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I'm curious about the models from mk3 that are still prime legal. Will they still be produced/available?
My understanding (which could be wrong) is that anything that in NOT in prime will eventually be discontinued and phased out of production. But it will be more as moulds break etc.
However PP only has a finite capacity so I expect that as they need that production/factory space for new stuff, old things will just get dropped. I expect that while unlimited will be popular for a while, PP is going to put little to no resources into it other than initial release so expect new and prime models to just be better, thus driving any community towards buying the new hotness. Short version, if its not i prime, its not going to be supported or balanced.
So if you want to buy 3 units of Kossak Woodsmen, go ahead, just don't expect them to be relevant to PP or the game in a years time.
PP has confirmed that with the exception of Riot Quest miniatures, all Mk3 era Warmachine/Hordes minis will be discontinued, regardless of whether or not its Prime legal. PP is fully discontinuing metal, cast resin, and plastic miniatures. Riot Quest (and Warcaster) miniatures will be migrated over to 3d printed resin. None of the legacy Warmachine/Hordes miniatures are expected to make the jump, even if they were digitally sculpted.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
"After the app launches, we’ll be introducing the second Prime Legacy armies for any Factions waiting on a second army at the pace of about one army per month, with the expectation of having all Prime Legacy content updated before the end of next year."
So Legacy stuff is essentially going to be on a drip feed and not fully playable till 2024. I get the feeling this is due not just because of the large catalogue, but also to stiffle interest in Legacy. Prime will be in full swing, fully supported, and Legacy will be lacking.
This is just for Warmachine stuff, Hordes is going to be what, 3-4 years before it's Legacy catalogue is playable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/25 19:28:10
The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused.
Hordes is just Warmachine with Warlocks and Beasts now. The Hordes armies are getting Prime armies Friday alongside Warmachine. When they talk about Hordes content next year, they're referring to the two new mk4 Warlock lead armies. There are 13 promised Prime armies across the game not making the beta launch, so about 1 per month is right on track for them all by the end of 2023. I don't think the drip feed is any sort of nepharious scheme. It's pretty much what was promised up front, just with a lot less clarity on what Legacy means.
IDK what PP think they're doing, that they have enough clout to obsolete or stifle their entire existing lines and retain their player base... It's not like they're a necessary service nor are they the biggest game in town... what's making them think this will build loyalty or interest? I'd been occasionally visiting this thread because I'd kinda felt nostalgia about my old armies enough to see what's going on and maybe get back in after some years away, but I just don't see the appeal.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/25 20:13:56
It might be that after all the massive sales they did and the downplaying of the line; they might well have seen actual sales fall so low that they aren't concerned about current customers as much. At least not current customers who aren't going to jump fully into MK4 and all the changes. So they are providing some support for older fans, but the business model is 100% going to rely on those buying into the MK4 changes and updates.
It's kind of like what GW did with the shift from Old World to Age of Sigmar only not quite as bad.
I think many did feel that PP needed to revamp their lines; though doing so with such big swings is risky; especially when they are doubling down on keeping the SKU so small that they are almost pricing out newbies. Which is my big worry - those high priced boxed sets are not attractive as the only buy-in option.
Yes other firms have expensive buy in sets - Infinity, GW, Dystopian Wars, Dropzone and Dropfleet - all have expensive high priced buy in sets. However they also all back them up with much cheaper offerings. Heck about the only game that might not is Adeptus Titanicus and that's a niche game from the market leader with 35 years of marketing behind it.
Personally I'm interested as I did feel that updating older models to new designs was something on the cards, but as a Hordes Everblight player its going to be a long wait before I'll likely see anything new.
I'm surprised PP didn't do it in waves and phases, phase an army out and bring out new things for it whilst keeping others on
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/25 20:35:23
spiralingcadaver wrote: IDK what PP think they're doing, that they have enough clout to obsolete or stifle their entire existing lines and retain their player base... It's not like they're a necessary service nor are they the biggest game in town... what's making them think this will build loyalty or interest? I'd been occasionally visiting this thread because I'd kinda felt nostalgia about my old armies enough to see what's going on and maybe get back in after some years away, but I just don't see the appeal.
They're ceasing production on the existing lines because they can't support them anymore. Most of it had switched to PVC and is literally gone once its gone. Too much of the game needs to be redone from scratch so that's effectively what we're getting.
spiralingcadaver wrote: IDK what PP think they're doing, that they have enough clout to obsolete or stifle their entire existing lines and retain their player base... It's not like they're a necessary service nor are they the biggest game in town... what's making them think this will build loyalty or interest? I'd been occasionally visiting this thread because I'd kinda felt nostalgia about my old armies enough to see what's going on and maybe get back in after some years away, but I just don't see the appeal.
They're ceasing production on the existing lines because they can't support them anymore. Most of it had switched to PVC and is literally gone once its gone. Too much of the game needs to be redone from scratch so that's effectively what we're getting.
I kinda feel like that ironically works out the best in the long run because I don't think PP would have had the balls to do a big reboot (that the game needed IMO) otherwise.
They do seem to be struggling with things already which is unfortunate (but not surprising given the last few years). I think they'd have been much better served with a different roll-out though.
1) 2022 - get out rules + Step 1 (a battlebox with Caster+2 jacks/beasts) representing every "big" faction. Relatively cheap entry, lets people try out new stuff, if they get bored they can try a different faction
2) 2023 - work on getting out "step 2" of each force (the bigger $150 or whatever boxes) to flesh out armies once a month - so by next August every Army can play at 50pts or whatevs. Then spend the remainder of the year doing v2 of the rules and new Step 1/2s for new/weird factions.
3) 2024 - Now move to step 3s for the first 2/3rds the year - letting every faction now field a full 75pt force. And then start rolling out the new phase of armies/factions.
Much more interesting and broader appeal than this "we'll get 2 armies out by year's end (maybe) and everyone else can wait ages.
Also - they need to fix those new MOW sculpts - because they are ruining one of everyone's favorite designs :(
LunarSol wrote: Hordes is just Warmachine with Warlocks and Beasts now. The Hordes armies are getting Prime armies Friday alongside Warmachine. When they talk about Hordes content next year, they're referring to the two new mk4 Warlock lead armies. There are 13 promised Prime armies across the game not making the beta launch, so about 1 per month is right on track for them all by the end of 2023. I don't think the drip feed is any sort of nepharious scheme. It's pretty much what was promised up front, just with a lot less clarity on what Legacy means.
I understand that Hordes is being rolled into Warmachine and both systems will come under that name. What threw me was the time line they showed did have 'Warbeast and Warlocks joining MKIV' listed at Gencon 2023, and the recent announcement said previews of Hordes will be shown before the end of next year.
Which made me think that if they are still previewing Hordes Factions, then they must not be in the app launch, but rather added in the future.
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AduroT wrote: Their announcement was rushed and premature because they had a disgruntled playtester group breaking NDAs and leaking stuff and doom saying.
Really?
Oh wow, that is bad and sort of ruins things for the rest of us.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/10/27 07:13:34
The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused.
Which made me think that if they are still previewing Hordes Factions, then they must not be in the app launch, but rather added in the future.
Yeah, there's all sorts of oddity in the language between all these things for sure. The good news is that Hordes factions will have armies tomorrow. The Trollblood army list is easily the one I'm most excited about. It's a nearly perfect subset of my favorite Trollblood models.
AduroT wrote: Their announcement was rushed and premature because they had a disgruntled playtester group breaking NDAs and leaking stuff and doom saying.
I don't remember this leak at all. Seems to me the announcement was rushed and premature so they had something to sell at GenCon.
AduroT wrote: Their announcement was rushed and premature because they had a disgruntled playtester group breaking NDAs and leaking stuff and doom saying.
I don't remember this leak at all. Seems to me the announcement was rushed and premature so they had something to sell at GenCon.
That was my impression. The only thing I'm not sure of is whether the announcement got pushed up a bit because preview models had been sent out for the GenCon sale that were starting to leak. Depending on the circles you were in, you might know more, but my guess is they put the announcement out 3-5 days ahead of plan because it was becoming clear the NDA wouldn't hold much longer and it was better to get ahead of it.
AduroT wrote: Their announcement was rushed and premature because they had a disgruntled playtester group breaking NDAs and leaking stuff and doom saying.
I don't remember this leak at all. Seems to me the announcement was rushed and premature so they had something to sell at GenCon.
That was my impression. The only thing I'm not sure of is whether the announcement got pushed up a bit because preview models had been sent out for the GenCon sale that were starting to leak. Depending on the circles you were in, you might know more, but my guess is they put the announcement out 3-5 days ahead of plan because it was becoming clear the NDA wouldn't hold much longer and it was better to get ahead of it.
IIRC those models were across the internet literally the week before Gencon, which was several weeks after the Mark 4 announcement. Nevermind. It was the exact same day. Which is also the same day DarkLegacy showed them off on his twitch stream.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/10/27 15:36:53
Speaking of the Dark Legacy Twitch stream (Nekuralzou), we got a LOT of info from a demo of the new app.
Overall, it looks pretty clean. More colorful than the old app. I think the bit that stands out most is that it drops stats that a model has no use for now. No RAT unless you have a ranged weapon to use it. Makes for some really clean statlines on stuff like basic melee troops. Demo'd on a PC emulator though so its hard to say how it will work when its actually on my phone.
I wish I could say I was excited but I'm one of the older players who go burned in all the previous edition changes but stuck with PP till this one (just not sure if I will make the change).
I get some of the production reasons but this change really feels like it burns their most loyal players the worst. They should have at least tried to continue support forces from Mk3. I get having to drop anything plastic (thanks Chinese thieves). I just wish they could do what Wargames Atlantic is doing with moving plastic production to the US.
The News and Rumors section is all about surprises. I'd certainly hate it if we got 100 posts saying "I know something you don't know..." - malfred
legionaires wrote: I wish I could say I was excited but I'm one of the older players who go burned in all the previous edition changes but stuck with PP till this one (just not sure if I will make the change).
I get some of the production reasons but this change really feels like it burns their most loyal players the worst. They should have at least tried to continue support forces from Mk3. I get having to drop anything plastic (thanks Chinese thieves). I just wish they could do what Wargames Atlantic is doing with moving plastic production to the US.
I actually didn't start till MKIII. I knew it was around in MKI and II but the mechanics then were not to my liking. i have had a great time with MK III but then i play in a very casual friendly group that avoids many of the things people dislike about it-theme lists, steamroller etc... we also usually cap out our games at 50 points unless it is something by special request. i am quite sure i will NOT be making the change to 4th. i find the changes take away many of the things i really enjoy about the game. not to mention the stylistic change/time jump. i went out and finished acquiring all the rest of the models i needed for my MK III army. it gives me roughly 180 points in MK III to play around with so i have plenty of variety for my 50 point lists.
I also went out and PDF downloaded all the MK III cards for every army and the main rulebook so our group is set.
GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear/MCP
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
If you have an android smartphone you may have to wait about week or so it would seem.
If you have an apple smartphone, it is available on the apple app store now.
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emanuelb wrote: So is there gonna be a version for PC? Or can I download the app on my pc?
Not sure, if your pc does apps, it can be downloaded when available at whatever app store you use. If your pc doesn't do apps... not sure, but I think you may be out of luck.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/10/29 19:52:40
The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused.
I wonder what are the other armies that will be added for Prime Legacy. I understand the main factions will get a 2nd army, but what about Cygnar? Technically it already has 2 armies (incl Storm Legion), so will it get another one? And if yes, which one?
First Army is based on Trencher theme from what I see, but I wonder the other one what will it be.
I've been kind of half-heartedly following all this. My only question is how much drugs were done over at PP for them to think this was a good way to go?
I guess they were running dry with their mk3 sales and the interest in the game was rock bottom. I think this attempt at a fresh start is their hail Mary. Their limitations show at every step (dubious quality prints, absurd pricing, delays in rules delivery) but I believe their choice was between that or closing shop.
Sim-Life wrote: I've been kind of half-heartedly following all this. My only question is how much drugs were done over at PP for them to think this was a good way to go?
I haven't really been following this much. What exactly is happening that's got people so annoyed?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
5000pts 
6000pts 
3000pts
