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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
that Be'Lakor was always in 40k and just needed an excuse for an updated profile

Ah, I thought his introduction to 40K was a relatively recent development.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
As an aside, have Dexcesssa and Synessa been shoe horned into 40K yet, like Belakor was?

I just bought a Synessa for my new Hedonite army and if there is crossover, that'd be cool if I ever decide to get back into 40K in some capacity.

Not yet, though the difference being that Be'Lakor was always in 40k and just needed an excuse for an updated profile while Dex & Syn are new characters with potency high enough to justify more than a 'this dude is a thing now' in a new codex. Will probably just be that though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I wasn't expecting two wound Plaguebearers. What they really need is ap on their sword.

They went to 2W in AoS recently, so I'm expecting it in 40k. Also makes the DG version of disgustingly resilient work, though still the exact fething opposite of it's fluff.

Were they updated recently? I have the new Maggotkin codex, and off the top of my head, I thought that they only had one wound. And how is the new DR not fluffy? Both Plague Marines and Nurgle daemons are famous for their durability.

Aos plaguebearers got wound on 3rd ed battletome so last fall.

And how is the new DR not fluffy? Both Plague Marines and Nurgle daemons are famous for their durability.

Against small arms, yeah. Which DR doesn't affect at all.

They basically have DR that doesn't matter at all against lasguns or bolters, matters A LOT against heavy bolters and autocannons and then doesn't really matter again against bigger damage weapons (d6+2 & etc). Its a bizarre niche that doesn't fit the fluff, but worked really well against the D2 spam that the loyalist SM codex provoked. The Death Guard codex was basically a meta-counter book, and faded pretty quick once that metagame state lost popularity.

I hope limiting GD to 1 per detachment means they will be super strong and tanky.

If Daemons are to have armour saves give them a 3+ at least.
And probably a way to reduce damage taken.

Kairos getting +1/2/3/4/5 to cast based on the round sounds hilarious.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
As an aside, have Dexcesssa and Synessa been shoe horned into 40K yet, like Belakor was?

I just bought a Synessa for my new Hedonite army and if there is crossover, that'd be cool if I ever decide to get back into 40K in some capacity.

Not yet, though the difference being that Be'Lakor was always in 40k and just needed an excuse for an updated profile while Dex & Syn are new characters with potency high enough to justify more than a 'this dude is a thing now' in a new codex. Will probably just be that though.

I'm tempted to say that the twins shouldn't get ported over to 40k because their story is that they're basically the rebirth of Slaanesh. But since GW wouldn't pass up a chance to sell the models to 40k players, I'm sure they'll make up some BS reason for their appearance. I mean, the mechanical Soul Grinder made it into WHFB...

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
As an aside, have Dexcesssa and Synessa been shoe horned into 40K yet, like Belakor was?

I just bought a Synessa for my new Hedonite army and if there is crossover, that'd be cool if I ever decide to get back into 40K in some capacity.

Not yet, though the difference being that Be'Lakor was always in 40k and just needed an excuse for an updated profile while Dex & Syn are new characters with potency high enough to justify more than a 'this dude is a thing now' in a new codex. Will probably just be that though.

I'm tempted to say that the twins shouldn't get ported over to 40k because their story is that they're basically the rebirth of Slaanesh. But since GW wouldn't pass up a chance to sell the models to 40k players, I'm sure they'll make up some BS reason for their appearance. I mean, the mechanical Soul Grinder made it into WHFB...

To be fair, the mechanical Juggernaught of Khorne had been in WHFB much longer.

 Sasori wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
As an aside, have Dexcesssa and Synessa been shoe horned into 40K yet, like Belakor was?

I just bought a Synessa for my new Hedonite army and if there is crossover, that'd be cool if I ever decide to get back into 40K in some capacity.

I hope so, I'd like to see both of them.

Not I, I prefer they keep 40k and age of sigmar distinct. Then again I have no interest in age of sigmar.

I like it when they keep all Chaos Daemons compatible with both games. Including Dexcesssa and Synessa would be fun.

Limited Greater Daemons on the other hand could be anti-fun. I like the idea of a "Four Winds" army that has one of each.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Honestly, as someone who owns something like 80 Bloodletters, 140 Daemonettes, 90 Horrors, 100 Plaguebearers, 60 Seekers, 27 Screamers, 36 Flamers, 60 Nurgling bases, etc. etc. etc. I'm perfectly okay with Daemons remaining a horde army.

But, if they didn't, and you complained... would that be manufactured outrage?

1 greater daemon per detachment?

RIP people that played lots of Khorne-only stuff and regularly brought 3 Bloodthirsters because it was the only way to get some decent punch in your list.

I guess we'll see what else comes of this, but being limited to only 1 greater daemon reeks a bit.

tneva82 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
How is an armor save that ignores AP modifiers different from an invul save? Not sure I understand that design chhoice.

Those would ignore ignore inv save weapons.

So, basically ++++ save. Instead of, you know, nerfing idiotic Tau design choices. Wanna bet next Tau book will have guns ignoring ignoring AP modifiers? Or just saying no saves of any kind can be taken to save on ink waste, because throwing chunk of iron at them magically deletes even demigod level greater daemons eldar and necrons can't touch, go figure

And man, with 2D being common as dirt in this book we will suuure see more vehicles on the table, eh?

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Rumor sounds like Daemons returning to their pre-6th edition status of a more elite army rather than the horde they've become since then. Which is not necessarily bad.

It is kinda bad because it will leave niche of durable horde dead (by save not T, something something orkstodes) while elite slot is being really overcrowded. Making daemons into another flavor of SM, just gimmicky ones this time, will kinda make the game poorer. It will also destroy them as synergy army they are supposed to be in lore (buffed by characters/actions/army rules/game turn etc etc) because with increased stats buffs will be deleted or virtually meaningless to compensate.

 nels1031 wrote:
As an aside, have Dexcesssa and Synessa been shoe horned into 40K yet, like Belakor was?

Not really, same as with AoS unique S daemon prince model. All three are the size of new DP though, so can be used as S specific one?

 blood reaper wrote:
I hated the horde-ification of Daemons. Legitimately one of the worst choices GW has ever made.

If you actually read the chaos lore, the whole point of daemons in battle is endless numbers and overwhelming the enemy with first strike, before they weaken and poof from lack of energy and victims. Oh wait, my bad, I forgot in fanfiction even a lowly nurgling can easily beat ten custodes and everything chaos is bestest ever, do carry on, the army with the biggest number of cheap, small 25 mm base models in the game is sure elite not horde, silly me

Boosykes wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
As an aside, have Dexcesssa and Synessa been shoe horned into 40K yet, like Belakor was?

I just bought a Synessa for my new Hedonite army and if there is crossover, that'd be cool if I ever decide to get back into 40K in some capacity.

I hope so, I'd like to see both of them.

Not I, I prefer they keep 40k and age of sigmar distinct. Then again I have no interest in age of sigmar.

These are Daemon models. The distinction would be the range of Hedonite mortals that would not get ported over. The twins would fit perfectly fine in 40k and the systems would still remain distinct.

It was at the height of Morathi's ascension to godhood that a drop of Slaanesh's own divine essence broke free from imprisonment and fled the cave between realms. Called the Newborn, this cursed hybrid was suffused with both the Dark Prince's power and the residual energy absorbed by Morathi herself, coalescing into twin beings that mirrored each other in body and soul.

Yeeeeeeah...no. They might be Daemons but they're definitely AoS locked.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Yeeeeeeah...no. They might be Daemons but they're definitely AoS locked.

Because the fluff is set in stone and there's simply no way GW could write them differently to fit in 40k.

GW has a very long history of putting even named Daemons in any setting they have on sale at the time. So while the current background might suggest something else, I am pretty sure we will see those "AoS specific" ones in 40K sooner rather than later.

More sales trump background restrictions all the time.

 Darnok wrote:
GW has a very long history of putting even named Daemons in any setting they have on sale at the time. So while the current background might suggest something else, I am pretty sure we will see those "AoS specific" ones in 40K sooner rather than later.

More sales trump background restrictions all the time.

Yeah absolutely. I'd be very surprised if the Slaanesh Twins weren't in 40k. GW wants MORE ways to sell models, not less.

I am amused by the insinuation* that it would be self-serving corporate calculus for GW to... give us more options. That's the sort of win-win move we want to see.

*Though I could be wildly misreading things.

Voss wrote:

And how is the new DR not fluffy? Both Plague Marines and Nurgle daemons are famous for their durability.

Against small arms, yeah. Which DR doesn't affect at all.

They basically have DR that doesn't matter at all against lasguns or bolters, matters A LOT against heavy bolters and autocannons and then doesn't really matter again against bigger damage weapons (d6+2 & etc). Its a bizarre niche that doesn't fit the fluff, but worked really well against the D2 spam that the loyalist SM codex provoked. The Death Guard codex was basically a meta-counter book, and faded pretty quick once that metagame state lost popularity.

getting a second wound means theyre twice as resilient to small arms
getting T5 means theyre (some %) more resilient to small arms

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Voss wrote:

And how is the new DR not fluffy? Both Plague Marines and Nurgle daemons are famous for their durability.

Against small arms, yeah. Which DR doesn't affect at all.

They basically have DR that doesn't matter at all against lasguns or bolters, matters A LOT against heavy bolters and autocannons and then doesn't really matter again against bigger damage weapons (d6+2 & etc). Its a bizarre niche that doesn't fit the fluff, but worked really well against the D2 spam that the loyalist SM codex provoked. The Death Guard codex was basically a meta-counter book, and faded pretty quick once that metagame state lost popularity.

getting a second wound means theyre twice as resilient to small arms
getting T5 means theyre (some %) more resilient to small arms

second wound means they're the same as every marine. (regardless of how long it took to roll it out to chaos marines, that was the standard set back at the beginning of the edition)
'getting t5' is just puzzling. I honestly don't remember a time they weren't (including the weird 4(5) for instant death purposes), but I'll have to double check the RoC:LotD list.

But their chief rule for being Plague Marines doesn't make them more durable to small arms.

Their 2nd Wound is a Marine thing, not a Death Guard thing, and they've always been T5.

The major army rule meant to show off the resilience of Death Guard did exactly as Voss described.

Plaguebearers are not Marines, so their rumored second wound is not a Marine thing.

 Tyran wrote:
Plaguebearers are not Marines, so their rumored second wound is not a Marine thing.

If you missed the context, we were talking about the Death Guard Disgustingly Resilient rule. ArcaneHorror wanted to know why/how it wasn't fluffy.

Voss wrote:

And how is the new DR not fluffy? Both Plague Marines and Nurgle daemons are famous for their durability.

Against small arms, yeah. Which DR doesn't affect at all.

They basically have DR that doesn't matter at all against lasguns or bolters, matters A LOT against heavy bolters and autocannons and then doesn't really matter again against bigger damage weapons (d6+2 & etc). Its a bizarre niche that doesn't fit the fluff, but worked really well against the D2 spam that the loyalist SM codex provoked. The Death Guard codex was basically a meta-counter book, and faded pretty quick once that metagame state lost popularity.

Yeah and against small arms they're guaranteed to survive one shot no matter what thanks to being W2

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Voss wrote:

And how is the new DR not fluffy? Both Plague Marines and Nurgle daemons are famous for their durability.

Against small arms, yeah. Which DR doesn't affect at all.

They basically have DR that doesn't matter at all against lasguns or bolters, matters A LOT against heavy bolters and autocannons and then doesn't really matter again against bigger damage weapons (d6+2 & etc). Its a bizarre niche that doesn't fit the fluff, but worked really well against the D2 spam that the loyalist SM codex provoked. The Death Guard codex was basically a meta-counter book, and faded pretty quick once that metagame state lost popularity.

Yeah and against small arms they're guaranteed to survive one shot no matter what thanks to being W2

And so is every other marine, so disgustingly resilient does nothing to help this. I'm really not sure what's unclear here.
Disgustingly Resilient does nothing against small arms.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I am amused by the insinuation* that it would be self-serving corporate calculus for GW to... give us more options. That's the sort of win-win move we want to see.

*Though I could be wildly misreading things.

Right? Daemons let you play both games, that's potentially an entire full separate army GW is missing out on selling to someone. Daemon stuff seems pretty good for the average customer. 🤷

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Yeeeeeeah...no. They might be Daemons but they're definitely AoS locked.

Because the fluff is set in stone and there's simply no way GW could write them differently to fit in 40k.

NVM the fact that they've established pretty clearly that theres some sort of crossover between AoS chaos and 40k chaos. The warp/realm of chaos that runs through both settings is basically the same plane of non-existence or whatever you want to call it. The mortal realms aren't a place within the 40k setting, they're effectively a different dimension, but the warp connects both dimensions together.

After thinking about it, I just want to see the 3 Bloodthirsters rolled into a single entry. Just give it weapons options like the others and be done with it.

 nels1031 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
that Be'Lakor was always in 40k and just needed an excuse for an updated profile

Ah, I thought his introduction to 40K was a relatively recent development.

He was introduced in 6th or 7th Ed through a paid DLC Warscroll that also updated him for 8th ed WHFB pre-End Times. It also retcon'd Doombreed from being the first DP in 40K.

Wow I didn’t realize they screwed DOOMBREED over like that! Belekor better hope Breed doesn’t find out cuz he would get curbstomped Lickety split! Breed don’t play that kinda disrespect! :(