Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors. Pre orders. p.280.

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**bobthe4th**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
If you’re going to have to buy resin, you might as well get some value for your dollar. Check out this not-Tomb Kings army for $125. I went in on the kickstarter, and the minis I received were good quality, mostly one or two pieces, and superior in casting to any Forgeworld resins I bought in the 2000’s/early 2010’s. They’re a good height, although the heavily armed HQ character is a but hunched over, and could use a tactical rock base for a more imposing height.

Maybe it's the paint job, but they look pretty bad.

**caladancid**

Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

It's genuinely disheartening how many people seem to want to do away with resin, most don't seem to realise how vital it is, both in terms of the higher level of fine detail that it holds and also the fact that it allows GW/FW to make models that otherwise wouldn't be given the production green light due to cost.

Uptonius wrote:
Then maybe they should stop selling their resin trash.

Oh dear. Describing something that you don't like as "trash" is never a good look

Uptonius wrote:
If you read the comments on videos about new model releases you'll see about 90% of people will just not pay for resin no matter how great the model is.

This is a ridiculous statement. Your hyperbole is off the scale.

Uptonius wrote:
I want a fleet of ridge/iron crawlers for Necromunda but once they revealed the upgrade was a FW kit it was dead in the water.

I bought two Iron Crawlers, I absolutely love the model. Refusing to buy a model because of the material it's made in really doesn't make sense to me.

Uptonius wrote:
They lose thousands if not hundreds of thousands in sales limiting items to resin.

It's not possible to know whether or not this is true. Regardless, you don't understand the factors involved when GW decide whether or not to cast a model in resin.

Uptonius wrote:
GW is for profit but they're not exactly about selling as many models as possible. We're that the case they would actually be ready for their release dates and would do proper preorders.

Of course they want to sell as many models as they can, you just don't understand the decision making and logistics involved.

Uptonius wrote:
Perhaps the non-resin crowd is move vocal that people willing to work with inferior garbage. So you just don't hear people talking about their resin kits very often.

It's hard to take you seriously when you refer to mediums other than HiPs plastic as "garbage" or "trash". Resin is better than plastic when it comes to holding fine detail. This is a fact. I, and others like me, will happily do the extra work required with resin models because when it comes to fine detail it is superior to plastic.

Uptonius wrote:
No one plays Necromunda in my area because of the resin upgrades.

That's sad, Necromunda is a fantastic game that I've only recently started playing. The resin upgrades are the cherry on top of a delicious cake. You and your colleagues are missing out.

Uptonius wrote:
No one plays anything other than plastic HH models. No one really plays titans... They might own one or two (or in one guys case an entire friggin Legio) but they don't actually use them.
Resin needs to be removed from all of GWs products ASAP.

Titans are rarely seen on tabletops, mostly because they are very expensive, as well as being a massive investment in hobby time. If there were no resin titans there would be no titans, full stop. Most resin models produced by FW/GW are resin because it wouldn't make financial sense to produce them in plastic, mostly due to the larger cost for the molds.

It would be nice if people had a basic understanding of the factors involved in model production before they have an anti-resin rant...one day, maybe?

You wouldn’t hear any complaints about resin if GW made high quality resin models. Instead, it’s a crapshoot whether you will get the infamous sweating resin or a corkscrewed sword (exaggeration but only a bit haha), or a clean model with great detail. People pay money for premium products, they actually expect premium products.

**Sarouan**

If it's just a question of "what can I have for that amount of money ?", you will always have an answer that gives "more value" - in the end, it all depends of people's situations.

I mean, I own a 3D printer, so I obviously will be able to print way more for the equivalent I buy in material than any company may offer as "finished" products. But that's not counting the amount of work needed to cure, build, remove print lines, and so on.

Yeah, there are equivalent of Tombs Kings of various quality and various prices, but in the end it's just a question of what the customer really want to achieve and obtain. Is it just for collection ? For playing ? For playing in official tournaments ? Depending of the answer, it shuts down some doors and open others.

For example, if I want to play in official Old World GW tournaments, I'm obviously not investing my time and money in buying obvious "copies / proxies" or using the old base size. Because I know it will close options to me if I do it.

It's a Hobby that is time consuming, after all. There's no value if it doesn't fit your purpose for it. That's why money isn't the only factor here.

**Voss**

caladancid wrote:

You wouldn’t hear any complaints about resin if GW made high quality resin models. Instead, it’s a crapshoot whether you will get the infamous sweating resin or a corkscrewed sword (exaggeration but only a bit haha), or a clean model with great detail. People pay money for premium products, they actually expect premium products.

You left out 'warped and brittle,' which was distressingly common in the handful of FW bits I've bought. The chunky ork totem pole was fine (well, after a lot of fuzz cleanup), as were some of the small tau bits. The AI flyers were decidedly not.

But yeah, I'm less interested in GW's bottom line and more in good models. So FW resin (not as bad as finecast) doesn't terribly impress me.

**Undead_Love-Machine**

Voss wrote:
caladancid wrote:

You wouldn’t hear any complaints about resin if GW made high quality resin models. Instead, it’s a crapshoot whether you will get the infamous sweating resin or a corkscrewed sword (exaggeration but only a bit haha), or a clean model with great detail. People pay money for premium products, they actually expect premium products.

You left out 'warped and brittle,' which was distressingly common in the handful of FW bits I've bought. The chunky ork totem pole was fine (well, after a lot of fuzz cleanup), as were some of the small tau bits. The AI flyers were decidedly not.

But yeah, I'm less interested in GW's bottom line and more in good models. So FW resin (not as bad as finecast) doesn't terribly impress me.

The FW items that you mentioned are all at least ten years old IIRC, it sounds like your experience with FW resin was quite a few years ago? The quality of FW resin these days is much, much better than it was back then.

None of the FW models that I have purchased in the past few years has had any problems, apart from the often-mentioned, godforsakenly stubborn mold-release agent.

**BobtheInquisitor**

bobthe4th wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
If you’re going to have to buy resin, you might as well get some value for your dollar. Check out this not-Tomb Kings army for $125. I went in on the kickstarter, and the minis I received were good quality, mostly one or two pieces, and superior in casting to any Forgeworld resins I bought in the 2000’s/early 2010’s. They’re a good height, although the heavily armed HQ character is a but hunched over, and could use a tactical rock base for a more imposing height.

Maybe it's the paint job, but they look pretty bad.

It might be the paint job or the quality of the pictures. In real life, the sculpts are solid, superior to the plastic basic skeletons, and cheaper to boot. They are not Forgeworld quality sculpts, but their castings are better. Games Workshop charges far, far above market conventions for resin miniatures, and their sculpts are not worth the vastly extra cost. If you need the brand name to take in the brand store, that’s understandable if unfortunate. If not, I don’t see why you would want to choose expensive and outdated skeletons for the core of your army if you don’t need to.

**Paymaster Games**

I think lost kingdom makes some fantastic not tomb kings, bit it would require a high 3d printer to get the best out of it.

Anyway the resins look good and with no major flaws. I would prefer that GW cast these kinds of models in metal. GW are quite good at casting in metal and it would not bet that expensive since they already set up for mass production in metal and would likely be cheaper for the long run.

As to the tomb king weapons we saw earlier, I think it may go to a updated 4 edition mummy unit. All of the weapon looked like they went to some kind of foot tomb prince or king, but with the release of the new resin tomb king model and the fact Bretonnia is getting foot knights this kind of makes sence and fits into taking the best from each edition to create a new edition.

**Theophony**

Paymaster Games wrote:
I think lost kingdom makes some fantastic not tomb kings, bit it would require a high 3d printer to get the best out of it.

Anyway the resins look good and with no major flaws. I would prefer that GW cast these kinds of models in metal. GW are quite good at casting in metal and it would not bet that expensive since they already set up for mass production in metal and would likely be cheaper for the long run.

As to the tomb king weapons we saw earlier, I think it may go to a updated 4 edition mummy unit. All of the weapon looked like they went to some kind of foot tomb prince or king, but with the release of the new resin tomb king model and the fact Bretonnia is getting foot knights this kind of makes sence and fits into taking the best from each edition to create a new edition.

I though GW sold off their metal fabrication equipment years ago, I thought it might even have gone to Infinity. It was right before they switched everything to finecrap, I could be wrong about where it went, but the costs of metal and the expansion of their plastics production meant things got cheaper and faster to make in plastics.

Lost kingdom make fantastic .stl files. I love the Chaos Dwarves I have from them.

**Baragash**

Theophony wrote:

I though GW sold off their metal fabrication equipment years ago, I thought it might even have gone to Infinity. It was right before they switched everything to finecrap, I could be wrong about where it went, but the costs of metal and the expansion of their plastics production meant things got cheaper and faster to make in plastics.

GW are still casting part of the LotR range in metal, so they have some capacity.

**Paymaster Games**

Fine cast is a casting medium that uses the same spin casting equipment that is used in metal casting. So yes they have the equipment on hand.

**Dysartes**

Paymaster Games wrote:
Fine cast is a casting medium that uses the same spin casting equipment that is used in metal casting. So yes they have the equipment on hand.

I was under the impression that Finecast was a miscasting medium...

**triplegrim**

Baragash wrote:
Theophony wrote:

I though GW sold off their metal fabrication equipment years ago, I thought it might even have gone to Infinity. It was right before they switched everything to finecrap, I could be wrong about where it went, but the costs of metal and the expansion of their plastics production meant things got cheaper and faster to make in plastics.

GW are still casting part of the LotR range in metal, so they have some capacity.

They sell some metal skaven too. And ikit claw can not be cast in anything else than metal I've heard.

**Overread**

GW could have sold a chunk of their metal equipment and kept only a portion of it for reduced production capacity.

**MaxT**

It’s not like they can’t buy a few more spincasting machines and hire a couple of new apprentices if they need to.

**nathan2004**

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/03/40-years-of-warhammer-deathmaster-snikch-is-the-deadliest-skaven-of-all-time/

Love the old art work, so much fun I had playing against Skaven - the game would swing wildly sometimes one way or the other but it was always a good time.

**Theophony**

Skaven was my first GW army many decades ago. I've always loved the older sculpts above the newer ones. Just started printing out a Skaven Bloodbowl team this week and love the models as they are a throwback to this style.

**Vulcan**

Paymaster Games wrote:
I am going to have faith that 8th edition is a distant memory.

The Eighth Edition For Life forum might have something to say about that.

No, it won't have any impact on what GW does, but just like 7th and 8th and AoS didn't turn 6th into a distant memory, I don't expect TOW to completely erase 8th either.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On the Plaguemonks?

As sculpts I guess they’re OK. They are a little plain and dull, but as they’re meant to be riddled with disease I would expect dynamic poses.

The kit however? I have never owned a box without quite significant mould slippage. Not just prominent mould lines, but actually slippage. Like the mould never actually lined up properly.

No it’s not too much of a challenge to fix, but it’s well beyond the realms of something I should have to fix.

Hunh. I got a couple boxes a long time ago, and I don't recall the mould lines being all that bad. Makes me wonder if you got a bad batch run by someone who didn't really know what they were doing.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
So you want plastic instead?

Then you get no model. It's not resin or plastic. It's resin or nothing.

No, it's GW plastic... or I get plastic from another company. GW resin is trash. It's always been trash, and I don't see them being smart enough for it to STOP being trash anytime soon.

And let's face it. There are plenty of competitors out there making 'not-GW-compatible minis, honest!' that in the end, GW is quite expendable from a gaming standpoint. So long as my FLGS is not a GW store, GW minis are totally irrelevant.

You are person with zero business sense and would bankrupt gw in 6 months. Which seeing how big and profitable gw is requires impressive level of incompency.

What people like you forget is gw is in for profit, not destroying company for people's dreams.

We'll see what their resin sales are like, compared to what their similar plastic kids of the past. That will tell the tale far better than any amount of name-calling.

Oh and your beloved plastic is reason why characters cost triple and amount of variety went down. No profit making multiple plastic commisar/ork weirdboy etc.

The only argument you've made so far that makes any sense. But then, I tend to covert my characters from other kits, so Offical GW Character Minis (TM) are a distinctly small percentage of my character models so it holds little weight for me.

Alsy you plastic faith believers just keep shouting your slogans forgetting truth of right material for right job. Just because idea of using super glue is too hard

Ever glue metal minis? Compared to that, resin is modeling on easy mode.

Been there, done that.

**MaxT**

You must think I’m a freak, I use superglue on plastic models

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

MaxT wrote:
You must think I’m a freak, I use superglue on plastic models

There’s a difference.

A difference between *thinking* someone is a freak. And *knowing* someone is a freak. 😛

My good fella, all jokes apart? Embracing the polystyrene cement. It. Will. Change. Your. Life.

**BobtheInquisitor**

MaxT wrote:
You must think I’m a freak, I use superglue on plastic models

Yeah. That’s the modeling equivalent of assembling a jigsaw puzzle with the picture side down.

**BertBert**

MaxT wrote:
You must think I’m a freak, I use superglue on plastic models

So do I, but that's for a rather specific reason: I tend to fiddle around with poses, convert and re-use models and parts a lot, and super glue allows me to "break" them apart relatively easily if I ever happen to change my mind.

**Overread**

Superglue is also good to use if you paint in parts as plastic glue melts the plastic and can create quite a mess

**Voss**

My experience (back when I used both for different materials or mixed materials) was plastic glue was far more (and unnecessarily) messy, and tended to get worse in the bottle over time.

Switched to superglue entirely and had a much easier time of it.

**tneva82**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
MaxT wrote:
You must think I’m a freak, I use superglue on plastic models

Yeah. That’s the modeling equivalent of assembling a jigsaw puzzle with the picture side down.

Or you want to keep resale value bit higher.

Or you paint subassemblies at which point you need to scratch paint away for proper connection.

Right tool at right time.

**BobtheInquisitor**

I’ll give you the subassembly painting point. Counter intuitive to me, but that would make sense for superglue…assuming you already assembled things like paired arms with a gun using plastic glue to get the fit right.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

BertBert wrote:
MaxT wrote:
You must think I’m a freak, I use superglue on plastic models

So do I, but that's for a rather specific reason: I tend to fiddle around with poses, convert and re-use models and parts a lot, and super glue allows me to "break" them apart relatively easily if I ever happen to change my mind.

Surely that’s what blutak is for?

**BertBert**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Surely that’s what blutak is for?

Depending on the complexity, it's usually pinning (if needed), super glue and then green stuff to support and clean up gaps and transitions. Plastic cement doesn't help when various materials are involved.
Then there's also the matter of rebasing, swapping to a different weapon after a rules change or needing a specific bit for a different miniature. Super glue bonds are just more flexible in that regard.

However, I can totally understand people just wanting their miniatures to be welded together, it's just a different approach.

**Undead_Love-Machine**

Voss wrote:
My experience (back when I used both for different materials or mixed materials) was plastic glue was far more (and unnecessarily) messy, and tended to get worse in the bottle over time.

Switched to superglue entirely and had a much easier time of it.

There is nothing inherently messy about plastic glue/Polystyrene Cement. It sounds like you maybe had a batch of poor quality stuff?

Tamiya poly cement is perfect for neat, non-messy work, it comes in a glass bottle with a small brush attached to the lid, amazing stuff.

It doesn't get worse over time either, unless you leave the top off the bottle for a long lengthh of time.

**Overread**

I have found that any needle point applicators for plastic glue get very easily blocked when the glue part cures in the needle.

Though I've also found the best way to clear it is to take the needle out and put it under a flame - eg a match or lighter. Just be sure to be holding the needle with tweezers or such (cause it will get hot) and to run the flame over the whole length and it will burn it out

**Carlovonsexron**

Overread wrote:
I have found that any needle point applicators for plastic glue get very easily blocked when the glue part cures in the needle.

Though I've also found the best way to clear it is to take the needle out and put it under a flame - eg a match or lighter. Just be sure to be holding the needle with tweezers or such (cause it will get hot) and to run the flame over the whole length and it will burn it out

I like Tamiya bottles of plastic glue for this reason, as they have a little brush as part of the bottle cap that is always just sitting inside the glue, ready to be used.