Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

They haven't "doubled" the shipping limit, they just stopped doing the lowered Covid limits.

 Overread wrote:
Thing is almost every wargame discount store I know of provides gaming space and tables. Places like Wayland and Firestorm games are pretty huge by wargame standards in the UK. They also have physical shops which can be huge for local recruitment of new gamers and support, which can then directly support local player groups even if the shop hasn't got their own playspace.

It's the same reason GW has highstreet stores and doesn't just shut them all down and trade online only.

Do they? Maybe this is a UK thing because in the US when people talk about online discount stores it's purely an online store they'll never visit in person. Maybe the discount store's warehouse has a cash register so they technically count as a physical store for GW's TOS but the vast majority of their business is online-only.

In any case, if the online discount store is genuinely running a real store as a significant percentage of their business and supporting an offline community then that store wouldn't be a parasite on the hobby.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:
You just don't get tired of being wrong, do you?

Do you want to offer anything constructive here or just rude and condescending spam?

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Thing is almost every wargame discount store I know of provides gaming space and tables. Places like Wayland and Firestorm games are pretty huge by wargame standards in the UK. They also have physical shops which can be huge for local recruitment of new gamers and support, which can then directly support local player groups even if the shop hasn't got their own playspace.

It's the same reason GW has highstreet stores and doesn't just shut them all down and trade online only.

Do they? Maybe this is a UK thing because in the US when people talk about online discount stores it's purely an online store they'll never visit in person. Maybe the discount store's warehouse has a cash register so they technically count as a physical store for GW's TOS but the vast majority of their business is online-only.

In any case, if the online discount store is genuinely running a real store as a significant percentage of their business and supporting an offline community then that store wouldn't be a parasite on the hobby.

Pretty sure it's an American thing, here in Australia our online stores have actual physical locations with gaming areas even if it's just in the warehouse.

 Rolsheen wrote:


Pretty sure it's an American thing, here in Australia our online stores have actual physical locations with gaming areas even if it's just in the warehouse.

Same in the UK, most major 3rd party websites double up as physical stores and many have gaming areas too.

It depends. Miniature Market and Games N Stuff here in the states have physical locations. Living in Maryland I have never been to Miniature Market's storefront but have been to Games N Stuff's as its only about an hour away. I used to have 2 GW's near me, but both closed. There are 2 games stores within 20 minutes of me. Both have areas for in shop play. I have purchased from both, but dont play in store and the one that is closest to me fumbled both times I tried to preorder somthing through them.

 Smokestack wrote:
It depends. Miniature Market and Games N Stuff here in the states have physical locations. Living in Maryland I have never been to Miniature Market's storefront but have been to Games N Stuff's as its only about an hour away. I used to have 2 GW's near me, but both closed. There are 2 games stores within 20 minutes of me. Both have areas for in shop play. I have purchased from both, but dont play in store and the one that is closest to me fumbled both times I tried to preorder somthing through them.

Miniature Market has 2 brick and mortar stores now, plenty of play area too. Played a board game at one location today with some friends, they usually have events and tournaments every weekend.

My two bits, from being a so-called parasite:

I offer accessibility to ranges that your FLGS may not carry. Fireforge, mantic, etc. I offer all of my items at some form of discount. And you can get everything you want from different manufacturers all in one cart and one charge on your payment option of choice. If you email me, I'll even work with you on special arrangements because I can offer that.

I eventually intend to open a brick and mortar location with table space. As of this moment, that is financially unfeasible. So I opened an online shop, to still fulfill my intended goals of selling miniatures and hobby supplies at affordable rates.

I have been denied trade accounts because I do not have a brick and mortar location. I have been unable to pick up Vallejo paints to sell because I do not have a brick and mortar location. GW flat out won't return my emails because I do not pay rent on a building or lease a space.

I still want to sell model kits. I want to sell them at a discount, because as a hobbyist myself I've become accustomed to purchasing from discount retailers in order to make my poor-mans hobby dollar stretch a little further.

Should I be denied business accounts, simply because I have been unable to raise capital needed for a building/rent? Maybe, but I think that, and calling how I make my money a parasitic leech on the hobby, is a bit of a stretch.

You're turning a profit and not hosting a game club with 10 to 20 game tables for the community? Straight to jail.

Not giving GW full price in crisp new bills, plus a big tip on top because you're so grateful they manage to somehow keep a small and faithful community going based purely on their goodwill? Jail.

Selling discounted items to people in towns with gaming groups but no market big enough to bear a brick and mortar store? You'd better believe it, jail.

What a weird corporate bootlick opinion.

 McDougall Designs wrote:
I offer accessibility to ranges that your FLGS may not carry.

But do you offer access to ranges I can't buy direct from their respective manufacturers?

Either way that's still kind of off-topic for a discussion of GW sales. Maybe some obscure minor product lines have accessibility issues where even discount sellers with no retail store can add genuine value but that's certainly not the case with GW products.

I want to sell them at a discount, because as a hobbyist myself I've become accustomed to purchasing from discount retailers in order to make my poor-mans hobby dollar stretch a little further.

So you're in "business" to act as a charity? Is this intended to be your primary job or just a side thing to keep you busy on weekends?

Should I be denied business accounts, simply because I have been unable to raise capital needed for a building/rent?

Yes. Physical retail stores are vital for the long-term health of both GW and the hobby as a whole. Requiring a physical location is important protection against online sellers undercutting the real stores and driving them out of business (or at least getting them to stop carrying GW products).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RustyNumber wrote:
What a weird corporate bootlick opinion.

You do understand that these policies are for the benefit of the community as a whole, right? And that they favor small independent stores over parasitic online sellers that will gladly kill a game if it means 5% more profit this quarter?

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:
Yes.

Keep digging...

I'm amazed you people are still entertaining this absolutely trash opinion that's yet to adequately explain how discounts are parasitical to the community at large or why their personal bugbear bears any importance or adds anything to the community.

 Platuan4th wrote:
I'm amazed you people are still entertaining this absolutely trash opinion that's yet to adequately explain how discounts are parasitical to the community at large.

I explained it very clearly: online discount sellers offer no support for a game and undercut the real stores the game depends on. They're extracting short-term profits at the expense of the long-term health of the game and the community as a whole and GW absolutely needs to keep limits on them so the real stores can survive. I genuinely do not understand why people here are so eager to support the gaming equivalent of Walmart coming in and driving all the local stores out of business.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:


You do understand that these policies are for the benefit of the community as a whole, right? And that they favor small independent stores over parasitic online sellers that will gladly kill a game if it means 5% more profit this quarter?

This policy benefits nothing but GW's bottom line and in fact HURTS the community by hurting stores.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
I'm amazed you people are still entertaining this absolutely trash opinion that's yet to adequately explain how discounts are parasitical to the community at large.

I explained it very clearly: online discount sellers offer no support for a game and undercut the real stores the game depends on. They're extracting short-term profits at the expense of the long-term health of the game and the community as a whole and GW absolutely needs to keep limits on them so the real stores can survive. I genuinely do not understand why people here are so eager to support the gaming equivalent of Walmart coming in and driving all the local stores out of business.

They offer just as much support as any other store, even more so for areas that lack local stores. Just because you can't play at them does NOT mean they don't offer support and you're the only person that can't realize or accept that fact. Hell, my local offers bigger discounts than online stores through their clearance GW table just so they're not sitting on merchandise they haven't sold in years. They're nothing like Walmart that literally predatory targets locations to shut local stores, a thing GW stores themselves do.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:


If you can afford something at 80% of MSRP you can afford it at 100% of MSRP by saving up for a bit longer.

I'm in awe.

 Platuan4th wrote:
This policy benefits nothing but GW's bottom line and in fact HURTS the community by hurting stores.

It hurts parasites far more than real stores. The closer to MSRP everyone is forced to sell the better for real stores.

They offer just as much support as any other store, even more so for areas that lack local stores. They're nothing like Walmart that literally predatory targets locations to shut local stores, a thing GW stores themselves do.

Oh really? Online-only sellers are giving a place to play and other people to play with?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:


If you can afford something at 80% of MSRP you can afford it at 100% of MSRP by saving up for a bit longer.

I'm in awe.

I'm not in awe of your pointless spam.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:


Oh really? Online-only sellers are giving a place to play and other people to play with?

Stop being deliberately obtuse.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:


Oh really? Online-only sellers are giving a place to play and other people to play with?

Stop being deliberately obtuse.

I could say the same to you. Stop pretending that an online store offers anywhere near the level of support a real store provides.

I have to say, I've never encountered "anything less than MSRP is immoral" as an actual argument before.

Can we all agree to just stop engaging with the obvious troll?

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:
Oh really? Online-only sellers are giving a place to play and other people to play with?

Yes. Online sellers have to have a brick and mortar storefront to be able to buy from GW. As a general fact, the online sellers tend to have the biggest play areas.

GW, in contrast, don't have play areas anymore in Spain, only demo mini tables, and are one man operations. By your definitions, they are the ones leeching off from the hobby.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:


Oh really? Online-only sellers are giving a place to play and other people to play with?

Stop being deliberately obtuse.

I could say the same to you. Stop pretending that an online store offers anywhere near the level of support a real store provides.

To someone without a "real store", they offer literally the same value. Your inability to grasp that concept is why you're being obtuse and why you're not worth responding to. I'm out, someone else can beat their head against your concrete wall.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:


Oh really? Online-only sellers are giving a place to play and other people to play with?

Stop being deliberately obtuse.

I could say the same to you. Stop pretending that an online store offers anywhere near the level of support a real store provides.

Well McDougal provides support, but in a different way. He has shown different companies miniatures in comparison to others, merely because people asked him if x bits fit with Y bits. I asked him how Mantics haflings stacked next to Wargames Atlantic's, and he talked me out of a purchase. That is some pretty good support. Something neither GW nor my LGS (non friendly LGS at that) would do. I am not quite sure how that qualifies as being a parasite, and also I am quite sure that he is not sitting on a fat stack of money laughing about his grand scheme to put local shops out of business. The One stop aspect of his shop is also very supportive as it means I am not paying for shipping 5 times for what I want.

It may not be a "place to play" but is that the only measure of a good shop? If so, does that mean its ok to buy video games on-line vs in stores because those stores dont have places for me to play? Or shop for groceries on-line vs buying at the Food Lion down the street because I cant eat in those stores?

 xttz wrote:
Can we all agree to just stop engaging with the obvious troll?

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I'll try harder.

I'll also include GW shareholders in my prayers - or rather their dividends, which I may have lowered by going on ebay rather than direct to GW. Forgive me Tom Kirby, for I have sinned...

Let's leave it at that. It clearly is the hill he's decided to die on, but hey, at least he'll be dead!

 Smokestack wrote:

It may not be a "place to play" but is that the only measure of a good shop? If so, does that mean its ok to buy video games on-line vs in stores because those stores dont have places for me to play? Or shop for groceries on-line vs buying at the Food Lion down the street because I cant eat in those stores?

Hell, most people don't play at stores, so a store providing gaming space isn't value for those people anyway.

One can only imagine what this guy thinks of the wildly successful oneline sales groups, like the Facebook groups, that aren't even stores yet offer discounts.

 xttz wrote:
Can we all agree to just stop engaging with the obvious troll?

Troll would imply he's just doing it to get a rise out of everyone.

I think he's genuine.

 Platuan4th wrote:


Hell, most people don't play at stores, so a store providing gaming space isn't value for those people anyway.

You need to think of the shareholders. The shareholders!

We should come up with a litany of confession for people who use online discounters.

I have greatly sinned, in my gaming and in my modeling, in what I have bought and what I have failed to buy.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
I'm amazed you people are still entertaining this absolutely trash opinion that's yet to adequately explain how discounts are parasitical to the community at large.

I explained it very clearly: online discount sellers offer no support for a game and undercut the real stores the game depends on. They're extracting short-term profits at the expense of the long-term health of the game and the community as a whole and GW absolutely needs to keep limits on them so the real stores can survive. I genuinely do not understand why people here are so eager to support the gaming equivalent of Walmart coming in and driving all the local stores out of business.

If I was the gaming equivalent of Walmart I'd need several billion dollars, hundreds of employees and locations across 50 us states plus.

Please.

Ok, to play Khorne's advocate here.

Let us assume that offering deep discounts with or without a physical storefront is parasitical.
Let us assume that many of us require elbow length rubber gloves to buy and antibiotics afterwards.

This is fair business anyway..

We do NOT live under a planned state economy with set prices for everything. If someone wants to sell Warhammer on the cheap, don't mess with them, and don't mess with people who buy. Economic freedom is open for anyone who has market access, and the internet is a big market.

This is the wrong hill to die on for those who want to see consumer ethics. Of all the things to complain about with what else is going on, though in fairness we cant discuss those topics here. McDougall Designs and his evidently insidious vile naughty spooky evil practices or others of his ilk will not cause GW to crumble, and some low income guy will afford to get his models.

Again, I don’t play at stores, like most people.

All I need a store to do is sell me product, however they want to do it.

And, actually, McDougall does offer more than going direct to the manufacturer/game company. He offers single sprues of their offerings, which is great for kit bashing or checking out the models before a proper purchase (having recently ordered a bunch of sprues myself).

The only “value” I need, as a member of the community, is for a store to sell me stuff. The End.