Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

On Hellebore’s comment? The background even leaned into that after a fashion.

True Gor are the Horned Goatmen we’re now familiar with.

Ungor are considered a lesser breed, but still have Goatish features.

And so there is room for those that straddle the line between mere Mutant and Beastman.

Going a wee bit further into the lore? We’re told Beastmen are lesser Chaos Followers, as the Gor and Ungor are born into it. They don’t have a choice. Which means for Mutants that happen to be a bit Beastly, and turned to the Gods even in desperation may cause jealously among the True Gor.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Which means for Mutants that happen to be a bit Beastly, and turned to the Gods even in desperation may cause jealously among the True Gor.

From what we know from the few novels that have Beastmen POVs, mutants and human born Ungor that join the herd are just treated as Ungor. Ungor just seems to be their word for anything in the herd not True Gor or Minotaur.

Edits for word cleanup and clarifications.

There’s still the potential there. And it’s suitably chaotic

Turnskins and Gaves, humanborn Beastmen, could make for a nice unit for all the non-caprigor to be chucked into, for a bit of variety. No true Goir want to associate with them, so make them a single unit that an army can take as chaff, as they hopelessly fight to prove themselves worthy of the tribe.

 Hellebore wrote:
I am also annoyed they went the boring and highly unchaotic route of all beastmen being goatmen. The really old metal models of snake heads and tails and random mutations were cool.

This happened in 1994. You're still annoyed? Let it go, man.

We’ve also seen fewer mutated Chaos followers in general.

The short lived but bits rich Forsaken were a welcome break from that. But for the most part? It feels like you’re bodily normal until suddenly you’re a spawn.

Bring back even cosmetic mutations.

 Pariah Press wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
I am also annoyed they went the boring and highly unchaotic route of all beastmen being goatmen. The really old metal models of snake heads and tails and random mutations were cool.

This happened in 1994. You're still annoyed? Let it go, man.

The original Realm of Chaos books are still the most highly regarded and sought after Warhammer Chaos literature.

 Daba wrote:

 Pariah Press wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
I am also annoyed they went the boring and highly unchaotic route of all beastmen being goatmen. The really old metal models of snake heads and tails and random mutations were cool.

This happened in 1994. You're still annoyed? Let it go, man.

The original Realm of Chaos books are still the most highly regarded and sought after Warhammer Chaos literature.

Yeah, I'm still sorry that I sold mine back in the 90's.
I just hope they do an MTO reprint like they did for Rogue Trader.

Well, if/when they manage to open the US version of Warhammer World, you'll probably be able to get them from there.

 Pariah Press wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
I am also annoyed they went the boring and highly unchaotic route of all beastmen being goatmen. The really old metal models of snake heads and tails and random mutations were cool.

This happened in 1994. You're still annoyed? Let it go, man.

Lord of the rings has entire university courses and specialist researchers and its almost 100 years old. There are beowulf and Homer scholars. The age of fiction is irrelevant. It's not social justice or environmental law. Time is not a factor in its advancement. GW wouldn't continue to go back and mine their own history to sell new products if it was.

 Dysartes wrote:
Well, if/when they manage to open the US version of Warhammer World, you'll probably be able to get them from there.

They’re already stocked in the Warhammer Cafes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hellebore wrote:

 Pariah Press wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
I am also annoyed they went the boring and highly unchaotic route of all beastmen being goatmen. The really old metal models of snake heads and tails and random mutations were cool.

This happened in 1994. You're still annoyed? Let it go, man.

Lord of the rings has entire university courses and specialist researchers and its almost 100 years old. There are beowulf and Homer scholars. The age of fiction is irrelevant. It's not social justice or environmental law. Time is not a factor in its advancement. GW wouldn't continue to go back and mine their own history to sell new products if it was.

Also, they’re still called Beastmen, not Goatmen.

As an army on its own as opposed to part of the glorious chaos melange, they feel anemic as a range. Introducing old school Beastmen, either mutants or non-Goat would add some welcome visual variety if nothing else.

Personally, the fact that Beastmen are all goatheads doesn't bother me. I listen to a lot of metal, especially black metal, & goatheads in pentagrams are a staple of the genre. It reinforces the raesthetics for me.

Damon.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Also, they’re still called Beastmen, not Goatmen.

And that's why they have Minotaurs and Centaurs.

https://youtu.be/CnFr20EzHg4?si=HQvSZXxh9JOVR9If" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> https://youtu.be/CnFr20EzHg4?si=HQvSZXxh9JOVR9If

Lars Porsenna wrote:
Personally, the fact that Beastmen are all goatheads doesn't bother me. I listen to a lot of metal, especially black metal, & goatheads in pentagrams are a staple of the genre. It reinforces the raesthetics for me.

Damon.

Agree. I feel that beastmens being all bovine or ovine make them having a cohesive look and identity. Yeah i get the argument that chaos "should" be all about unpredictability, but honestly, in practice, this isnt the case since each god have a firmly determined aesthetic. Not too mention that having all kind of beastmen would step on other army toes (chaotic lizardmen for example)

 streetsamurai wrote:

Lars Porsenna wrote:
Personally, the fact that Beastmen are all goatheads doesn't bother me. I listen to a lot of metal, especially black metal, & goatheads in pentagrams are a staple of the genre. It reinforces the raesthetics for me.

Damon.

Agree. I feel that beastmens being all bovine or ovine make them having a cohesive look and identity. Yeah i get the argument that chaos "should" be all about unpredictability, but honestly, in practice, this isnt the case since each god have a firmly determined aesthetic. Not too mention that having all kind of beastmen would step on other army toes (chaotic lizardmen for example)

Plus GW clearly has a design direction going on with only using herbivore herd animals as the base for the Beastmen. It makes them more depraved to have a bunch of creatures known for eating plants to be eating people, and is less obvious than something like evil tiger or gator beastmen.

Didn't they have a lot of goat-headed beastmen because they did the range of Broo for Runequest?

Beastmen as a concept they ripped off from Moorcock where they are much wilder, and I assume the other beastmen forms were an attempt to represent that, but difficult to manage for faction identity. A bit like how the infinite variety of Daemons get condensed into 4 troops, 4 elites, 4 beasts and 4 monsters.

 Hellebore wrote:

 Pariah Press wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
I am also annoyed they went the boring and highly unchaotic route of all beastmen being goatmen. The really old metal models of snake heads and tails and random mutations were cool.

This happened in 1994. You're still annoyed? Let it go, man.

Lord of the rings has entire university courses and specialist researchers and its almost 100 years old. There are beowulf and Homer scholars. The age of fiction is irrelevant. It's not social justice or environmental law. Time is not a factor in its advancement. GW wouldn't continue to go back and mine their own history to sell new products if it was.

My apologies for sniping at you. Carry on with your enjoyment of all things chaotic!

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Also, they’re still called Beastmen, not Goatmen.

And that's why they have Minotaurs and Centaurs.

Goat Headed Centaurs. But fair point on the Minotaurs. I could’ve said Bull and been accurate, but I try to be somewhat mature these days.

And sure, it gives them a strong visual identity based on Pan, Cernunnos and Baphomet, and so playing on Western European myth, legend and religion.

But I still want to see Gribbly Mutants in their ranks.

We’re told Ungor, Gor and Bestigor aren’t especially dexterous outside of war and fisticuffs. Hence their equipment tends toward crude. Mutants, the once-men driven out and exiled could serve as an interesting counterpoint to that. Not necessarily well armed and armoured (living in the forests is still less than ideal for industry). But a rag tag group of Skirmishers armed with farming implements and that could look ace. A rabble driven by revenge on those who shunned them, and anger at not being fully accepted into Beastman society.

 streetsamurai wrote:

Lars Porsenna wrote:
Personally, the fact that Beastmen are all goatheads doesn't bother me. I listen to a lot of metal, especially black metal, & goatheads in pentagrams are a staple of the genre. It reinforces the raesthetics for me.

Damon.

Agree. I feel that beastmens being all bovine or ovine make them having a cohesive look and identity. Yeah i get the argument that chaos "should" be all about unpredictability, but honestly, in practice, this isnt the case since each god have a firmly determined aesthetic. Not too mention that having all kind of beastmen would step on other army toes (chaotic lizardmen for example)

The idea that uncontrolled mutations and the inherently chaotic nature of chaos should value cohesion is an odd perspective. Being a rabble of random mutations itself is a form of cohesion. Turning beastmen from random human animal hybrid mutants with tails, claws, extra heads etc, into just goat men is such a boring direction to take a faction that was created by the concept of chaos itself.

The chaos gods still have random mutations and variety, they just do it within a theme. The same can be true of beastmen, you can have them be goatmen most of the time, but spread mutations throughout, the odd head change and different legs. Goatmen are chaos undivided, not restricted by the personal aesthetics of a chaos god. there are goatmen that are, but not all of them. They are pure children of chaos, unlike the human followers. there are more mutations amongst human followers than the goatmen.

I don't see how lizard looking beastmen steps on lizardmen toes anymore than bretonnians, cathayans, kislevites, norscans step on empire toes for all being human. Or vampires step on khemrians for skeletons, or chaos dwarfs for orc slaves. Lizardmen don't own the IP on looking scaly.

If you can do armour variations on other models, with helmets, beards etc then you can surely do physical variations on the mostly naked goatmen. It's no different to the free companies empire models all looking disparate to have a unit of gors that have some lizard legs, some elephant legs, some bird legs etc. It's an aesthetic variation and is no different.

Currently the free company regiment looks less cohesive than the literal children of chaos. If its good enough for humans, it's definitely good enough for goatmen.

 Shakalooloo wrote:
Turnskins and Gaves, humanborn Beastmen, could make for a nice unit for all the non-caprigor to be chucked into, for a bit of variety. No true Goir want to associate with them, so make them a single unit that an army can take as chaff, as they hopelessly fight to prove themselves worthy of the tribe.

Gaves are fully accepted in the brayherd and may even become chieftains - they're true beastmen born by human parents. Turnskins on the other hand are human mutants who develop a beastmen-like appearence and are merely tolerated.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
Turnskins and Gaves, humanborn Beastmen, could make for a nice unit for all the non-caprigor to be chucked into, for a bit of variety. No true Goir want to associate with them, so make them a single unit that an army can take as chaff, as they hopelessly fight to prove themselves worthy of the tribe.

Gaves are fully accepted in the brayherd and may even become chieftains - they're true beastmen born by human parents. Turnskins on the other hand are human mutants who develop a beastmen-like appearence and are merely tolerated.

Yaah, I couldn't remember which was which, so threw both out to definitely get one right!

 Hellebore wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

Lars Porsenna wrote:
Personally, the fact that Beastmen are all goatheads doesn't bother me. I listen to a lot of metal, especially black metal, & goatheads in pentagrams are a staple of the genre. It reinforces the raesthetics for me.

Damon.

Agree. I feel that beastmens being all bovine or ovine make them having a cohesive look and identity. Yeah i get the argument that chaos "should" be all about unpredictability, but honestly, in practice, this isnt the case since each god have a firmly determined aesthetic. Not too mention that having all kind of beastmen would step on other army toes (chaotic lizardmen for example)

The idea that uncontrolled mutations and the inherently chaotic nature of chaos should value cohesion is an odd perspective. Being a rabble of random mutations itself is a form of cohesion. Turning beastmen from random human animal hybrid mutants with tails, claws, extra heads etc, into just goat men is such a boring direction to take a faction that was created by the concept of chaos itself.

The chaos gods still have random mutations and variety, they just do it within a theme. The same can be true of beastmen, you can have them be goatmen most of the time, but spread mutations throughout, the odd head change and different legs. Goatmen are chaos undivided, not restricted by the personal aesthetics of a chaos god. there are goatmen that are, but not all of them. They are pure children of chaos, unlike the human followers. there are more mutations amongst human followers than the goatmen.

I don't see how lizard looking beastmen steps on lizardmen toes anymore than bretonnians, cathayans, kislevites, norscans step on empire toes for all being human. Or vampires step on khemrians for skeletons, or chaos dwarfs for orc slaves. Lizardmen don't own the IP on looking scaly.

If you can do armour variations on other models, with helmets, beards etc then you can surely do physical variations on the mostly naked goatmen. It's no different to the free companies empire models all looking disparate to have a unit of gors that have some lizard legs, some elephant legs, some bird legs etc. It's an aesthetic variation and is no different.

Currently the free company regiment looks less cohesive than the literal children of chaos. If its good enough for humans, it's definitely good enough for goatmen.

I'm all for adding more mutations to beastmen. But making them "animal farm in the warhammer world "(having all kinds of anthropomorphic animals) is a big no for me.

I think it's more to the classic style more disparate beastmen. As well as old school GW ones, Knightmare miniatures has some really nice classic-style beastmen and chaos mutants.

They don't have to be whole units of distinct creatures - that would be even less chaotic! By all means, have goatbois the vast majoity, and just have the odd one here and there with a bird head, or two left arms, or human feet in palce of hooves. Just a bit here and there, in the style of the olf Chaos Warrior regiment mutations sprue.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

Love how two of those guys don't even get names. What animal was the mace dude blended with?

I want that sea-horseman!

Just spotted this 4th edition Black Orc Big Boss on eBay, was this on M2O and I missed it or was this accidentally shipped to someone ahead of time?

Santtu wrote:
Just spotted this 4th edition Black Orc Big Boss on eBay, was this on M2O and I missed it or was this accidentally shipped to someone ahead of time?

I'd be so over a squad of that era of Black Orcs! Even if we just get this Boss there I'd grab it for sure, I really like those models! The metal ones were great to add to the plastic one to break the monopose look!