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tneva82 wrote: Seeing epic, at and ai are 6mm i really doubt they go for 10mm suddenly. Invalidates all at and ai models.
Wasn't there talk of AT being made in a 8mm infantry "scale"?
When AT launched in 2018, the designers said they chose the ~1/4 of 40k scale so that a marine (a very tall transhuman monster, not a regular person) would be about 8 mm tall because the details would still look nice in case they ever decided to do infantry as well. Their media team cocked up and the internet took this as "zomg 8 mm scale! All older Epic things are invalidated". The Titanicus models measure to about 1:267, which makes a normal 180 cm human about 6-7 mm tall, so the game is "6 mm scale" or "heroic 6 mm" as I like to call it. After the great flame wars over this scale, most people just refer to it as Titanicus scale now.
Surely it can't be 6mm now otherwise why would the Aeronautica Imperialis miniatures then be a noticeably different size to the previous models which were also supposedly 6mm?
To be clear, the answer is that old Epic aircraft and titans like Sherrypie said were not 6mm, they were smaller. The Titans and aircraft in AT/AI are now actually 6mm.
So if GW were to re-release Epic in a consistent 6mm scale, it would just use AT/AI titans and aircraft (which are noticeably bigger than their old-Epic counterparts), but the infantry would be about the same size as the old ones. Probably a little bigger because the typical size of a Marine has crept upwards, but not as significant a difference as the bigger stuff.
Also worth pointing out Epic never did have a set scale.
The Warlord Titan was of course first introduced in Adeptus Titanicus. Being a game of Titan vs Titan, as long as each chassis scaled well enough with the next, no harm done. But. Once it expanded into Space Marine? The infantry were about as small as they could make them, and still have each individual teensy tiny model visibly recognisable as it’s type. And so the Tanks kind of scaled with the Infantry - leaving the Titans as the odd scale, even though they arguably set a scale.
The same is true of the original 40K Rhino and Landraider. They were about as big as GW could make the die at the time. And like the Titans, being first out the gate that scale has never really changed. Though worth bearing in mind the RTB-01 Wombles are smaller than you might think if you’ve not seen or built them yourself.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Togusa wrote: So there is no way for me to not sound like an ass asking this, but just to confirm, there isn't any real credible rumor for Epic, outside of "Valrak, a random dude on Youtube said" correct?
Nothing at this time. All we do know is that we have Titanicus and Aeronautica, and both are very quiet at this time.
I'm hopeful that we'll hear something( anything ) for both games next month.
Yeah, I've been waiting ages for some good Titanicus content, and for the basic terrain to come back into stock. Epic would be kind of cool!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/07/14 21:48:54
Togusa wrote: I mean I don't watch or care about these people's content. They aren't GW employees, therefore to me, they are just random dudes on the internet.
So you have no way of evaluating what is a credible rumor and should stop trying to do so.
Rihgu wrote: That feels like calling Ok_E a random dude on reddit or honestly any rumor source a random dude.
It's as credible as any other random dude we get rumors from.
I mean I don't watch or care about these people's content. They aren't GW employees, therefore to me, they are just random dudes on the internet.
...if it was actual employees telling us these as rumours without having been told to do so, then they probably wouldn't be employees there for long...
Rihgu wrote: That feels like calling Ok_E a random dude on reddit or honestly any rumor source a random dude.
It's as credible as any other random dude we get rumors from.
Wut?
Ok_E has proven his legitimacy with a track record of giving us accurate info.
Valrak is a dude with a big mouthpiece on youtube who takes a shotgun approach to spitting out every rumor he comes across for clicks no matter how implausible or silly they might be.
They are not the same.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Tad hard to take him seriously when he basically posts "I have it on good authority that 40k Primarch Rogal Dorn will be released soon" multiple times a year.
Yes, its unfair/wrong to finger him as the source of a rumor that was originally posted by Faeit... but also, why is he signal boosting rumors posted by Faeit? Faeit is wrong way more often than Faeit is right and basically hasn't been the original source of an accurate rumor in a really damned long time. Basically everyone knows that, I would struggle to imagine that Valrak isn't aware of their reputation. Personally, I think as a very local GW community mouthpiece he has some responsibility to act as a filter for information and not promote or perpetuate likely misinformation.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Another defender of epic 40,000 here. I think it is the fourth best GW game after Warmaster, BFG and advanced space crusade.
Coenus Scaldingus wrote: In my day, you didn't recognize the greatest heroes of humanity because they had to ride the biggest creatures or be massive in size themselves. No, they had the most magnificent facial hair! If it was good enough for Kurt Helborg and Ludwig Schwarzhelm, it should be good enough for anyone!
Samsonov wrote: Another defender of epic 40,000 here. I think it is the fourth best GW game after Warmaster, BFG and advanced space crusade.
I would say Warmaster was the best wargame rules set - it focuses on C&C and as such can be ported to lots of different settings.
Epic A was the best wargame (within certain parameters so no breaking it by berating a non optimised oppo in army creation) doing combined arms with dynamic movement. It manages to be faithful to the 40k background in a way 40k fails miserably at.
BFG was a great game, even if it cheated by making you think playing with irconclads was how spaceships should feel
Advanced Space Crusade? Well I do remember a chat with Jervis many moons ago where he said the main problem was using every idea he had... Like Advanced Heroquest it had some mechanical problems where there were set tactics to use that were unfair, and once you know them it is hard not to use them. Both games really need the Space Crusade/Heroquest models added to it for variety (the 'Nids got mind control bugs to hand wave this away...).
Rihgu wrote: That feels like calling Ok_E a random dude on reddit or honestly any rumor source a random dude.
Valrak is a dude with a big mouthpiece on youtube who takes a shotgun approach to spitting out every rumor he comes across for clicks no matter how implausible or silly they might be.
They are not the same.
Yeah Valrak basically just reads Reddit, Dakka and a few other sources and then creates videos from what he's read, pretending he has 'sources'. I know this because I've literally seen the rumours that he creates videos on, pop up on Reddit etc, a few hours before he makes his vids. He might have a few sources beyond those but I bet they're limited at best. There's plenty better sources of rumours.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/07/15 16:17:36
Samsonov wrote: Another defender of epic 40,000 here. I think it is the fourth best GW game after Warmaster, BFG and advanced space crusade.
I would say Warmaster was the best wargame rules set - it focuses on C&C and as such can be ported to lots of different settings.
Epic A was the best wargame (within certain parameters so no breaking it by berating a non optimised oppo in army creation) doing combined arms with dynamic movement. It manages to be faithful to the 40k background in a way 40k fails miserably at.
Funny how that works, because I've mostly felt the other way around. But to each their own.
Or by 40k you mean regular Warhammer 40.000 instead of Epic: 40.000? Because then yeah, I agree
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/15 16:19:23
Epic being set in the Horus Heresy seems a bit odd. I could understand it for Titanicus as the majority of Titans are Imperial or Chaos with only a few Xenos ones, but limiting Epic to that setting too would be a bigger thing that takes out a large portion of variety. Not to mention there were also rumours a while back of A Heresy BFG game.
Rihgu wrote: That feels like calling Ok_E a random dude on reddit or honestly any rumor source a random dude.
Valrak is a dude with a big mouthpiece on youtube who takes a shotgun approach to spitting out every rumor he comes across for clicks no matter how implausible or silly they might be.
They are not the same.
Yeah Valrak basically just reads Reddit, Dakka and a few other sources and then creates videos from what he's read, pretending he has 'sources'. I know this because I've literally seen the rumours that he creates videos on, pop up on Reddit etc, a few hours before he makes his vids. He might have a few sources beyond those but I bet they're limited at best. There's plenty better sources of rumours.
I get the impression he's over-eager to report things without much actual checking things in the first place too. Like that video above where he said that the Codex saying The Lion being "healed and ready to return" was apparently evidence he'd be coming back soon....even though that exact thing about him being healed and waiting has been in the lore since at least 6th edition, possibly earlier.
Togusa wrote: I mean I don't watch or care about these people's content. They aren't GW employees, therefore to me, they are just random dudes on the internet.
So you have no way of evaluating what is a credible rumor and should stop trying to do so.
No, I just don't waste my time with youtube nobodies who constantly fill their channels full of click-bait tripe.
Epic set in HH era would be an incredible wasted chance.
And that's not for HH itself. Because a new Epic full of different races and game style IF the rules are good would be a great game, offering something different from the usual skirmish or msd battle game based in infantry.
Johanxp wrote: Epic set in HH era would be an incredible wasted chance.
And that's not for HH itself. Because a new Epic full of different races and game style IF the rules are good would be a great game, offering something different from the usual skirmish or msd battle game based in infantry.
The problem GW have is that they've been TOO successful since the games that made them in the past. We can point out how original AT and Space Marine were Heresy - indeed, invented it - purely to save costs. And as it, and they, took off they could afford to easily adjust the scope. Good news guys, here's rules for Orks. Have some Eldar too. Here's the Imperial Guard, and Squats, and actual Chaos! And so on. And we largely accepted that as the pace of things.
But now, those armies and races are out there. People have identified with them already, or in 40k, and want to use them, not more marines. And that support is wanted NOW, you see it even in this thread, hell it was a constant even with BFG back when, and that was always explicitly set up as Imps v Chaos with added piracy and NO previous models (sorry Doc, Space Fleet does NOT count, as charming as they were!). And given the ongoing complaints over Imperium-centrism (read: all power armour, all the time), perhaps that shouldn't be too surprising.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/16 07:02:51
Johanxp wrote: Epic set in HH era would be an incredible wasted chance.
And that's not for HH itself. Because a new Epic full of different races and game style IF the rules are good would be a great game, offering something different from the usual skirmish or msd battle game based in infantry.
I doubt GW would Start reboot Epic with such a big investment - they will start with HH because it's cheaper to produce only "one" faction.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/16 09:30:42
Johanxp wrote: Epic set in HH era would be an incredible wasted chance.
And that's not for HH itself. Because a new Epic full of different races and game style IF the rules are good would be a great game, offering something different from the usual skirmish or msd battle game based in infantry.
I doubt GW would Start reboot Epic with such a big investment - they will start with HH because it's cheaper to produce only "one" faction.
Yep, I hope they think along this way. Furthermore the argument of GW would infuriate xenos players by avoiding the 40K setting in Epic is not valid because Epic is so cheap in comparison to other systems that players naturally own several armies. Therefore only a minority of the player base would be adversely affected as most players would have some kind of space marines at their disposal anyway. So Epic HH could contain these factions:
- SM Legions
- Mechanicum
- Solar Auxilia
- Daemon Ruinstorm
Four factions (or maybe even five) would be a sensible approach to avoid the 40K faction bloat madness.
Johanxp wrote: Epic set in HH era would be an incredible wasted chance.
And that's not for HH itself. Because a new Epic full of different races and game style IF the rules are good would be a great game, offering something different from the usual skirmish or msd battle game based in infantry.
I doubt GW would Start reboot Epic with such a big investment - they will start with HH because it's cheaper to produce only "one" faction.
Yep, I hope they think along this way. Furthermore the argument of GW would infuriate xenos players by avoiding the 40K setting in Epic is not valid because Epic is so cheap in comparison to other systems that players naturally own several armies. Therefore only a minority of the player base would be adversely affected as most players would have some kind of space marines at their disposal anyway. So Epic HH could contain these factions:
- SM Legions
- Mechanicum
- Solar Auxilia
- Daemon Ruinstorm
Four factions (or maybe even five) would be a sensible approach to avoid the 40K faction bloat madness.
It being cheap is debatable: does anyone else remember Epic's prices back when they moved everything to Specialists Games? Because cheap they were'nt.
And don't expect it to be any cheaper than that now, if they ever actually reboot it.
Johanxp wrote: Epic set in HH era would be an incredible wasted chance.
And that's not for HH itself. Because a new Epic full of different races and game style IF the rules are good would be a great game, offering something different from the usual skirmish or msd battle game based in infantry.
I doubt GW would Start reboot Epic with such a big investment - they will start with HH because it's cheaper to produce only "one" faction.
Yep, I hope they think along this way. Furthermore the argument of GW would infuriate xenos players by avoiding the 40K setting in Epic is not valid because Epic is so cheap in comparison to other systems that players naturally own several armies. Therefore only a minority of the player base would be adversely affected as most players would have some kind of space marines at their disposal anyway. So Epic HH could contain these factions:
- SM Legions
- Mechanicum
- Solar Auxilia
- Daemon Ruinstorm
Four factions (or maybe even five) would be a sensible approach to avoid the 40K faction bloat madness.
What? "Non-imperium players shouldn't be unhappy because they can just buy Space Marines instead"?
Mentlegen324 wrote: Epic being set in the Horus Heresy seems a bit odd. I could understand it for Titanicus as the majority of Titans are Imperial or Chaos with only a few Xenos ones, but limiting Epic to that setting too would be a bigger thing that takes out a large portion of variety. Not to mention there were also rumours a while back of A Heresy BFG game.
The vast majority of people play Marines or at least Imperial armies even in the spin-off games. Setting it in the Heresy is a 'safe bet' because if the game flops they can stop supporting it and pretend it was "always our plan to support a core game of Legion vs Legion warfare", but if it's a roaring success they can expand it into other, popular Imperial armies (Gua- I mean Army, Mechanicum etc) and then see if it's still holding up in the long-long term with an eye to Xenos armies.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/07/16 12:01:58
Johanxp wrote: Epic set in HH era would be an incredible wasted chance.
And that's not for HH itself. Because a new Epic full of different races and game style IF the rules are good would be a great game, offering something different from the usual skirmish or msd battle game based in infantry.
I doubt GW would Start reboot Epic with such a big investment - they will start with HH because it's cheaper to produce only "one" faction.
Yep, I hope they think along this way. Furthermore the argument of GW would infuriate xenos players by avoiding the 40K setting in Epic is not valid because Epic is so cheap in comparison to other systems that players naturally own several armies. Therefore only a minority of the player base would be adversely affected as most players would have some kind of space marines at their disposal anyway. So Epic HH could contain these factions:
- SM Legions
- Mechanicum
- Solar Auxilia
- Daemon Ruinstorm
Four factions (or maybe even five) would be a sensible approach to avoid the 40K faction bloat madness.
What? "Non-imperium players shouldn't be unhappy because they can just buy Space Marines instead"?
At some point it becomes an increasingly thin excuse if players keep asking for it, thus showing there is actual market demand. We have seen similar things happen with SoB. GW joked and mocked the idea of plastic SoB army, until at last somebody in marketing must have noticed that if all these players keep asking for it, maybe it means they actually want to spend $ on it and that they might not be willing to spend $ on more SM. Now we have SoB as a fully fledged army.
Black Library also claimed to have a never any xenos books ever policy after no doubt getting many people inquiring. Yet now we have Necron books, Eldar books, Ork books, Tau books etc... Again I think at some point somebody finally realized they were leaving money on the table by not providing what people kept asking for.
Adeptus Titanicus players have asked for when xenos Titans will come and so far they have been ignored in favor of more and more Imperial Titans. I expect at some point they will either release xenos Titans or the same thing that happened when GW killed off Epic 40K. Players did not necessarily all migrate their spending over to 40K. Some just kept their wallets closed or walked away from GW entirely.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/16 12:46:01
tneva82 wrote: Seeing epic, at and ai are 6mm i really doubt they go for 10mm suddenly. Invalidates all at and ai models.
Wasn't there talk of AT being made in a 8mm infantry "scale"?
When AT launched in 2018, the designers said they chose the ~1/4 of 40k scale so that a marine (a very tall transhuman monster, not a regular person) would be about 8 mm tall because the details would still look nice in case they ever decided to do infantry as well. Their media team cocked up and the internet took this as "zomg 8 mm scale! All older Epic things are invalidated". The Titanicus models measure to about 1:267, which makes a normal 180 cm human about 6-7 mm tall, so the game is "6 mm scale" or "heroic 6 mm" as I like to call it. After the great flame wars over this scale, most people just refer to it as Titanicus scale now.
Surely it can't be 6mm now otherwise why would the Aeronautica Imperialis miniatures then be a noticeably different size to the previous models which were also supposedly 6mm?
To be clear, the answer is that old Epic aircraft and titans like Sherrypie said were not 6mm, they were smaller. The Titans and aircraft in AT/AI are now actually 6mm.
So if GW were to re-release Epic in a consistent 6mm scale, it would just use AT/AI titans and aircraft (which are noticeably bigger than their old-Epic counterparts), but the infantry would be about the same size as the old ones. Probably a little bigger because the typical size of a Marine has crept upwards, but not as significant a difference as the bigger stuff.
Also worth pointing out Epic never did have a set scale.
The Warlord Titan was of course first introduced in Adeptus Titanicus. Being a game of Titan vs Titan, as long as each chassis scaled well enough with the next, no harm done. But. Once it expanded into Space Marine? The infantry were about as small as they could make them, and still have each individual teensy tiny model visibly recognisable as it’s type. And so the Tanks kind of scaled with the Infantry - leaving the Titans as the odd scale, even though they arguably set a scale.
The same is true of the original 40K Rhino and Landraider. They were about as big as GW could make the die at the time. And like the Titans, being first out the gate that scale has never really changed. Though worth bearing in mind the RTB-01 Wombles are smaller than you might think if you’ve not seen or built them yourself.
Old Epic wasn't even consistent within the same kit, lol. Look at a regular Space Marine next to some of the Space Marine characters.
But yeah, AI and AT are 1/4 40k scale, if you say 40k scale is 28 to 32mm, that would mean AI and AT are 7 to 8mm scale, but we know 40k isn't self consistent either. I call AI and AT 8mm scale because I think that's most appropriate these days. If GW decide to release Epic scale infantry that fits in well with AI and AT, I can pretty much guarantee it'll be much larger than Epic infantry that came out in the late 90's.
I say the old FW Aeronautica Imperialis was 6mm scale because according to the fluff values that came in the old AI books, for those aircraft they scaled quite well to 6mm scale (roughly 1/285 scale).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/16 13:41:39
To be honest, as long as base sizes are roughly correct, I’m not fussed if someone uses old epic models.
I just want Epic back. It’s always been my favoured scale. Except Epic 40,000 which remains an uncinematic betrayal of Epic. Don’t care if it’s technically a better combat simulator. Nobody asked it to be.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: To be honest, as long as base sizes are roughly correct, I’m not fussed if someone uses old epic models.
I just want Epic back. It’s always been my favoured scale. Except Epic 40,000 which remains an uncinematic betrayal of Epic. Don’t care if it’s technically a better combat simulator. Nobody asked it to be.
It's been a while (over 20 years) since I actually built an Epic army, but isn't base size largely generally not too important? I seem to recall a thread discussing base sizes and people giving a bunch of options.
Every time I see someone post something to the effect of "non-imperium players shouldn't be unhappy because they can just buy Space Marines instead", my mind imagines them approaching a game like Flames of War or Bolt Action and going "what do you mean there are no xenos? I demand to be accommodated!".
Not everything needs to have xenos.
The "I don't play Imperium"/"I only play xenos" thing is a self-imposed rule and a self-assumed label. Theres no such thing as a "xenos player" or a "non-Imperium player", especially not for a game that doesn't presently exist. What there is, are people who prefer to play non-Imperium and xenos armies, but if you take that to an absolute and will only play non-Imperium factions, then that is wholly 100% a "you problem".
I don't play Napoleonic or Ancients armies. Know what I do when I encounter a Napoleonics or Ancients game?
I don't play.
I also don't insist that the developer needs to add Pike & Shotte armies or American Civil War armies into the game because I am a "Pike & Shotte player" or an "ACW player".
There really is no justification for the insistence that every vaguely 40k related thing needs the inclusion of xenos or whatever your favorite faction is. This isn't an expansion to 40k, this isn't something that you use your existing miniature collections for. You don't need to be catered to, you don't lose anything or miss out or get screwed over if GW produces a whole new game with a whole new miniatures range that doesn't suit your tastes or interest you. Its okay to not play all their games, its okay to not like everything they do.
Its also okay to *WISH* that your favorite faction is included in the game - but theres a fine line between wishing it to be included and acting like you are being screwed over or victimized by GW.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
That's a lot of words to say "if you don't want Space Marines don't buy it"
I dunno if anyone is going far enough to say they're acting like they're being victimised, clearly people are just wishlisting and explaining how they'd like to see it done.
Space marines as a core would be a little odd for an Epic reboot, as in at least Epic40K and EA, marines are strange extreme lists that break a lot of the core rules.
Marines in EA are my favourite game interpretation of them though, followed by new Kill Team. You could easily see a single company taken over a planet even if the match up formations seems laughable at first compare to things like the Orks or IG.
It'd be pretty cheap to upgrade my current infantry with 'truescaled' ones though, if they do go that way. The old Epic40K box marine army is just two sprues and almost 2K points if you skimp a bit on bikes and Terms/base.
Three sprues and a thunderhawk or two would put you happily in the 3K standard tournament range.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/07/16 20:33:42
