Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Herzlos wrote:
A point that I think has been missed is that it's allegedly an *average* increase of 5.8%, so some items could realistically be 10-15% higher if others are lower.

We also don't know how the average was determined - number of SKUs or price?

But I haven't seen a breakdown of the pricing changes yet, has anyone seen any more details?

I haven't seen anyone provide any, I dare say retailers won't know for certain until a week or two before it kicks in, so maybe next week?

Tyel wrote:
Does anyone buy direct from GW any more?

It just seems to me that more or less the day I realised I could get stuff 20-25% cheaper, any direct purchases ceased. Its a massive discount.

GW could try and fight this (i.e. spend £100, get 10% off or something) - but to my knowledge they never have.

If the stores cut the discount by 5%, I'm still going to buy from them over GW.

Same here, although if the discounts went down too far I'd call it a day with GW altogether.

Herzlos wrote:
A point that I think has been missed is that it's allegedly an *average* increase of 5.8%, so some items could realistically be 10-15% higher if others are lower.

We also don't know how the average was determined - number of SKUs or price?

But I haven't seen a breakdown of the pricing changes yet, has anyone seen any more details?

What's still ambiguous is if the increase is based a percentage of the RRP or cost price. I first assumed the former but reading again it seems more like the latter, which would be closer to 3% of RRP. That would make huge increases less likely.

Tyel wrote:
Does anyone buy direct from GW any more?

It just seems to me that more or less the day I realised I could get stuff 20-25% cheaper, any direct purchases ceased. Its a massive discount.

GW could try and fight this (i.e. spend £100, get 10% off or something) - but to my knowledge they never have.

If the stores cut the discount by 5%, I'm still going to buy from them over GW.

I do but it’s only if I can’t find it at my LGS. Canada doesn’t seem to have many discounts for retail, and Amazon up here is, in general, as or more expensive than my LGS.
So I usually support them instead. But I don’t buy much in the way of GW. Just the occasional figure, Underworlds box or warband.
I have found one retailer in Ontario that has stuff at a discount, but it’s not much. I’m not the target demographic for GW though - I don’t buy or paint much GW and spend maybe $100 a year on their products.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Simple maths says that increasing your profitability allows for loss of sales (by a surprising margin - there's a simple equation but I'm a mathidiot so ill have to look it up).

Loss of sales is near total. You retain some loyal customers out of habit and you retain any walk in customer if you have a brick and mortar store. However nearly all online sales go to the storefront that has the lowest price after P&P.

Of course. For those online retailers.

In general there are ways of sustaining profitability - thinking of GW product in this instance - for B&M locations who are not reliant on shifting piles of stock.

Its very tough at the moment. 5%+ on top of other rising costs maybe the straw that broke the camels back.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

charles_the_dead_lizzard wrote:
Our local game club has rooms in our LGS. While the club pays some money for rent, we are still dependent on the existence of the store for the club to exist, mostly because rent is so high in german cities that it is barely affordable to get club space rented anywhere else. Since Corona many customers stayed away, people got used to buy stuff online because the shops were closed for a long time. GW lowering the profit on boxes for retail makes this situation even worse. Current inflation is just adding up to the issue.

So yeah, this new money grab by GW hits my mood hard.

Discounters have lowered the profit expectation for independent sector for the last decade or so.

GW CAN and SHOULD be offering more in the way of marketing and support for B&M stores with gaming space.

Can you clarify something for me?

You seem to be against online retailers or discount online retailers. May I ask why?

Tyel wrote:
Does anyone buy direct from GW any more?

Mostly just Direct Order stuff that our FLGS refuses to bother with.

 McDougall Designs wrote:
You seem to be against online retailers or discount online retailers. May I ask why?

Probably because they're parasites on the hobby. They use the fact that they have none of the expenses of a real store to sell just barely above GW's price, which means that anyone with an offline store has to either sell GW stuff at a loss or rely on charity donations from people who feel guilty about using the gaming space without buying anything. And those stores are vital to the long-term success of the hobby. If they stop supporting GW games it will be catastrophic for the community and GW's own stores are not even remotely close to being able to make up for the loss. The online discounters, on the other hand, offer absolutely nothing of value to the community. They can only take advantage of the work real stores have done to build a market and try to extract as much personal profit as possible before destroying it.

That's certainly A take, I guess.

Tyel wrote:
Does anyone buy direct from GW any more?

It just seems to me that more or less the day I realised I could get stuff 20-25% cheaper, any direct purchases ceased. Its a massive discount.

GW could try and fight this (i.e. spend £100, get 10% off or something) - but to my knowledge they never have.

If the stores cut the discount by 5%, I'm still going to buy from them over GW.

I used to visit the local Battle Bunker, even when US discounts were 20-25%, because it was such a welcoming, dreamland of a store. I stopped visiting after they sold off 3/4 of the bunker and turned it into a Battle Closet, and replaced all the staff with one new guy. There’s no reason to go there or buy direct any more.


(Although I haven’t bought new GW minis in years, and even second-hand purchases/trades are few and far between. I’m a former whale, and now I don’t even care about (or hate) GW enough to troll most threads. Price threads that can affect the shops I do care about and prices of ranges I still buy will draw me out still.)

well, than GW should have a larger margin for those stores so they don't make a loss while being a key stone to the GW hobby, and not reducing it

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:
If they stop supporting GW games it will be catastrophic for the community

not sure if it will be a problem for "the" community
"everyone" is 3D printing models and pirating rules anyway, while the store sells the GW stuff on a loss
so not carrying those won't have a big change anyway other than not making a loss by selling it and instead of stocking GW, going with 3D printing supplies and other games would keep "the" community alive

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

 McDougall Designs wrote:
You seem to be against online retailers or discount online retailers. May I ask why?

Probably because they're parasites on the hobby. They use the fact that they have none of the expenses of a real store to sell just barely above GW's price, which means that anyone with an offline store has to either sell GW stuff at a loss or rely on charity donations from people who feel guilty about using the gaming space without buying anything. And those stores are vital to the long-term success of the hobby. If they stop supporting GW games it will be catastrophic for the community and GW's own stores are not even remotely close to being able to make up for the loss. The online discounters, on the other hand, offer absolutely nothing of value to the community. They can only take advantage of the work real stores have done to build a market and try to extract as much personal profit as possible before destroying it.

They offer access and affordability.

Where do you live that the store has everything you want to buy? The second I have to order something, be it at the store or online, I will choose the online option that is cheaper and directly delivers to me.
Additionally, there is no store in my area where you can play. The local club is renting space somewhere else and the members pay for it. And most of the time I play at my home, anyway.
So online stores aren't the leches declared above in my area.

What a bizarre hot take.

Tyel wrote:
Does anyone buy direct from GW any more?

It just seems to me that more or less the day I realised I could get stuff 20-25% cheaper, any direct purchases ceased. Its a massive discount.

GW could try and fight this (i.e. spend £100, get 10% off or something) - but to my knowledge they never have.

If the stores cut the discount by 5%, I'm still going to buy from them over GW.

I buy from GW direct as well. Often they're the only place I can get certain miniatures, whether because they're direct buy, or they're older or Specialist stuff that stores don't carry. I also don't have any stores within 45 minutes in any direction that carry any kind of stock I'm looking for.

I also think what is being missed here is that in the UK, you (meaning general you, not you you) get the lowest starting RRP for GW models. Then, you can get 20-25% off of the model, and reasonable or free shipping from discounters. In the US, we pay $1.5/$1.6x the GBP price, which is way higher than the exchange rate (and heaven help the Aussies), usually only manage a 15% discount, if you're lucky, then pay State Sales tax on top (and keep in mind, that starting UK price also includes VAT, its not like GW is selling the models to stores in the US sans the VAT). Plus then I'm usually paying shipping on the item, which removes the savings of the discount, unless I'm buying $100 or $200 at one go, which I never do.

So, I can get that one model from GW, full price, with free shipping? I'll go that route.

I've also mostly moved on from GW unless its the odd model to play non-GW games with, or complete a collection, or to paint. And independents rarely sell the stuff I'm looking for - Artizan, Copplestone, Crusader, Perry metals, Bombshell, etc., so I HAVE to use online vendors or direct, since the stores that do carry them are several states away.

*edit: and oh, yeah, I don't game in stores, so that is zero value add for me. I game at home or at a friend's home. Many stores I've visited have the "pay to play" model, and I'm not doing that, period.

Brickfix wrote:
The second I have to order something, be it at the store or online, I will choose the online option that is cheaper and directly delivers to me.

I buy a lot of my stuff off of Amazon. I will pay a little more to one of the Amazon third party sellers that has a better rating and one that I've had a good experience with (and if they have an option for shipping by Amazon or by the retailer, I always choose the retailer).

Brickfix wrote:
Where do you live that the store has everything you want to buy? The second I have to order something, be it at the store or online, I will choose the online option that is cheaper and directly delivers to me.
Additionally, there is no store in my area where you can play. The local club is renting space somewhere else and the members pay for it. And most of the time I play at my home, anyway.
So online stores aren't the leches declared above in my area.

What a bizarre hot take.

Some of the online retailers also carry used items, and that's the only way I buy GW stuff these days. I'll do a search, see what's out there, and then see if I can find a vendor who has a selection of things that interest me so I can save on shipping. Often this goes outside the GW realm, so I might combine some broken Chaos bikes (I love broken models, such a great value!) and an OOP board game.

BTW, I'm old enough to remember life before online sales of any sort. Gaming sellers typically featured monochrome catalogs with order forms and only took money orders as payment.

I also recall how very reluctantly GW was to embrace the internet in the first place. They had those catalog forms in WD for years after people were buying online.

Tyel wrote:
Does anyone buy direct from GW any more?

Yes.

Why do I??
Sometimes GW has something I want that doesn't ship to my FLGS. Like made to order items. Or FW.
Sometimes I want something & they're the last place that has any.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

 McDougall Designs wrote:
You seem to be against online retailers or discount online retailers. May I ask why?

Probably because they're parasites on the hobby. They use the fact that they have none of the expenses of a real store to sell just barely above GW's price, which means that anyone with an offline store has to either sell GW stuff at a loss or rely on charity donations from people who feel guilty about using the gaming space without buying anything. And those stores are vital to the long-term success of the hobby. If they stop supporting GW games it will be catastrophic for the community and GW's own stores are not even remotely close to being able to make up for the loss. The online discounters, on the other hand, offer absolutely nothing of value to the community. They can only take advantage of the work real stores have done to build a market and try to extract as much personal profit as possible before destroying it.

They offer access and affordability.

What access? You can buy everything direct from GW and the discount store doesn't offer you access to a place to play or a community to play with. And that 20% discount is never going to be the difference between being able to afford something or not.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

 McDougall Designs wrote:
You seem to be against online retailers or discount online retailers. May I ask why?

Probably because they're parasites on the hobby. They use the fact that they have none of the expenses of a real store to sell just barely above GW's price, which means that anyone with an offline store has to either sell GW stuff at a loss or rely on charity donations from people who feel guilty about using the gaming space without buying anything. And those stores are vital to the long-term success of the hobby. If they stop supporting GW games it will be catastrophic for the community and GW's own stores are not even remotely close to being able to make up for the loss. The online discounters, on the other hand, offer absolutely nothing of value to the community. They can only take advantage of the work real stores have done to build a market and try to extract as much personal profit as possible before destroying it.

They offer access and affordability.

What access? You can buy everything direct from GW and the discount store doesn't offer you access to a place to play or a community to play with. And that 20% discount is never going to be the difference between being able to afford something or not.

If you buy from GW directly how is that supporting the place you play at or the community you play with? It's no different? And yes, 20% off does make things more affordable, very obviously.

Dudeface wrote:
If you buy from GW directly how is that supporting the place you play at or the community you play with? It's no different?

It's not different, but that's not the point. A real store adds accessibility vs. buying direct from GW's online store because it lets you buy stuff for immediate pickup and gives you a place to play the game. An online discount store has no accessibility advantage over buying direct from GW. One is adding value, the other is just a parasite on the hobby.

And yes, 20% off does make things more affordable, very obviously.

Not really. If you can't afford a thing at full MSRP you can't afford it at a mere 20% discount. You might like the cheaper prices but it doesn't make a practical difference in whether or not you can afford the game.

I'm 12, I got a $50 gift voucher for my birthday. If the voucher is valid at a store that offers 20% off RRP Vs one that doesn't, which store would l allow me to afford the $60 RRP kit I want in?

Your point hinges on a spectacular lack of vision relative to the many different factors that could inform a customer's ability or desire to buy an item, not least if which whether they are even interested in collecting an army.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
If you buy from GW directly how is that supporting the place you play at or the community you play with? It's no different?

It's not different, but that's not the point. A real store adds accessibility vs. buying direct from GW's online store because it lets you buy stuff for immediate pickup and gives you a place to play the game. An online discount store has no accessibility advantage over buying direct from GW. One is adding value, the other is just a parasite on the hobby.

And yes, 20% off does make things more affordable, very obviously.

Not really. If you can't afford a thing at full MSRP you can't afford it at a mere 20% discount. You might like the cheaper prices but it doesn't make a practical difference in whether or not you can afford the game.

So if I don't have a LGS or a GW store in town, why should I pay more to order from GW? The places I usually order from online have multiple physical locations that provide gaming, GWs own trade discount is structured to provide bigger discounts to stores who have gaming areas iirc.

If I wasn't buying some of the stuff at 25-20% I wouldn't be buying it. Or it'd be 2nd hand repair jobs, which also wouldn't benefit my lgs.

I'm sorry but you're talking out your ass on all accounts.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:


Not really. If you can't afford a thing at full MSRP you can't afford it at a mere 20% discount. You might like the cheaper prices but it doesn't make a practical difference in whether or not you can afford the game.

You might have unlimited cash. Don't make assumption everybody else has same benefit.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
If you buy from GW directly how is that supporting the place you play at or the community you play with? It's no different?

It's not different, but that's not the point. A real store adds accessibility vs. buying direct from GW's online store because it lets you buy stuff for immediate pickup and gives you a place to play the game. An online discount store has no accessibility advantage over buying direct from GW. One is adding value, the other is just a parasite on the hobby.

And yes, 20% off does make things more affordable, very obviously.

Not really. If you can't afford a thing at full MSRP you can't afford it at a mere 20% discount. You might like the cheaper prices but it doesn't make a practical difference in whether or not you can afford the game.

Sometimes I will look at a GW price and its just too high for what I perceive the value is for the item. A 20-25% discount on it move it back in to the "expensive but tolerable range. So If that online discounter didnt exist, I would not buy the item at all.

And online discounters will sometimes break up sets... So if I only want one faction out of a boxed set, Likely I would not buy the whole set if that is the case... So the online discounter is the only reason/way I can get it in the first place.

And in that line of thought, I have had catastrophic failures on minis or lost 1 of a unit... and am able to buy single figures (or in the case of non GW single sprues) and replace that one I am missing without having to buy the whole set all over again.

I also set myself a monthly budget. I have a separate bank account and direct deposit a certain amount per paycheck for hobby funds. While i certainly could go over this, I wont. And the 20% - 25% definitely helps stay in that budget and keeps the wife happy as well.

There are plenty of things I've looked at and gone "Man, I sure would love a set of those. But that price is insane!", and then suddenly a store does a 30% off "clearance" and that item is back on the menu.

That's what happened with the Slaangors I bought. For what you get they were too expensive, and suddenly they were slightly more than 30% off. I bought two boxes.

But no, the store's a "parasite"...

Dudeface wrote:
So if I don't have a LGS or a GW store in town, why should I pay more to order from GW? The places I usually order from online have multiple physical locations that provide gaming, GWs own trade discount is structured to provide bigger discounts to stores who have gaming areas iirc.

You're still missing the point. It's not about whether an individual makes a choice to buy from GW direct vs. a discount store, it's about what the discount store adds to the hobby. When GW's online store exists and allows you to buy anything you want with a few clicks adding a different online store selling the same items provides no accessibility that wasn't already there.

If I wasn't buying some of the stuff at 25-20% I wouldn't be buying it. Or it'd be 2nd hand repair jobs, which also wouldn't benefit my lgs.

Your personal opinion on whether you like a price =/= affordability.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:


Not really. If you can't afford a thing at full MSRP you can't afford it at a mere 20% discount. You might like the cheaper prices but it doesn't make a practical difference in whether or not you can afford the game.

You might have unlimited cash. Don't make assumption everybody else has same benefit.

If you can afford something at 80% of MSRP you can afford it at 100% of MSRP by saving up for a bit longer.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
So if I don't have a LGS or a GW store in town, why should I pay more to order from GW? The places I usually order from online have multiple physical locations that provide gaming, GWs own trade discount is structured to provide bigger discounts to stores who have gaming areas iirc.

You're still missing the point. It's not about whether an individual makes a choice to buy from GW direct vs. a discount store, it's about what the discount store adds to the hobby. When GW's online store exists and allows you to buy anything you want with a few clicks adding a different online store selling the same items provides no accessibility that wasn't already there.

The discount store allows you to buy the same product at a reduced price compared to the online GW store. Both stores online require the same number of clicks (broadly speaking) and the same personal information and details from you. So if the discount store offers a better price, then the attraction is that you can buy things at that reduced price. So that means you might get more things for the same amount of money; or get the same number of things you were going to get anyway for less cost leaving you more money in your pocket for other things.


If a 3rd party store offers no price difference to the GW store then the attractions might be stocking levels or local play/promotional elements.


However if the online 3rd party store offers no discount; offers the buyer no playspace or physical benefits in their area and the GW store has stuff in stock then it doesn't matter which the customer chooses to buy from.

 Overread wrote:
The discount store allows you to buy the same product at a reduced price compared to the online GW store. Both stores online require the same number of clicks (broadly speaking) and the same personal information and details from you. So if the discount store offers a better price, then the attraction is that you can buy things at that reduced price. So that means you might get more things for the same amount of money; or get the same number of things you were going to get anyway for less cost leaving you more money in your pocket for other things.

That's a reason to buy from the discount store but it's not accessibility.

An accessibility advantage would be if, say, GW did not ship to a particular country but the discount store did. Then the discount store would be offering something that doesn't already exist and adding value to the hobby. But as it is this is not the case in any major market and the comment about discount stores being parasites stands.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
So, many retailers offer free shipping over £75ish in the UK, with wayland off the top of my head offering free over £20, though they do have a mostly lower discount rate than most. I assume wayland may raise their minimum order for shipping.

However if prices do come closer to RRP of GW, I wonder how many people will actually switch to doing small orders with GW (as opposed to having to buy more products to hit the free shipping totals with third parties).

So if Wayland raise their free shipping, to say £35-40. Could people buy more direct from GW for say, a paint order, or just one box. GW is free shipping over £20.

I would guess GW may raise their free shipping charge as well, with their costs going up, having to pay labour on packing, shipping cost in general, utility costs, website maintenance, business processes costs etc. It may not actually make them that much more money in the end, as if consumers go away from FLGS's and online FLGS's, and switch to consuming via GW direct, the logistics and costs that could involve could mean any increase in profit is negligible.

GW already have doubled their free shipping limit to £40 €50 they quietly put it up from the 23rd.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Delivery?_requestid=13264554

EDIT sorry missed the previous post on the increase

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

 Overread wrote:
The discount store allows you to buy the same product at a reduced price compared to the online GW store. Both stores online require the same number of clicks (broadly speaking) and the same personal information and details from you. So if the discount store offers a better price, then the attraction is that you can buy things at that reduced price. So that means you might get more things for the same amount of money; or get the same number of things you were going to get anyway for less cost leaving you more money in your pocket for other things.

That's a reason to buy from the discount store but it's not accessibility.

An accessibility advantage would be if, say, GW did not ship to a particular country but the discount store did. Then the discount store would be offering something that doesn't already exist and adding value to the hobby. But as it is this is not the case in any major market and the comment about discount stores being parasites stands.

Thing is almost every wargame discount store I know of provides gaming space and tables. Places like Wayland and Firestorm games are pretty huge by wargame standards in the UK. They also have physical shops which can be huge for local recruitment of new gamers and support, which can then directly support local player groups even if the shop hasn't got their own playspace.

It's the same reason GW has highstreet stores and doesn't just shut them all down and trade online only.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
If you buy from GW directly how is that supporting the place you play at or the community you play with? It's no different?

It's not different, but that's not the point. A real store adds accessibility vs. buying direct from GW's online store because it lets you buy stuff for immediate pickup and gives you a place to play the game. An online discount store has no accessibility advantage over buying direct from GW. One is adding value, the other is just a parasite on the hobby.

And yes, 20% off does make things more affordable, very obviously.

Not really. If you can't afford a thing at full MSRP you can't afford it at a mere 20% discount. You might like the cheaper prices but it doesn't make a practical difference in whether or not you can afford the game.

You just don't get tired of being wrong, do you?