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2023/04/11 03:54:53
Subject: Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny Official Trailer
If you were concerned about the writing (and storytelling decisions), shouldn’t you hate on JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson? They’re who I blame.
Now, if you want to blame Kennedy for hiring them, that’s fair but very different from what you’ve been posting. The only reasons to post the garbage you started this tangent with…are political.
Yeah, but D+ subscriptions are DOWN despite the avalanche of Star Wars content. Not the result you'd expect of wildly successful shows, yes?
Which is precisely the sort of out of context but technically accurate bs that fuels these discussions.
D+ numbers did fall in Q4 2022. How many Star Wars shows premiered in Q4 2022? Zero. In fact, Andor finished, and with precious little new MCU or SW content aside from 2 specials, it's no surprise that perhaps in a cost of living crunch subscribers decided to take a break if that was their main focus.
Now I'm acutely aware that my speculation is no stronger than yours, but unless you can provide month by month breakdowns of the subscriber numbers that show people left either while Andor was still showing, or before either the Werewolf or Guardians specials aired, and didn't all just feth off in December because there was nothing of note from the big franchises except poor old Willow (RIP) trying to carry the service all alone, it's equally valid, and I'd argue more plausible too.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Perhaps worth noting as well Q4 is when some of their price increases on the D+ subscription were kicking in as well which may have led to some, myself included, opting out of paying for it.
2023/04/11 07:09:21
Subject: Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny Official Trailer
AduroT wrote: Perhaps worth noting as well Q4 is when some of their price increases on the D+ subscription were kicking in as well which may have led to some, myself included, opting out of paying for it.
According to what i know, and this is not much, the drop in subscriptions at least coincided with Disney not renewing the rights to some sports series/leagues that are massively popular in Asia, like for example the Indian Premiere League of cricket, which of course is a huge, huge market that can easily swing a couple hundred-thousand subscribers as a consequence.
2023/05/20 16:15:59
Subject: Re:Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny Official Trailer
This review is not made by some weird right-wing outlet, but by the BBC:
Harrison Ford and Phoebe Waller-Bridge can't lift a film that is "a depressing reminder of how much livelier his past adventures were", writes Nicholas Barber.
This... does not sound great. But go on:
The good news is that it isn't a disaster. It's a respectable, competent addition to the series. The bad news is that a disaster might have been more worthwhile. The Dial of Destiny takes a sudden, bold and sure-to-be divisive swerve into wacky uncharted territory in its last half-hour, but otherwise it's like fan fiction, a tie-in video game, or a branded theme-park ride, in that it's content to tick off everything you've seen in other Indiana Jones films already, but with little of Spielberg's sparkle.
No. Oh no.
Like another of Ford's so-called "legacy sequels", Star Wars: The Force Awakens, this one brings back old characters (John Rhys-Davies's Sallah has a pointless cameo), introduces new ones who are strangely similar to the old characters (Ethann Isidore plays a substandard copy of Short Round from Temple of Doom), and has the air of a film passing the torch (or whip) to the next generation. But it does all this in an even gloomier fashion than The Force Awakens did. I'm not sure how many fans want to see Indiana Jones as a broken, helpless old man who cowers in the corner while his patronising goddaughter takes the lead, but that's what we're given, and it's as bleak as it sounds.
Besides, everything is smaller and cheaper than it was in the original trilogy. Indy up against the military might of the Third Reich in 1936? We could all get behind that. But Indy up against one scientist and his silent, interchangeable henchmen in 1969? It's just not such a big deal. Mangold and his team dutifully crank out the action sequences, but it's often hard to tell what's happening or why, and there is a shortage of surprising, rip-roaring moments to make you stand up and cheer, despite the best efforts of John Williams' rousing classic theme. Take an early chase in New York, for instance. It's set during a ticker-tape parade for the three astronauts who were on the Apollo 11 moon mission, so you can imagine the high jinks that Spielberg might have cooked up: some slapstick with Buzz Aldrin, perhaps, or a giant papier-maché moon rolling down Fifth Avenue like the boulder in Raiders of The Lost Ark. But Mangold and his team do so little with the parade that you wonder why they bothered staging it.
That's not damning with faint praise, it's just damning.
The jokes, the zest and the exuberance just aren't there, so instead of a joyous send-off for our beloved hero, we get a depressing reminder of how much livelier his past adventures were. Considering that the screenplay is credited to four writers – Mangold, David Koepp and Jez and John-Henry Butterworth – couldn't they at least have thought of something cool for Indy to do with his whip?
Aash wrote: Wow, sounds like this one might be less worth the time to watch it than crystal skull.
I'd not put too much stock in a single review, given that it's Cannes Film Festival season right now and thus snobbery is at an all-year high, but if they all sound like that it sure seems like they have an absolute stinker on their hands here.
2023/05/20 16:57:54
Subject: Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny Official Trailer
I've been reading around a bit, other reviews are lackluster at best, with stuff like 'It ticks the boxes but the magic is gone' or 'Other than Harrison Ford, the movie does not have much going for it' and 'Feels like an unneccessary addition to a franchise that already had one part too many'.
2023/05/20 17:42:37
Subject: Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny Official Trailer
Fairly even spread between fresh and rotten from the professional reviews, but only one critic, of those that list a score, actually rate it above bang average on their scale.
Only one actual fresh review goes as far as 4/5, every other is 3/5, grade C etc. So even the positive reviews are only barely positive.
I'll watch it, of course I will, but there's no way I'm going out of my way to see it.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Aash wrote: Wow, sounds like this one might be less worth the time to watch it than crystal skull.
I'd not put too much stock in a single review, given that it's Cannes Film Festival season right now and thus snobbery is at an all-year high, but if they all sound like that it sure seems like they have an absolute stinker on their hands here.
Not sure about that. The snippets of Cannes coverage I've caught has been fawing over specific actors and directors, but the reaction to a lot of the big films has been tepid.
Which is generally a bad sign. High praise or even big negative reactions usually mean something interesting is afoot, but passive disinterest generally indicates the movies are just dull nothings.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/20 19:01:12
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2023/05/21 14:27:07
Subject: Re:Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny Official Trailer
I've got a few sources that I trust I haven't heard a verdict from, but so far even the ones that tend to see the bright side of things haven't been too positive on this one.
2023/06/27 10:59:00
Subject: Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny Official Trailer
They really should have gotten Sean Patrick Flannery in and made a Fate of Atlantis adaptation. Then afterwards I can dream of an Infernal Machine follow up show lol.
2023/06/28 05:42:55
Subject: Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny Official Trailer
Is that a satire link or actual clickbait outrage porn?
And I think RLM have the right idea: Indiana Jones is less a person than an archetype, Adventure Man. Seeing him grow old, have a family, and exist outside of the 20’s-40’s pulp era feels all wrong for a character designed to mimic adventure serials.
I think they should recast him, like they do with James Bond, and put him into all kinds of pulp adventures, plundering Atlantis, fighting Cthulhu, beating the Nazis to the hollow earth, etc..
The time to switch who portrays Indy is sadly long past.
Crystal Skull. That’s when they should’ve done it. Not because Harrison Ford was doing an old. Oh no. If he’s game for more, I’ll watch more. But because it was A Latter Day Sequel.
It worked for Mad Max (no I’m not saying Max and Indy are particularly linked characters), and it could’ve worked for Crystal Skull - a film I still enjoy well enough. Yes the monkey swinging scene sticks out like a sore thumb, but I find other criticism of it a smidge overblown.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also alsö now home from work?
Totes treated myself to the first two DVD sets of Young Indiana Jones Chronicles.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/28 14:11:14
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This film barely lets up. Partially assisted by my local flea pit having shallow seats, I was genuinely edge of my seat when it counted.
Cast are solid. The de-aging has come on leaps and bounds. You can still tell it’s there, but it’s definitely getting out of Uncanny Valley. And to be honest? It’s used only when needed.
The plot is a bit silly in place, but no more than Das Candlewick Nazis, Closed Chest Heart Removal Surgery or Magic Goblets silly. Remember the film you’re watching and you’ll be fine.
There are the odd bits where you think “wait, why are you going there?”. But bear with it, the reasoning follows in a scene or two. I quite liked that writing myself as it kept me paying close attention.
Overall a very satisfying end to Indy’s long running saga. It keeps its surprises well enough, and I wouldn’t say it cops out at any point.
And since you’ve read this far, have a wee spoiler.
Spoiler:
Mutt is dead. KIA during a war (unsure which, but then history isn’t my strong suit).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Flicked back through thread.
Reviewers are talking out of their bums. This is absolutely an Indiana Jones movie. And it’s absolutely no worse than Par For The Course.
It’s thrilling, it has chases, it has a solid cast (barring one or two I didn’t personally care for, but even then they’re not bad as such). It genuinely throws a curve ball now and again. It knows it’s job and it pulls it off.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/06/29 07:43:08
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I came out of this with extremely mixed feelings. The de-aging stuff was actually pretty good and there was a lot of the movie that kept the feel of the originals (even if updated for a modern audience).
That being said, the final act was terrible and I'll spoiler my opinion:
Spoiler:
With the first three Indy movies, the idea that the special artefacts in question were actually capable of the mythical powers the stories told of was pretty good. The Ark of the Covenant and Holy Grail are famous tales in Christianity (and therefore most of Europe and the USA) while the stones in Temple of Doom are important to Hindu culture.
Crystal Skull was awful for many many reasons but the whole "Aliens worked with the Aztects to build their temples" thing was the worst. This movie takes that premise and just goes off the rails with it.
The Dial is a very interesting piece of technology and is a credit to the genius of the ancient world but as a way to discover a rift in time and space? No, sorry that lost me completely. I even joked to my friend that they'd go back in time and meet Archimedes, then it happened all of five minutes later.
The filmmakers didn't learn from Crystal Skull that if you're going to pick a MacGuffin for a movie about an adventuring archaeologist, make it actually something from antiquity that has stories surrounding mystical or fantastical powers.
Also Christ on a bike I get Mutt wasn't super well-liked but killing him in what is very clearly 'Nam? That's dark.
2023/06/29 17:39:28
Subject: Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny Official Trailer
I enjoyed it. In terms of the device actually working (which the film kept us guessing about until quite late on, which I appreciated) it’s not really any more or less believable than the other Indy films.
Sure, the Antikythera device is hammered round a pole of pure narrativium, but then so was melting Nazis with the power of God, The Shankara Stones and Indy just happening to know a useful chant etc.
And I liked that last bit. Sure I get why people won’t so I’m not going to be definitive in my speech. But it felt right that Indy, a man at that point seemingly dying just wouldn’t want to go. It’s the thing he’s studied and adored his life, right there in front of him. He’d lost his Dad, most of his old friends, his son and his wife. If he had to go out, you can understand his motivations.
The only bit that felt a smidge forced was the Centurion seeing them coming down and bee-lining for them. Not sure that was especially needed and the same result could’ve been handled differently.
Plus, the first Nazi that copped a ballista bolt, when you think about it, was the first Nazi to be killed!
Overall, whilst I don’t think it’ll be anyone’s Favourite Indy film? It’s still comfortably top three for me. Interchangeable in position with Last Crusade.
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The difference between something like the Holy Grail and the Dial is that in myths and stories, the Grail did have mystical powers. The other relics in Raiders and Temple also are both said to have fantastical power in various different religious texts or stories.
The Dial isn't any of that. It's a very cool and advanced piece of technology but unlike the (fake) Spear of Longinus which is in the very same film, as far as I have researched it's never been connected to myths or legends. It takes some wild concepts and tries to make them seem realistic by saying it's all just advanced mathematics.
The stuff with Indy being a depressed old man is good don't get me wrong, but the MacGuffin itself ruins a lot of the fun of the rest of the film.
2023/06/29 18:08:57
Subject: Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny Official Trailer
For me the plot works because the Antikythera Device is a well known archaeological wonder. And the fantastical addition here isn’t a million miles from what it’s believed to have done. It was an orrery and at Best Guess used for that purpose.
It was also well, well ahead of its time.
For me the joy was finding out the supernatural ability (not property, the device itself didn’t caused the time rift things. It could just calculate where and when) was…right. For most of the film Basil and the Nazi Goon’s beliefs about it were very much in question.
Indeed it’s not until we see Archimedes’ tomb that we get the first evidence the seeming loonies were quite correct.
There’s just a layering to how this film dishes out its information I really appreciate. For instance, why did the Baddie head to Tangiers? Scene or two later? Ohhhhh! That makes good sense! Archimedes tomb’s relief and that watch? Wait….did Archimedes use it to travel forward in time? Or did he travel back in time? Is Archimedes….Indy? Nope. Curveball on both without being a BS rug pull.
It….kept me guessing. And when I didn’t guess right? It wasn’t a “nyeh nyeh you are the wrong because of info we didn’t previously disclose”.
That being said? I definitely want to see it again. Mostly to see if knowing what’s to come changes my opinion any. Because whilst distracting your audiences with possibilities is a skill unto itself? Such distraction can cover sloppy story telling, because I’m too busy trying to piece stuff together.
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The leap from "The Dial can track eclipses and the Olympic cycle" to "The Dial can track rifts in time" is just too much. It doesn't matter that the Nazi guy believed that it was a mystical artefact because, unlike the Grail or Ark, it doesn't have a real-world story basis to work off.
The justification for its time-traveling shenanigans was that it was an advanced piece of technology for its time and that because the Nazi physicist was good at maths he is suddenly able to find rifts in time with an ancient clock.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/29 18:38:10
2023/06/29 19:09:40
Subject: Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny Official Trailer
Sorry for the spoilers folks, but they are necessary!
Spoiler:
I do get where you’re coming from. But it’s how the film handled it.
Nazi and Basil both made leaps of logic. And those leaps were seemingly into…nothingness. But we have seen just as weird and wonderful before.
In terms of the real world device? The Antikythera Mechanism has long been a fascinating piece of Forteana. Because Fortean Times was the first source for me learning of it.
So long ago, nobody had quite figured out what it was for. And it is an inherently fascinating trinket. A glimpse into what our relative ancients were able to create. All the more fascinating because, to the best of my archaeological understanding (it’s wee. Very wee)? A clockwork device out of nowhere. No preceding applications of such a mechanism have been found, so in the archaeological record it absolutely juts out. It appears to be a one off - and an incredible application unto itself.
But the fact I’d wager most outside the Nerdosphere have even heard of it gets the film a pass. And not to be rude? How many of us as kids had heard of the Grail or Ark before we saw those films?
I was proper wee, like teensy tiny wee, no more than 9 for Grail, and from a non-religious home for clarity and honesty of position.
The Antikythera device I first learned of probably…late 20’s
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