He'd been taught to go into battle looking as he'd want the Apothecaries to find him. Today was no different.
The thick harness of his Mk I Thunder Armour was so polished a black that it shone under the inconstant light and creeping ice like volcanic glass, covered in company and campaign citations, most of which the Legion no longer officially recognised. Of them all, his pride was the Seal of the Eye of Vigilance, etched in platinum into the cheek guard of his tall helm. He had earned it in the latter years of the Seraphina offensive, campaigning alongside Lord Horus after the X Legion's annihilation of the ork forces on Rust. Good years. A curtain of chainmail, alternating rings of black iron and silver, hung from his shoulder guards. A collar of iron spikes traced the rear of his gorget ring and rose behind the back of his head. He carried a Clan Sorrgol banner as a cloak. It was heavy velvet, reinforced with a metal weave, weighted with onyx, black spinel and star sapphire, and glazed with ice. The clan device was picked out in silver.

and it includes a helmet of some type - "his tall helm".

**SamusDrake**

Right now we're waiting on Daemons and Militia to be introduced, new plastic kits for Solar, Mechanicum, Knights and Custodes, and not to mention the first plastic Titan. Where 30K is concerned, new armour patterns for Marines are just not on the list of priorities.

If going with so many different armour patterns, legion bling and optional war gear, then it would be better to introduce a stand alone Heresy skirmish game, where infantry are the focus.

**Prometheum5**

SamusDrake wrote:

If going with so many different armour patterns, legion bling and optional war gear, then it would be better to introduce a stand alone Heresy skirmish game, where infantry are the focus.

Now we're talking.

**Bob Lorgar**

SamusDrake wrote:
Right now we're waiting on Daemons and Militia to be introduced, new plastic kits for Solar, Mechanicum, Knights and Custodes, and not to mention the first plastic Titan. Where 30K is concerned, new armour patterns for Marines are just not on the list of priorities.

If going with so many different armour patterns, legion bling and optional war gear, then it would be better to introduce a stand alone Heresy skirmish game, where infantry are the focus.

"We" aren't waiting for any of that. We're waiting for the day when they remember the World Eaters exist. Maybe in another decade or two.

**Snord**

SamusDrake wrote:
Right now we're waiting on Daemons and Militia to be introduced, new plastic kits for Solar, Mechanicum, Knights and Custodes, and not to mention the first plastic Titan. Where 30K is concerned, new armour patterns for Marines are just not on the list of priorities.

I’d say another Marine armour variant is at least as likely as any of those things, and far more likely than any models for Daemons and Militia. Probably Mk IV, although I’m in the minority that wants Mk V.

**SamusDrake**

Bob Lorgar wrote:

"We" aren't waiting for any of that. We're waiting for the day when they remember the World Eaters exist. Maybe in another decade or two.

The charming chaps with chain axes?

https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/shop/legiones-astartes-mk2-assault-squad-2025

...how you missed this glorious kit is beyond me!

**lord_blackfang**

Bob Lorgar wrote:

"We" aren't waiting for any of that. We're waiting for the day when they remember the World Eaters exist. Maybe in another decade or two.

One of two legions with an updated Daemon Primarch and two sets of Rites of War? Yeah GW probably forgot about them

**Mr_Rose**

farmersboy wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:
Wasn't Mk I unsealed and thus unsuitable for duty off of Terra?

Correct, it possessed no atmospheric protection or life-support, and provided power to the torso and arms only.

The first proper breakdown of the various types of power armour was in WD129, Sept. 1990.

If you think about it, several of the marine implants are compensating for the issues with thunder armour; lungs that can breath anything, eyes and ears that bypass the lack of HUD, that sort of thing. Then Mk II comes along and basically makes them redundant.

**Rosebuddy**

I'd like a box of marines in mk1 armour because I think it would look good and would be fun. They don't have to make sense for the heresy game, I don't play that anyway, they just have to be good models.

**Lord Damocles**

GW would retcon when MkI armour was in use in a second in order to sell a kit.

**Ashiraya**

Mr_Rose wrote:

If you think about it, several of the marine implants are compensating for the issues with thunder armour; lungs that can breath anything, eyes and ears that bypass the lack of HUD, that sort of thing. Then Mk II comes along and basically makes them redundant.

Space Marines cannot survive hard vacuum unprotected, nor breathe it (in fact even Primarchs are supposed to be unable to, and on occasions where they do it seems to be due to their supernatural Warp-infused nature), so that's a big problem for a, well, Space Marine.

Their senses definitely do not compensate fully for their helmet's auto-senses. It's possible that Space Wolf ones do, which is why Space Wolves often like to go helmetless, but it's not standard.

**skrulnik**

Ashiraya wrote:
Mr_Rose wrote:

If you think about it, several of the marine implants are compensating for the issues with thunder armour; lungs that can breath anything, eyes and ears that bypass the lack of HUD, that sort of thing. Then Mk II comes along and basically makes them redundant.

Space Marines cannot survive hard vacuum unprotected, nor breathe it (in fact even Primarchs are supposed to be unable to, and on occasions where they do it seems to be due to their supernatural Warp-infused nature), so that's a big problem for a, well, Space Marine.

Their senses definitely do not compensate fully for their helmet's auto-senses. It's possible that Space Wolf ones do, which is why Space Wolves often like to go helmetless, but it's not standard.

Also, NASA seems to believe strongly in redundant systems.
If the primary goes out, you always have backup.
Stands to reason that a superhuman God Emperor leading a secular crusade would lean on good science practices.

**Dryaktylus**

MkI was used by some Blackshields (WD article Armour through the ages for 2nd edition), so it wasn't entirely gone. It's not something really needed, but a small kit.... why not. It's not like all the battles are in hard vacuum - most troops of the Mechanicum, Solar Auxilia, Sisters of Silence and especially Militia aren't able to survive there too.

**Ashiraya**

Oh it's definitely coming eventually. So long as this game keeps selling, GW will scrape the bottom of the barrel for releases. I am more worried about the stuff they'll have to make up wholesale to keep releases going, rather than just refresh and release stuff that doesn't have miniatures yet (since who knows whether that'll be good).

I don't think MK1 is coming any time soon though. It's definitely going to be the last main mark to arrive and I kind of doubt it'll get a full squad box.

**Da Boss**

If they made a really cool Mk1 kit I would buy it. It'd be the Heresy armour mark that's most interesting to me.

**farmersboy**

Mr_Rose wrote:
farmersboy wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:
Wasn't Mk I unsealed and thus unsuitable for duty off of Terra?

Correct, it possessed no atmospheric protection or life-support, and provided power to the torso and arms only.

The first proper breakdown of the various types of power armour was in WD129, Sept. 1990.

If you think about it, several of the marine implants are compensating for the issues with thunder armour; lungs that can breath anything, eyes and ears that bypass the lack of HUD, that sort of thing. Then Mk II comes along and basically makes them redundant.

Power armour never had HUD, the autosenses fed directly into the brain via a neural connector when the helmet was worn. In WD129 the Mk. IV armoured is described as the first where the helmet moves with the wearers head, due to improvements in neural connector tech. In the HH novel Fulgrim there's a description of a marine removing his helmet and shaking his head as he gets used to using his own senses again.

**Ashiraya**

farmersboy wrote:
In WD129 the Mk. IV armoured is described as the first where the helmet moves with the wearers head, due to improvements in neural connector tech.

This appears to have been quietly retconned a long, long time ago. You would have to go very far back indeed to get MKII and MKIII models that don't come with helmets that can rotate, and they were even portrayed as such on their store pages.

**MajorWesJanson**

Could be retconned that mk 2 and 3 started out with solid sealed neck joints, were later replaced with mobile unpowered ones, and mk 4 was the first to have a powered neck joint that matched the user like how the shoulder pads do.

**RaptorusRex**

Dryaktylus wrote:
MkI was used by some Blackshields (WD article Armour through the ages for 2nd edition), so it wasn't entirely gone. It's not something really needed, but a small kit.... why not. It's not like all the battles are in hard vacuum - most troops of the Mechanicum, Solar Auxilia, Sisters of Silence and especially Militia aren't able to survive there too.

Not to be a pedant, but Solar Auxilia most definitely are able to fight in hard vacuum. Void armour is exactly that. It's fully sealed and has life support systems.

**Ashiraya**

Absolutely. Auxilia handle the literal Space Marine jobs that need doing but that there aren't enough Space Marines in the galaxy for, which can still be just as dangerous.

**Mr_Rose**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
Could be retconned that mk 2 and 3 started out with solid sealed neck joints, were later replaced with mobile unpowered ones, and mk 4 was the first to have a powered neck joint that matched the user like how the shoulder pads do.

I heard it was the other way around; they were always meant to have moveable heads but the first mini clearly didn't, so some fluff was written like that then the sculptor even came out and said that was a mistake and it was quietly dropped.

**SgtEeveell**

Ashiraya wrote:
Oh it's definitely coming eventually. So long as this game keeps selling, GW will scrape the bottom of the barrel for releases. I am more worried about the stuff they'll have to make up wholesale to keep releases going, rather than just refresh and release stuff that doesn't have miniatures yet (since who knows whether that'll be good).

I don't think MK1 is coming any time soon though. It's definitely going to be the last main mark to arrive and I kind of doubt it'll get a full squad box.

Uh, you do know that it's all made up don't you?
The only difference is whether it was made up 20+ years ago, or this year.