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 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Interesting... the Lascannon on the new Dreadnought isn't Twin-linked and instead has two attacks.

And is a considerably restrained D6+1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


NINE codexes in a 6 month window. Bodes well for things being written together - at least for this bunch.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
One disappointing thing is that attacker and defender cards potentially are just mirrored. Oh well.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

NINE codexes in a 6 month window. Bodes well for things being written together - at least for this bunch.

Three seasons so 9 months not 6

 Matrindur wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

NINE codexes in a 6 month window. Bodes well for things being written together - at least for this bunch.

Three seasons so 9 months not 6

I think the new models for these releases will be mostly (mostly, not entirely) Lieutenant-equivalent models because the new edition seems to need them, with the odd port from finecast or missing troop type being thrown in from time to time, but it's a brisk pace nonetheless. On the other hand, 40k now has about 24 supported factions depending how you count them, so they need to crank them out at that speed for almost the whole edition if they want to give each faction a book in a three-year window.

Minor gripe, but I really wish they’d give us the lore, rules and campaign stuff as separate books in the box. I don’t want a hulking great book like the last two editions, but I DO want all the sexy models.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
The dread looks oddly-proportioned, imho mostly due to the inexplicably dainty ankles.

Nah, it has upright T-Rex syndrome: proportionate legs, tiny arms. The Redemptor body wasn't designed for "in-shoulder" weapon mounts.

Platuan4th is correct. The legs appear to be the exact same as the original Redemptor. But without the arms to balance out the proportions, it comes across as leggy. The tactical rock also isn't helping things.

I think it would have looked much better if the designer had gone with Imperial Knight or Leviathan Dreadnought sort of arms where the weapons were the forearms instead of the entire arm. Otherwise, I think more of a crouching pose would have been better to slightly conceal it. Adding a rock was the opposite. This sort of thing worked on box naugts because they were stumpy. So everything felt proportional.

I'm sure once it is seen in person, it won't be as bad. And over time, as people get used to it, the model will stand out even less. Especially when around other Redemptors. But I do think there were a lot of missed opportunities to do a better job.

Launch box looks pretty great - going to be a hard set to resist tbh. Have now officially built up enough hope that I'm very ready to be disappointed - so far every datasheet previewed has been nice and concise, it's going to be hard for GW to manage to mess up and make a full A4 sheet sized datasheet full of restrictions on who can have what like plague marines.

Also, playing back the what's in the box vid a few times, looks like the captain has no alternate options at all, and as he shares the joint sprue with the winged prime probably won't get a separate release just like relic shield captain/tachyon overlord from 9th. Librarian might have a helmet option, there is a single extra part slightly bigger than his head I can't ID on the sprue pic (and a weird shaped mould of helmet would be required to fit under the hood). Terminators are shown being built with a helmeted sergeant, given that they are mono pose bodies and the head was positioned correctly to aim down his bolter this seems like confirmation enough that they have some spare parts - won't hold my breath on any wargear (chainfist) options though.

I hope Eldar / Dark Eldar not being early means they will have time to actually get around to putting everything into plastic that is currently missing.

Loopstah wrote:
I hope Eldar / Dark Eldar not being early means they will have time to actually get around to putting everything into plastic that is currently missing.

 Insularum wrote:
Launch box looks pretty great - going to be a hard set to resist tbh. Have now officially built up enough hope that I'm very ready to be disappointed - so far every datasheet previewed has been nice and concise, it's going to be hard for GW to manage to mess up and make a full A4 sheet sized datasheet full of restrictions on who can have what like plague marines.

Also, playing back the what's in the box vid a few times, looks like the captain has no alternate options at all, and as he shares the joint sprue with the winged prime probably won't get a separate release just like relic shield captain/tachyon overlord from 9th. Librarian might have a helmet option, there is a single extra part slightly bigger than his head I can't ID on the sprue pic (and a weird shaped mould of helmet would be required to fit under the hood). Terminators are shown being built with a helmeted sergeant, given that they are mono pose bodies and the head was positioned correctly to aim down his bolter this seems like confirmation enough that they have some spare parts - won't hold my breath on any wargear (chainfist) options though.

Especially for the marine side, I’m holding my breath for what will transition from easy build starter kits to full boxes.

With indominus, we had some units like the bikes not get a full kit, where others got a few more options. Like the assault intercessors had their sage get pretty much full access to the armory, BGV get a spare pistol, etc. But from a modeling perspective, tons of variation with the full kit.

Here, I’m wondering where they are going with terminators, and more importantly the sternguard.

And from a personal POV, as I have a copy of the GL/powerfist TDA captain, if he’s still going to be good with the rules. If so, the captain from this box will probably be kitbashed into a chaplain.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
The dread looks oddly-proportioned, imho mostly due to the inexplicably dainty ankles.

Nah, it has upright T-Rex syndrome: proportionate legs, tiny arms. The Redemptor body wasn't designed for "in-shoulder" weapon mounts.

Ah, I disagree. The redemptors have very goofy leg design. The knees down are way too shriveled on all varieties IMO. If they had one large greave from top of knee down that were wider they would look much better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Interesting... the Lascannon on the new Dreadnought isn't Twin-linked and instead has two attacks.

And is a considerably restrained D6+1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoiler:

 Matrindur wrote:

NINE codexes in a 6 month window. Bodes well for things being written together - at least for this bunch.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
One disappointing thing is that attacker and defender cards potentially are just mirrored. Oh well.

Fall + Winter + Spring = 9 month window, so likely and average of one per month. They likely will dump the first two simulataniously but they also take a month off around Christmas

Loopstah wrote:
I hope Eldar / Dark Eldar not being early means they will have time to actually get around to putting everything into plastic that is currently missing.

That would be nice!

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
I hope Eldar / Dark Eldar not being early means they will have time to actually get around to putting everything into plastic that is currently missing.

That would be nice!

Hey Tyranids are still hoping that the last of their finecast get put into plastic and they are the poster-child launch army for this whole edition

I'd be happy for them if they did, its nice being a edition poster child and getting a lot of releases, was great for Necrons for a bit.

Given the sheer volume of new stuff for both sides at this point, I am a little nervous about how many more kits might be in their future.

 vipoid wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
I hope Eldar / Dark Eldar not being early means they will have time to actually get around to putting everything into plastic that is currently missing.

Honestly, I half expect a single 'Eldar codex' with all the datasheets and then 4 detachment types with unit restrictions:
Craftworlds with reroll shenanigans as the overarching ability, (leans toward aspect warriors/ghost stuff/guardians)
Real Space Raid with...the ability to take the units you can already take if you take them (some sort of double think ability that makes that sub-factionalization worse) (leans toward dark eldar/corsairs)
Corsair fleet that can take anything
and then Ynnarri that can also take anything, but does death related things.

Though Loopstah does have a point- that big blob of DA/Orks/Custodes/Tau and Chaos Marines coming together in Spring are probably getting 'one hero' releases. Someone might draw a long straw out of that group, but given Orks and Chaos had moderately chunky releases last time, I have strong suspicions as to which way that skews (and it isn't Tau). For Craftworlds and Dark Eldar, I'd put odds on more Aspect Warriors and all the dark eldar dead resin crap merely being rotated back on sale (for a limited time only).

Oh boy... lot to cover.

*takes in massive breath*

1. The new Terminator Captain is perfectly fine.
2. The new Terminator Librarian is perfectly fine.
3. The new Phobos Lieutenant is a Phobos Lieutenant. Goody for him.
4. The new Gravis Apothecary is absolutely awesome. The only downside is that they've made him a completely distinct entity from the regular Taciticus Armour Apothecary. They do different things. This is the same problem I have with making psychic powers model-dependant rather than faction-dependant. Want Power X? Well that's only available on the Primaris Librarian, whereas Power Y is only on the First Born Libby, and Power Z only comes with the Terminator Libby. If they want to have a different type of Apothecary, that's fine, but that should be an upgrade - I take an Apothecary and must upgrade him to either a Biologis or a Medicae (pulling a name out of thin air), not a whole separate unit type and model. So frustrating given the model is so cool.
5. The new Terminators are just scale-creep. Don't care.
6. The Infernus Squad look cool, but they're an odd thing to make a troop unit around. It'd be like making Hellblasters a regular troop unit. They seem too specialised for such a generalist battlefield role. Also we call the members of an Intercessor Squad "Intercessors". What do we call members of an Infernus Squad? Infernusses?? Infernos?
7. Primaris Veterans are quite nice. They've got that extra relic Bladeguard-y detail that I really like, and lose a lot of the tacticool nonsense that Phobos Marines suffer from. Of course, if Combi-Weapons really do have a one-size-fits-all profile in 10th then they'll be absolute balls.
8. The Ballistus Dread is so fething cool! As Grotsnik correctly pointed out, the fact that it doesn't really have arms makes it look taller and lankier than it otherwise would, and it is by far the most "BattleTech" of any Dread GW has made (even the Rifleman Dread!), but I still love it. I love Dreads, always have, and this one is great. I wonder if a full kit will have different weapon options?

9. The Tyranid Prime has a boring pose and his wings are coming outta the wrong joint.
10. The Neurotyrant is fething amazing. Surprised at its size - the CGI trailer gave off nearly Silent King levels of size - but either way it's still an awesome looking beastie. Nice to have a new Leader Beast.
11. The Screamer Killer's face has strong Predator vibes. It's weird. As an update to one of my fav models (I have two OG Carnifexes, and one of them is made of lead!) I am greatly pleased by this revision. No so pleased with hits stats though. T9? Why is he the same toughness as a Rhino. It should be tougher than a Rhino. Makes me worry what's going to happen to the smaller Carnifex kit (T8? T7? ).
12. Leapers have grown on me. I still would rather a plastic Lictor, but these minis are fine.
13. Termagants are Termagants. I need more of them like I need a hole in the head.
14. Neurogaunts have an extremely unusual paint job that makes various bits of them look like bionic implants rather than grown creatures. Part of me wants to paint all those bits up metallic and give 'em the odd bit of technical gubbinz and call them a heretical Magos Biologis experiment gone wrong. Honestly not a fan. They feel like the least necessary unit added to the game (a meatshield Tyranid gribbly unit... like Termagants and Hormagaunts already are?). I liked the recolour that someone here did of them (in the 'Nid thread, I believe).
15. Barbgaunts. Hmm... Well, as someone who was really hoping for a brand new Biovore model that doesn't suck (4th time's a charm!) these were a disappointment. These models suffer the most from the "push fit" design, as they look like 2D miniatures that fit into slotta-bases. There's so much real estate on the base that's empty. We know what they can do with plastics technology, so these being so squished up really doesn't make sense. They should be spread out like Hive/Tyrant Guard.
16. The Psychophage is a complete flip on the Neurotyrant, where I thought it was going to be small but it's the biggest thing in the box! I love it. I think it looks amazing.

17. The fact that the 4th Tyrannic War Crusade book is part of the core rulebook (in this box) is interesting. Makes it feel like the free adventure you get in the core rulebook of an RPG.
18. Colour me abso-fething-lutely surprised that the mission cards are in the box. I had that pegged as Day-1 DLC.

19. The terrain rules have a lot of issues that don't make any sense on first glance. Why does plunging fire only work from ruins and nothing else? Why does plunging fire stop working the second your target takes his foot off the ground and stands on a box? Why are forests infinitely high???
20. The "Desperate Breakout" thing we've heard about proves that GW learnt nothing from 9th Ed Morale/Combat Attrition. They've added yet another non-scaling set of rules that instantly kill models rather than causing damage to units. More proof that their methodology for writing rules isn't iterative but more akin to "throw gak at the wall and hope it sticks".

I've also come around on the whole detachment thing. I think it allows for very easy creation of custom themed armies. I think that removing so many relics and warlord traits and especially psychic powers is a massive mistake that will reduce flavour and options and fun overall (and say goodbye to paid upgrades like Dermic Symbiosis or Chapter Master...), but overall I think it has the potential to work. There's a real opportunity to make something great here, but we know what we say about GW and opportunities.

And finally: Just another reminder that one-size-fits-all rules for Combi-Weapons is pants-on-head stupid.

*starts breathing normally again*

Was there any word regarding FW units in 10th edition? I didn't see it listed as a set. Possibly integrated into each relevant faction?

Hmm...I wonder if the screamer killer being a lower toughness is a result of there being possibly no Anti-Monster weapons.

 Sarigar wrote:
Was there any word regarding FW units in 10th edition? I didn't see it listed as a set. Possibly integrated into each relevant faction?

They said both FW and Legends would get PDFs.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Oh boy... lot to cover.

*takes in massive breath*

Spoiler:

1. The new Terminator Captain is perfectly fine.
2. The new Terminator Librarian is perfectly fine.
3. The new Phobos Lieutenant is a Phobos Lieutenant. Goody for him.
4. The new Gravis Apothecary is absolutely awesome. The only downside is that they've made him a completely distinct entity from the regular Taciticus Armour Apothecary. They do different things. This is the same problem I have with making psychic powers model-dependant rather than faction-dependant. Want Power X? Well that's only available on the Primaris Librarian, whereas Power Y is only on the First Born Libby, and Power Z only comes with the Terminator Libby. If they want to have a different type of Apothecary, that's fine, but that should be an upgrade - I take an Apothecary and must upgrade him to either a Biologis or a Medicae (pulling a name out of thin air), not a whole separate unit type and model. So frustrating given the model is so cool.
5. The new Terminators are just scale-creep. Don't care.
6. The Infernus Squad look cool, but they're an odd thing to make a troop unit around. It'd be like making Hellblasters a regular troop unit. They seem too specialised for such a generalist battlefield role. Also we call the members of an Intercessor Squad "Intercessors". What do we call members of an Infernus Squad? Infernusses?? Infernos?
7. Primaris Veterans are quite nice. They've got that extra relic Bladeguard-y detail that I really like, and lose a lot of the tacticool nonsense that Phobos Marines suffer from. Of course, if Combi-Weapons really do have a one-size-fits-all profile in 10th then they'll be absolute balls.
8. The Ballistus Dread is so fething cool! As Grotsnik correctly pointed out, the fact that it doesn't really have arms makes it look taller and lankier than it otherwise would, and it is by far the most "BattleTech" of any Dread GW has made (even the Rifleman Dread!), but I still love it. I love Dreads, always have, and this one is great. I wonder if a full kit will have different weapon options?

9. The Tyranid Prime has a boring pose and his wings are coming outta the wrong joint.
10. The Neurotyrant is fething amazing. Surprised at its size - the CGI trailer gave off nearly Silent King levels of size - but either way it's still an awesome looking beastie. Nice to have a new Leader Beast.
11. The Screamer Killer's face has strong Predator vibes. It's weird. As an update to one of my fav models (I have two OG Carnifexes, and one of them is made of lead!) I am greatly pleased by this revision. No so pleased with hits stats though. T9? Why is he the same toughness as a Rhino. It should be tougher than a Rhino. Makes me worry what's going to happen to the smaller Carnifex kit (T8? T7? ).
12. Leapers have grown on me. I still would rather a plastic Lictor, but these minis are fine.
13. Termagants are Termagants. I need more of them like I need a hole in the head.
14. Neurogaunts have an extremely unusual paint job that makes various bits of them look like bionic implants rather than grown creatures. Part of me wants to paint all those bits up metallic and give 'em the odd bit of technical gubbinz and call them a heretical Magos Biologis experiment gone wrong. Honestly not a fan. They feel like the least necessary unit added to the game (a meatshield Tyranid gribbly unit... like Termagants and Hormagaunts already are?). I liked the recolour that someone here did of them (in the 'Nid thread, I believe).
15. Barbgaunts. Hmm... Well, as someone who was really hoping for a brand new Biovore model that doesn't suck (4th time's a charm!) these were a disappointment. These models suffer the most from the "push fit" design, as they look like 2D miniatures that fit into slotta-bases. There's so much real estate on the base that's empty. We know what they can do with plastics technology, so these being so squished up really doesn't make sense. They should be spread out like Hive/Tyrant Guard.
16. The Psychophage is a complete flip on the Neurotyrant, where I thought it was going to be small but it's the biggest thing in the box! I love it. I think it looks amazing.

17. The fact that the 4th Tyrannic War Crusade book is part of the core rulebook (in this box) is interesting. Makes it feel like the free adventure you get in the core rulebook of an RPG.
18. Colour me abso-fething-lutely surprised that the mission cards are in the box. I had that pegged as Day-1 DLC.

19. The terrain rules have a lot of issues that don't make any sense on first glance. Why does plunging fire only work from ruins and nothing else? Why does plunging fire stop working the second your target takes his foot off the ground and stands on a box? Why are forests infinitely high???
20. The "Desperate Breakout" thing we've heard about proves that GW learnt nothing from 9th Ed Morale/Combat Attrition. They've added yet another non-scaling set of rules that instantly kill models rather than causing damage to units. More proof that their methodology for writing rules isn't iterative but more akin to "throw gak at the wall and hope it sticks".

I've also come around on the whole detachment thing. I think it allows for very easy creation of custom themed armies. I think that removing so many relics and warlord traits and especially psychic powers is a massive mistake that will reduce flavour and options and fun overall (and say goodbye to paid upgrades like Dermic Symbiosis or Chapter Master...), but overall I think it has the potential to work. There's a real opportunity to make something great here, but we know what we say about GW and opportunities.

And finally: Just another reminder that one-size-fits-all rules for Combi-Weapons is pants-on-head stupid.

*starts breathing normally again*

Inferni?

Infernii!!!

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Hmm...I wonder if the screamer killer being a lower toughness is a result of there being possibly no Anti-Monster weapons.

Which seems like an artificial design limitation brought about by a lack of forethought. Thankfully that's never plagued GW in the past.

In all seriousness, as stupid as there being no "Anti-Monster" weapons sounds (Lascannons are very particular, it seems! ) it would kind of solve that issue without needing more rules or exceptions.

I feel like it'd be more silly to try to figure out which weapons in every faction are specifically good against carnifexes and not dreadnoughts (or tyranid warriors, for that matter). If you want to bring back the distinction between monsters and vehicles then "monsters are lower toughness baseline but don't care if a weapon is designed to crack tanks" seems reasonable enough.

If that is the design though I might worry about monsters just not being very good.

Gotta remember the only anti-vehicle weapon (by rules) is chainfists so far I think?

We have seen like 0.1% of weapons if that

I’m so glad HBMC posted something - complete silence with a new edition launch.

I was concerned for his well-being!

edit: bleh

I might spam the fruit of my labours here as well:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I really feel like you should get 50% odds to complete the gambit if you have all four corners; that's going to be really hard to do in a game you're losing. Not much point to the system existing if people who go for it are rarely going to get the points even if they do everything right.

The more reliable it is the more you can build around it. I'm unsure if that would be a good idea or not.

The one gambit we've seen so far strikes a good blance I think, it's not something you will ever build your list around trying to achieve, but it is a good incentive for you to not overcommit your forces to a random slugfest in the middle of the table and leave some behind to answer the gambit if necessary.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I feel like it'd be more silly to try to figure out which weapons in every faction are specifically good against carnifexes and not dreadnoughts (or tyranid warriors, for that matter). If you want to bring back the distinction between monsters and vehicles then "monsters are lower toughness baseline but don't care if a weapon is designed to crack tanks" seems reasonable enough.

If that is the design though I might worry about monsters just not being very good.

Carnifexes are also very small monsters. The question here is what are going to be the stats for things like Exocrines or Tyrannofexes that are considerably bigger

 Tyran wrote:
Carnifexes are also very small monsters.

This made me feel incredibly old, somehow.