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on another note, I can't help but think that giving nurgle deamons back their 5+ fnp would instantly make them playable again.

Slaanesh would also be playable with advance and charge.

Mad_Proctologist wrote:
on another note, I can't help but think that giving nurgle deamons back their 5+ fnp would instantly make them playable again.

You really think Beasts of Nurgle need a 5+ FNP?

Daemonettes, pinks, fiends, beasts, cannons, chariots, and even hounds have been showing up in recent top 4 placings. Unfortunately every single one of those lists is propped up by 15-18 flamers. Not sure how viable any of that stuff will be after the flamer nerf.

 Valkyrie wrote:

Mad_Proctologist wrote:
on another note, I can't help but think that giving nurgle deamons back their 5+ fnp would instantly make them playable again.

You really think Beasts of Nurgle need a 5+ FNP?

Sure, just nerf their regeneration a bit. Make it so they only regenerate X number of wounds a turn rather than full wounds, still tanky as hell, still not exactly dangerous and gives the other nurgle units that DON'T have such awesome abilities something to make them actually worth taking.

 Valkyrie wrote:

Mad_Proctologist wrote:
on another note, I can't help but think that giving nurgle deamons back their 5+ fnp would instantly make them playable again.

You really think Beasts of Nurgle need a 5+ FNP?

Yes. what's the worst that could happen? Many things that are going to be able to kill it in one round of damage will be able to cross that hurdle, they're not obsec, and they're not exactly tearing up the board at 80 points each. Make them tough enough to be worth the points.
You can literally buy 3 flamers for the cost of one beast. and maybe flamers are not a fair metric for the rest of the army but if nurgle is going to be the durability/attrition choice it needs to do it well. in the state of 40k right now I'd argue that yes they need that fnp to do what they are trying to achieve.

artific3r wrote:
Daemonettes, pinks, fiends, beasts, cannons, chariots, and even hounds have been showing up in recent top 4 placings. Unfortunately every single one of those lists is propped up by 15-18 flamers. Not sure how viable any of that stuff will be after the flamer nerf.

It doesnt really matter what else is there when the flamers do all the work.

 p5freak wrote:

artific3r wrote:
Daemonettes, pinks, fiends, beasts, cannons, chariots, and even hounds have been showing up in recent top 4 placings. Unfortunately every single one of those lists is propped up by 15-18 flamers. Not sure how viable any of that stuff will be after the flamer nerf.

It doesnt really matter what else is there when the flamers do all the work.

Assuming that Flamers won't always be in the spot they are (Chapter Approved changing points, for example), it is a good indication as to what those players consider to be the best options in the codex. It's certainly worth keeping in the back of your mind for when Flamers are no longer as efficient as they currently are.

Points will also change for other units, and a new meta will evolve.

 p5freak wrote:

artific3r wrote:
Daemonettes, pinks, fiends, beasts, cannons, chariots, and even hounds have been showing up in recent top 4 placings. Unfortunately every single one of those lists is propped up by 15-18 flamers. Not sure how viable any of that stuff will be after the flamer nerf.

It doesnt really matter what else is there when the flamers do all the work.

It really does feel like all of those other units are just bodies on the table with slightly different movement and defense profiles for the purpose of holding the board. Any offensive power they bring is purely incidental

Mad_Proctologist wrote:
on another note, I can't help but think that giving nurgle deamons back their 5+ fnp would instantly make them playable again.

theyre priced as if they had it, it got stripped from the playtest version of the dex with no pts change

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Mad_Proctologist wrote:
on another note, I can't help but think that giving nurgle deamons back their 5+ fnp would instantly make them playable again.

theyre priced as if they had it, it got stripped from the playtest version of the dex with no pts change

It really does feel like they just ripped something off of Nurgle then just threw them out.

I can not believe that GW still believes that a high toughness means anything significant in this edition. T5 orks means nothing and neither does T5 Plaguebearers. Nurgle has no strengths and they suffer so badly for it, I just hate that it is either going to take a new codex or a stupid supplement to bring them up to par.

After looking at the Crusade rules in the book I feel like they just ripped all of the special rules out and gave them to Crusade. Things that should just be a part of the army as core functionality are sitting in limbo in Crusade.

Thoughts on best way to make use of chariot from start collecting Slaanesh? Seems you get more bang for buck running regular chariots over exalted, and probably the hellflayer over regular seeker. Switching one to a tormenter on hellflayer is pretty easy too. Thoughts?

why would anyone play seeker chariots of any kind ? They have huge bases, cant fly, only have S4 attacks. Sure you can spam them, they are cheap, but they need huge spaces, and will block each other.

 p5freak wrote:
why would anyone play seeker chariots of any kind ? They have huge bases, cant fly, only have S4 attacks. Sure you can spam them, they are cheap, but they need huge spaces, and will block each other.

Honestly, because they come in the set and I’m not planning on spending a ton of money on this daemon army. Sure I can leave them off, but that means further purchases to offset. Not end of the world but not ideal.

 bullyboy wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
why would anyone play seeker chariots of any kind ? They have huge bases, cant fly, only have S4 attacks. Sure you can spam them, they are cheap, but they need huge spaces, and will block each other.

Honestly, because they come in the set and I’m not planning on spending a ton of money on this daemon army. Sure I can leave them off, but that means further purchases to offset. Not end of the world but not ideal.

I think you are better off going with regular seeker chariots over the hellflayers due to the potential mortal wounds. 1 MW on 5+ on 4 dice seems a bit better to me than 6 S6 AP -2 D2 attacks on the charge. With the prevalence of AoC AP -2 just doesn't cut it and on top of that there is a decent chance you will run into -1D abilities. The best utility you can get from chariots is table control/denial, for their points there are decently resilient and can get anywhere you need to be.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
why would anyone play seeker chariots of any kind ? They have huge bases, cant fly, only have S4 attacks. Sure you can spam them, they are cheap, but they need huge spaces, and will block each other.

Honestly, because they come in the set and I’m not planning on spending a ton of money on this daemon army. Sure I can leave them off, but that means further purchases to offset. Not end of the world but not ideal.

I think you are better off going with regular seeker chariots over the hellflayers due to the potential mortal wounds. 1 MW on 5+ on 4 dice seems a bit better to me than 6 S6 AP -2 D2 attacks on the charge. With the prevalence of AoC AP -2 just doesn't cut it and on top of that there is a decent chance you will run into -1D abilities. The best utility you can get from chariots is table control/denial, for their points there are decently resilient and can get anywhere you need to be.

The bladed axle is Malefic so I’m pretty sure it will ignore AOC and damage reduction abilities. Or am I wrong on that subject?

 bullyboy wrote:


The bladed axle is Malefic so I’m pretty sure it will ignore AOC and damage reduction abilities. Or am I wrong on that subject?

you are correct, malefic ignores AoC

 p5freak wrote:
why would anyone play seeker chariots of any kind ? They have huge bases, cant fly, only have S4 attacks. Sure you can spam them, they are cheap, but they need huge spaces, and will block each other.

i'd play them BECAUSE they have huge bases and are super fast and cheap, i'd probably run 2-3 easily tbh.

Problem is that i don't own the models and GW's slaanesh doesnt really do it for me (apart from characters) and every alternative seems to skip on making chariots

Chariots as objective holders is an idea I hadn't considered... I mean, the temptation is to go, "Daemon tank rushes forward, crush kill destroy!" Only, they're not particularly good at that...

Next time I play Slaanesh, I think I'll try using the exalted chariot(s) as objective holders and/or distraction carnifexes, rather than trying to kill gak with them.

I'm with Bullyboy. I have them because of the starter boxes, so I may as well use them. I mean, $230 Australian is a lot of money for the obvious replacement in the list (Keepers).

sorry, random rules question:

the King of Blades relic has the ability "Each time the bearer makes a melee attack with that weapon, you can ignore any or all modifiers to that attack’s hit roll and any or all modifiers to that attack’s wound roll."

does that affect transhuman-like "always fails on a X" abilities?

No. Modifiers are the ones that give you +-X.

Haven't have that rule actually kick up yet. The dam boost has been good enough though with axe of khorne though.

tneva82 wrote:
No. Modifiers are the ones that give you +-X.

Haven't have that rule actually kick up yet. The dam boost has been good enough though with axe of khorne though.

yhea, figured as much, and one of the local players has a death wing army, so i thought i'd double check before i ran into permenant transhuman. thanks.

ok, so, list writing question:

I have about 1200-1300 points of khronate deamons, consisting of:

bloodthirster
bloodmaster
3 squads of bloodletters
3 'crushers
10 hounds.

what would be the best way to expand this towards 2,000 points? I feel like I have enough infantry for now, but not really sure how to expand form here.

xerxeskingofking wrote:
ok, so, list writing question:

I have about 1200-1300 points of khronate deamons, consisting of:

bloodthirster
bloodmaster
3 squads of bloodletters
3 'crushers
10 hounds.

what would be the best way to expand this towards 2,000 points? I feel like I have enough infantry for now, but not really sure how to expand form here.

2 more Bloodthirsters.

You should also invest in a couple of Skull Cannon.
Seriously. Sometimes even the forces of Khorne find it usefull to shoot something....

Belakor.

xerxeskingofking wrote:
ok, so, list writing question:

I have about 1200-1300 points of khronate deamons, consisting of:

bloodthirster
bloodmaster
3 squads of bloodletters
3 'crushers
10 hounds.

what would be the best way to expand this towards 2,000 points? I feel like I have enough infantry for now, but not really sure how to expand form here.

Skarbrand and skull cannon or two would be my go two additions.

What are people's thoughts on Bloodthirsters? Bought Kaband'ha for cheap as I'm not a fan of the derpy-looking plastic one, but as for loadout I'm thiking Axe and Bloodflail as the damage spillover is rather nice.

 Valkyrie wrote:
What are people's thoughts on Bloodthirsters? Bought Kaband'ha for cheap as I'm not a fan of the derpy-looking plastic one, but as for loadout I'm thiking Axe and Bloodflail as the damage spillover is rather nice.

Current top build for Bloodthirsters is Big Axe, King of Blades Relic, 5+++ FNP and The woundgate. This is featured in a ton of top performing lists.


On the other topic, from the Metawatch article I am curious how GW is going to handle Daemons. They already said they are pretty much going to bump the points for flamers, but that feels like it's going to just break the back of the whole army. They'll need to make some price adjustments elsewhere, and I am hoping they realize that.

Flamers going up by 10 points, and everything else staying the same, is not going to break the army. If they reduce other units points people might still be able to take as many flamers as before. Troop choices are overpriced by 10-20 points, plaguebearers and daemonettes for 150 and 130 is insane, those should be -20.