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We can comment on the Psychic part as GW has explicitly said "there is no Psychic Phase" and that powers have specific times in each phase that they'reused, so having the phase whenever want once per turn is completely wrong.

Very interesting. I have to say I kind of like that.

 Matrindur wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/03/warhammer-40000-the-anatomy-of-a-new-datasheet/
New article about datasheets

Each model has an OC characteristic, and to determine who controls an objective, you simply count up the total OC of all models within range
Warriors that were previously categorised as Troops will generally have a higher OC than elite units
Vehicles and Monsters also earn a more substantial OC, so Knights and the like can muscle smaller units off objectives

Leadership is much more impactful in the new edition. Your units’ morale is now gauged with a Battle-shock test.
Many factors can force a unit to test for Battle-shock, including being below Half-strength during the Command Phase. Fail and they struggle to capture objectives, use Stratagems, or Fall Back from combat.

Spoiler:

Yea I think we've mostly divined this info. The leadership stuff is helpful - though perhaps it is a little backwards that you fail to run away when you're taking losses. Logically it doesn't make sense, but I like how it promotes softening them up for the charge and then punishing them in melee.

Also, affecting OC will keep hordes from overwhelming objectives too easily. I like that it doesn't turn your unit into a dumpster fire.

And then the 50 pager leak said strats are 'mostly unit upgrades', which this article seems to imply otherwise.

Well the 50 page "leak" turned out to be pretty bogus so no surprise

 Daedalus81 wrote:
The leadership stuff is helpful - though perhaps it is a little backwards that you fail to run away when you're taking losses. Logically it doesn't make sense, but I like how it promotes softening them up for the charge and then punishing them in melee.

Sounds like they're going for morale as a representation of friction- where taking casualties disrupts the unit and makes it harder to command- rather than the turn-tail-and-run of prior editions. Marines, Orks, or Cultists might have no fear of death and stay stuck in melee regardless of casualties, but break up their cohesion enough and then the commander can't get through to tell them 'no seriously, fall back'.

I also like the idea of softening up a unit to render it vulnerable to charging, but it remains to be seen how common it is for units to fail leadership. If you have to take out half the unit for them to then have a 28% chance of failing (6+ on 2D6), it's not going to happen all that often. It might only end up being really relevant to low-Ld armies as was historically the case- though it would be real interesting if they brought back the idea of losing a melee forcing you to test.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/03/warhammer-40000-the-anatomy-of-a-new-datasheet/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=newprofiles03042023

Moreover, weapon profiles are tied to individual units – so a chainsword in the hands of a Space Marine is deadlier and easier to hit with than one held by a snivelling cultist.

They always were (at least since 3rd edition to 6th edition when I stopped). Did they stop being more deadly in the hands of a marine vs in the hands of a cultist in 8th edition and on? Or is this their marketing team moving chairs around the room and boasting they can seat the same number of people?

 warboss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/03/warhammer-40000-the-anatomy-of-a-new-datasheet/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=newprofiles03042023

Moreover, weapon profiles are tied to individual units – so a chainsword in the hands of a Space Marine is deadlier and easier to hit with than one held by a snivelling cultist.

They always were (at least since 3rd edition to 6th edition when I stopped). Did they stop being more deadly in the hands of a marine vs in the hands of a cultist in 8th edition and on? Or is this their marketing team moving chairs around the room and boasting they can seat the same number of people?

I would guess the latter.

Woo. A lot going on here.

Least noteworthy:
Not-explicitly-Primaris LT (though obviously the armor style is phobos). Hate the model a bit. Don't like all the specific-foe styled stuff. Combi flamer is interesting, as its more an old style boltgun.

Real article-
OC is per model in range. This has a number of effects, including multiple units holding objectives. Also just slipping one guy barely into range of the objective isn't going to do much.

Leadership works as expected for tests. Really like that it screws up command rather than blinking other models out of existence.
That's frankly amazing for GW.

Weapon profiles- big take away here is the assault primaris guy just has a bolt pistol. The heady smell of trivial differences between bolters being set on fire is giving me hope.

Just having Attacks for ranged weapons is also great. A lot of dumb design space (like that stupid ork weapon type) just got solved.

Voss wrote:
Weapon profiles- big take away here is the assault primaris guy just has a bolt pistol. The heady smell of trivial differences between bolters being set of fire is giving me hope.

Oh snap I missed that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/03/warhammer-40000-the-anatomy-of-a-new-datasheet/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=newprofiles03042023

Moreover, weapon profiles are tied to individual units – so a chainsword in the hands of a Space Marine is deadlier and easier to hit with than one held by a snivelling cultist.

They always were (at least since 3rd edition to 6th edition when I stopped). Did they stop being more deadly in the hands of a marine vs in the hands of a cultist in 8th edition and on? Or is this their marketing team moving chairs around the room and boasting they can seat the same number of people?

Well in this system there is no S:User so people will see a chainsword with S3 making it 'look' weaker. It could also be that the extra attack goes away for weaker models or that marines get AP while others don't ( as per now, but it is no longer an 'Astartes' chainsword ).

I’m glad LD rolls are being changed to rolling high, so I don’t have to explain to people why setting aside your bad dice that believe roll low for LD tests is actually cheating.

Voss wrote:

Weapon profiles- big take away here is the assault primaris guy just has a bolt pistol. The heady smell of trivial differences between bolters being set of fire is giving me hope.

The preview appears to be for just Intercessors, not Assault Intercessors. The Intercessor Sergeant pictured next to the picture with the weapon profile has a regular Bolt Pistol, the same as he does using the 9th edition Intercessor datasheet. The Bolt Pistol he's holding is notable smaller than a Heavy Bolt Pistol, which always has a grip for a second hand.

 AduroT wrote:
I’m glad LD rolls are being changed to rolling high, so I don’t have to explain to people why setting aside your bad dice that believe roll low for LD tests is actually cheating.

Superstition isn't cheating...so setting aside dice you believe roll isn't any more cheating as reserving dices you believe roll good for saving for clutch moments.

Now having loaded dice is but roll low, roll good doesn't matter as such. All same actually makes cheating easier.

Oh no, the best thing about primaris was the clean armour. The tendency to fill miniatures with loads of pointless details just makes them look worse. It's a poor design route and kind of the same mentality of filling everything with skulls for the sake of it.

Pass on this.

Termis though look nice and clean.

 Asmodai wrote:

Voss wrote:

Weapon profiles- big take away here is the assault primaris guy just has a bolt pistol. The heady smell of trivial differences between bolters being set of fire is giving me hope.

The preview appears to be for just Intercessors, not Assault Intercessors. The Intercessor Sergeant pictured next to the picture with the weapon profile has a regular Bolt Pistol, the same as he does using the 9th edition Intercessor datasheet. The Bolt Pistol he's holding is notable smaller than a Heavy Bolt Pistol, which always has a grip for a second hand.

Doh.

 Asmodai wrote:

Voss wrote:

Weapon profiles- big take away here is the assault primaris guy just has a bolt pistol. The heady smell of trivial differences between bolters being set of fire is giving me hope.

The preview appears to be for just Intercessors, not Assault Intercessors. The Intercessor Sergeant pictured next to the picture with the weapon profile has a regular Bolt Pistol, the same as he does using the 9th edition Intercessor datasheet. The Bolt Pistol he's holding is notable smaller than a Heavy Bolt Pistol, which always has a grip for a second hand.

Well, puckernuts.

I suppose its apt that the proliferation of 'bolt' type weapons was so severe I can't actually tell if consolidation is happening or not.

How does Leadership work?

Leadership is much more impactful in the new edition. Your units’ morale is now gauged with a Battle-shock test. Many factors can force a unit to test for Battle-shock, including being below Half-strength during the Command Phase. Fail and they struggle to capture objectives, use Stratagems, or Fall Back from combat.

You’ll also notice that Leadership now counts upwards. Our Intercessor has LD 6+ – which is equivalent to his old value of 8.

Let’s all take a moment to celebrate GW giving us Morale rules that encourage larger squads.

Also look forward to repeatedly rolling for a unit for the rest of the game once it starts rolling due to causalities.

 alextroy wrote:

How does Leadership work?

Leadership is much more impactful in the new edition. Your units’ morale is now gauged with a Battle-shock test. Many factors can force a unit to test for Battle-shock, including being below Half-strength during the Command Phase. Fail and they struggle to capture objectives, use Stratagems, or Fall Back from combat.

You’ll also notice that Leadership now counts upwards. Our Intercessor has LD 6+ – which is equivalent to his old value of 8.

Let’s all take a moment to celebrate GW giving us Morale rules that encourage larger squads.

Also look forward to repeatedly rolling for a unit for the rest of the game once it starts rolling due to causalities.

I'd take bets that this is one of the things that Marines either ignore outright or are greatly resistant against...

Voss wrote:
Woo. A lot going on here.

Least noteworthy:
Not-explicitly-Primaris LT (though obviously the armor style is phobos). Hate the model a bit. Don't like all the specific-foe styled stuff. Combi flamer is interesting, as its more an old style boltgun.

Neither current Phobos Lt has "Primaris" in their name on their datasheets either, just the Primaris Keyword. Just like the Bolt Pistol, that's neither a change nor noteworthy. Also, the combi-flamer matches the one on the Black Templar Marshal.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Oh no, the best thing about primaris was the clean armour. The tendency to fill miniatures with loads of pointless details just makes them look worse. It's a poor design route and kind of the same mentality of filling everything with skulls for the sake of it.

Pass on this.

Termis though look nice and clean.

I actually thought the biggest failure point on Phobos was how clean it looked. The Vanguard Company are supposed to be operating independent of the Chapter's forces for weeks if not months or years at a time. They should be dirty. They should have repairs and ad hoc stuff.

Not all Phobos are Vanguard, Kan. Battle and Reserve Companies maintain their own Phobos armor for when the need arises on campaign. It's easier to convert Phobos to look ad hoc than it is to "unconvert" them, so to speak.

I'm loving the new Lt, since I already added Xenos trophies and skulls to most of my special Characters, and I play 3rd Company Ultramarines, Scourge of the Xenos.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

How does Leadership work?

Leadership is much more impactful in the new edition. Your units’ morale is now gauged with a Battle-shock test. Many factors can force a unit to test for Battle-shock, including being below Half-strength during the Command Phase. Fail and they struggle to capture objectives, use Stratagems, or Fall Back from combat.

You’ll also notice that Leadership now counts upwards. Our Intercessor has LD 6+ – which is equivalent to his old value of 8.

Let’s all take a moment to celebrate GW giving us Morale rules that encourage larger squads.

Also look forward to repeatedly rolling for a unit for the rest of the game once it starts rolling due to causalities.

I'd take bets that this is one of the things that Marines either ignore outright or are greatly resistant against...

We can hope, probably in vain, that GW decides that a good leadership score is enough morale mitigation for marines.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Oh no, the best thing about primaris was the clean armour. The tendency to fill miniatures with loads of pointless details just makes them look worse. It's a poor design route and kind of the same mentality of filling everything with skulls for the sake of it.

Pass on this.

Termis though look nice and clean.

I actually thought the biggest failure point on Phobos was how clean it looked. The Vanguard Company are supposed to be operating independent of the Chapter's forces for weeks if not months or years at a time. They should be dirty. They should have repairs and ad hoc stuff.

Most phobos guys have more pouches and such then the basic intercesors. Officers also tend to have more stuff on them as well. This guy might be one click higher on the “random crap stuck on” scale then he should, but he’s not outrageously off the mark from what I’d expect.

If I do end up with a copy (and probably will if he’s in the box) I think cleaning up his knife would help. Maybe a headswap. Otherwise, I like him.

 alextroy wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

How does Leadership work?

Leadership is much more impactful in the new edition. Your units’ morale is now gauged with a Battle-shock test. Many factors can force a unit to test for Battle-shock, including being below Half-strength during the Command Phase. Fail and they struggle to capture objectives, use Stratagems, or Fall Back from combat.

You’ll also notice that Leadership now counts upwards. Our Intercessor has LD 6+ – which is equivalent to his old value of 8.

Let’s all take a moment to celebrate GW giving us Morale rules that encourage larger squads.

Also look forward to repeatedly rolling for a unit for the rest of the game once it starts rolling due to causalities.

I'd take bets that this is one of the things that Marines either ignore outright or are greatly resistant against...

We can hope, probably in vain, that GW decides that a good leadership score is enough morale mitigation for marines.

Sure, hope dies last, but i guess some variant of ATSKNF will eventually surface

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I'm loving the new Lt, since I already added Xenos trophies and skulls to most of my special Characters, and I play 3rd Company Ultramarines, Scourge of the Xenos.

It’s a good day to be from the 3rd.

I like the new lt it gives him some character, but i would use him only for ultra's.So not for the rest of the chapters.

 alextroy wrote:
We can hope, probably in vain, that GW decides that a good leadership score is enough morale mitigation for marines.

Absent modifiers a 6+ succeeds 72% of the time. I think marines will have a reroll, which gives ~8% fail. LD mods will be able to threaten marines, but otherwise they will be relatively solid.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Not all Phobos are Vanguard, Kan. Battle and Reserve Companies maintain their own Phobos armor for when the need arises on campaign.

Not enough to field for the entire company. Raven Guard are unique in that regard, having the capability to field 1st, 2nd, and 10th in Phobos.

Or at least that's what the Raven Guard book said at the outset, but they'll probably retcon it to be Guilliman's idea like the Moritat or the Shrike pattern Bolt Sniper Rifle.

It's easier to convert Phobos to look ad hoc than it is to "unconvert" them, so to speak.

Disagree. A lot of things that can be done to create a more ad hoc or "lengthy campaigner" look could be added via weapon loadouts for units and characters, rules, or even stuff as simple as damaged alternate bits.

 skeleton wrote:
I like the new lt it gives him some character, but i would use him only for ultra's.So not for the rest of the chapters.

Not going to lie, if I wasn’t an ultra player I’d be a lot less impressed with him.

I liked that with indominus box you could leave the necron stuff off the bases, and just have foe-agnostic minis. This is more baked in.

While plenty of chapters have tangled with the nids, it’s not universal. Or if, for example, you already have ork parts splattered across your army, would be a bit of a disconnect.

Chapter specific starters were a thing for 6/7th, but not a good thing IMHO.

Time to start panicky rumors that all 3rd-7th edition marines are being taken OOP?