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CadianSgtBob wrote:

Toofast wrote:
Invalidates existing collections of the few people that had models for a game that hasn't been made in 25 years. I think making something that new customers want to buy is more important to them than keeping people with dusty epic stuff in their closet and 3D printers happy.

Ok? You can argue the merits of a scale change but that doesn't mean the scale change was just uniformed people ranting on the internet, as the person I was replying to claimed.

That was not exactly what I said, but anyway. The point here was that some of the people, among them quite many uninformed ones, did get their proverbial knickers in a twist over a matter that really doesn't warrant it and latched onto the 8 mm statement by the WarCom media team (who were very much wrong on that account, as they often are. The launch of AT was a particularly fun time, when pretty much every single article on WarCom was erroneous for months on end).

No collections were invalidated. Epic doesn't really care about miniature sizes, people can and regularly do happily play their slightly differently scaled armies against each other as long as the basing fits the (very form agnostic) basing standards. Heck, people play new and old titans against each other without a hitch The original titans from the end of 80's are made in 2-3 mm scale, later infantry in 6~ish mm, tanks closer to 4 mm, Aeronautica 1.0 planes are 1/5 of 40k (which is not 6 mm yet still over twice the size of the first Epic planes like Thunderbricks!) and so on. Just the basic Space Marine troopers have had like 2-3 mm differences in height between their early and late 90's incarnations. Epic scales have always been all over the place with the "about 6 mm" infantry setting the general feel of the games. The current move to "heroic 6 mm" (which can, again, be trivially measured from the current models that have human-sized hatches, doors and such details in them as well) is the best attempt at standardizing the scale that GW has ever done, which will still end up with some funny shenanigans like comically small Rhinos but hey-ho.

Yes, the scaling has changed at parts (titans up from tiny, planes up to 1/4 from 1/5 or smaller etc.). It has, however, mostly done that to better standardize around the already used previous baseline: 6-7 mm human models. None of this invalidated anything and if you take a look at any Epic communities, everyone cheered when GW started making cool models for them again. That's it.

 Crimson wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:

You’d be surprised…

I'm not. The plastic head is not properly hollow and it doesn't seem like it is designed to fit things in it and the metal models are really chunky.

It doesn't still change the basic "divide by four math."

Note that these are chunky 7mm tall models, in 40k scale they’d be 28mm tall. But in contemporary 40k, regular humans tend to be between 32 and 35mm tall, so these figures would have to even. even bigger even further hollowed out, they probably wouldn’t fit in that Warhound’s head.

 Malika2 wrote:

Note that these are chunky 7mm tall models, in 40k scale they’d be 28mm tall. But in contemporary 40k, regular humans tend to be between 32 and 35mm tall, so these figures would have to even. even bigger even further hollowed out, they probably wouldn’t fit in that Warhound’s head.

Yet if you multiply their size of both the infantry and the titan by four, they provably do fit. I really don't understand what point you're trying to make here? It is undisputable that the AT scale is 1/4 of 40K scale.

So many rumors, like the 10th Edition thread, it's hard to digest them all.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Very sound advice, especially as GW's official returns to that eras properties haven't held a candle to the originals. I'm embarrassed at the things they put the Warhammer Quest brand on compared to what we got in 1995.

Next to Epic, the best game they ever made. Spent soooooo much time of my college years playing Warhammer Quest.

 Crimson wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:

Note that these are chunky 7mm tall models, in 40k scale they’d be 28mm tall. But in contemporary 40k, regular humans tend to be between 32 and 35mm tall, so these figures would have to even. even bigger even further hollowed out, they probably wouldn’t fit in that Warhound’s head.

Yet if you multiply their size of both the infantry and the titan by four, they provably do fit. I really don't understand what point you're trying to make here? It is undisputable that the AT scale is 1/4 of 40K scale.

I know the Titans and aircraft are 1/4th of 40k, but the point is that the rest if 40k is all over the place. And that for some reason 7mm humans have a hard time fitting inside that Warhound for some reason. There’s something similar happening with the tiny human sized door on the civitas terrain set which is too small to fit in a regular human, at least a 1/4 of 40k regular human model.

As long as no-one starta talking about fitting 10 guys in a classic Rhino


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way guys if anyone is interested in seeing some Epic projects upon reading this thread in a "things what we made" thread, where people post their Epic projects, there is one down in the Specialist Games section of the forum
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/480/791159.page

I'm sure I remember seeing a diorama showing 10 RT Marines fitting inside a classic Rhino (with added interior detailing), but I can't remember where/when.

 Dysartes wrote:
I'm sure I remember seeing a diorama showing 10 RT Marines fitting inside a classic Rhino (with added interior detailing), but I can't remember where/when.

Someone did this - it's tight, but doable:

 zedmeister wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
I'm sure I remember seeing a diorama showing 10 RT Marines fitting inside a classic Rhino (with added interior detailing), but I can't remember where/when.

Someone did this - it's tight, but doable:

That is the single greatest thing I've seen!

That’s only 9 Marines.

Ah ah ah!

"Brother Ezekiel, there's no room! You'll have to take the next Rhino!"

"Its alright, I can squeeze in here...see! Plenty of room!"

"For the love of the Emperor, get off the steering wheel! How do you expect me to drive this thing?"

"Hold tight Brothers, for we have been in tigher spots...urgh!"

"The backside of a Carnifex we have! Who's responsible for deployment issues?"

"I'm having words with the Chapter master when we get back!!!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That’s only 9 Marines.

Ah ah ah!

The two seats in the driver's cabin are still empty, so Sarge will be sitting there

The long and short of it is that the new Titans and Aeronautica Imperialis models were a better fit to classic Epic infantry than the original models were.

 ritualnet wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
I'm sure I remember seeing a diorama showing 10 RT Marines fitting inside a classic Rhino (with added interior detailing), but I can't remember where/when.

Someone did this - it's tight, but doable:

That is the single greatest thing I've seen!

You know in my head that's mostly how I imagined it. 6 marines sitting on the benches either side and then 3 in the middle facing the rear ramp.

Maybe each marine has a little pull handle under their armpits that you tug and it deflates their shoulder pads to a normal size before getting in transport.

 Sherrypie wrote:
The two seats in the driver's cabin are still empty, so Sarge will be sitting there

Typical, the Sarge is up front drinking tea and ignoring the muffled moans in the back

The core issue with all the "does the infantry fit in vehicles" thing is the various level of heroic scaling, which will get more extreme (due the need to keep things visible) smaller the models are. So models might be roughly the correct height compared to the vehicles, but they're hella more chunkier than real people.

Man, remember when FW actually sold kits of infantry guys to shove into your transports?

 zedmeister wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
I'm sure I remember seeing a diorama showing 10 RT Marines fitting inside a classic Rhino (with added interior detailing), but I can't remember where/when.

Someone did this - it's tight, but doable:

Not far off the real BMP-2



it was so cramped in the back the passenger load was cut from 8 to 6 as they had a bad habit of coming out too cramped to actually fight

(and we know the imperium would never consider the comfort of their own troops)

Ivan! Close the door!
Sergey, that is not door, that is fuel tank.

Everyone say Lupercalifragilistic!

Okay. Everyone can move again. That photo will be great on the next Horus Heresy novel cover.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Sherrypie wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Seeing epic, at and ai are 6mm i really doubt they go for 10mm suddenly. Invalidates all at and ai models.

Wasn't there talk of AT being made in a 8mm infantry "scale"?

When AT launched in 2018, the designers said they chose the ~1/4 of 40k scale so that a marine (a very tall transhuman monster, not a regular person) would be about 8 mm tall because the details would still look nice in case they ever decided to do infantry as well. Their media team cocked up and the internet took this as "zomg 8 mm scale! All older Epic things are invalidated". The Titanicus models measure to about 1:267, which makes a normal 180 cm human about 6-7 mm tall, so the game is "6 mm scale" or "heroic 6 mm" as I like to call it. After the great flame wars over this scale, most people just refer to it as Titanicus scale now.

Surely it can't be 6mm now otherwise why would the Aeronautica Imperialis miniatures then be a noticeably different size to the previous models which were also supposedly 6mm?

To be clear, the answer is that old Epic aircraft and titans like Sherrypie said were not 6mm, they were smaller. The Titans and aircraft in AT/AI are now actually 6mm.

So if GW were to re-release Epic in a consistent 6mm scale, it would just use AT/AI titans and aircraft (which are noticeably bigger than their old-Epic counterparts), but the infantry would be about the same size as the old ones. Probably a little bigger because the typical size of a Marine has crept upwards, but not as significant a difference as the bigger stuff.

 catbarf wrote:


To be clear, the answer is that old Epic aircraft and titans like Sherrypie said were not 6mm, they were smaller. The Titans and aircraft in AT/AI are now actually 6mm.

So if GW were to re-release Epic in a consistent 6mm scale, it would just use AT/AI titans and aircraft (which are noticeably bigger than their old-Epic counterparts), but the infantry would be about the same size as the old ones.

The infantry would be about 8mm, because 40K normal humans are about 32mm, and 32/4=8. 6mm AT/AI infantry would only be 24mm in 40K scale, and that's smaller than the squats.

If the new Epic would be set in the 30K era I would definitely buy in. It would complement my future HH 2.0 force. Also it would solve the faction bloat 40K is suffering from by avoiding 40K in the first place. In HH there are only a couple of factions and being a "historical" setting in the franchise no new factions would bog the release schedule down. So I am all in.

Previously I was on the fence of buying a 3D printer but after some careful consideration I truly haven´t a great setup spot for it. The machine will eventually stink up my environment and I am not keen on that happening.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Man, remember when FW actually sold kits of infantry guys to shove into your transports?

They are not the only ones-

For the epic scale gorgon

 Strg Alt wrote:
If the new Epic would be set in the 30K era I would definitely buy in. It would complement my future HH 2.0 force. Also it would solve the faction bloat 40K is suffering from by avoiding 40K in the first place. In HH there are only a couple of factions and being a "historical" setting in the franchise no new factions would bog the release schedule down. So I am all in.

Previously I was on the fence of buying a 3D printer but after some careful consideration I truly haven´t a great setup spot for it. The machine will eventually stink up my environment and I am not keen on that happening.

I'm in the same position (no space for a 3d printer) but a friend of mine who does printed me some 8mm not-MK IV marines, not-Rhinos, not-Spartans, and not-Sicarans. The detail is fantastic. I want to use them with Future War Commander.

So there is no way for me to not sound like an ass asking this, but just to confirm, there isn't any real credible rumor for Epic, outside of "Valrak, a random dude on Youtube said" correct?

That feels like calling Ok_E a random dude on reddit or honestly any rumor source a random dude.

It's as credible as any other random dude we get rumors from.

 Togusa wrote:
So there is no way for me to not sound like an ass asking this, but just to confirm, there isn't any real credible rumor for Epic, outside of "Valrak, a random dude on Youtube said" correct?

Nothing at this time. All we do know is that we have Titanicus and Aeronautica, and both are very quiet at this time.

I'm hopeful that we'll hear something( anything ) for both games next month.