Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Even with their Invulnerable, small arms fire has never had much of a problem blasting Daemons back from whence they came. That’s my main concern. Most infantry are T3/4 W1. Not exactly a stubborn understain on the gusset of reality.

Well, the old FRFSRF is down from it's prior version, so a 20 man of Cadians with 2 GL and 2 autoguns shooting 20 T3 5++ at 24" does...

12 * .5 * .666 * .666 = 2.7
36 * .5 * .5 * .666 = 6

Then on your test you gain 2 back for a total of 6.7. The LD appears to be 6 or 7 and with a +1 in your territory it should be pretty reliable.

Let's say you instead got cover --

12 * .5 * .666 * .5= 2
36 * .5 * .5 * .5 = 4.5

A total of 6.5

So the difference is minimal AND the rules create an interaction with other players where you can do more damage to them by way of battleshock on top of healing bigger models.

Obviously the unit needs to survive, but that's a counterplay that the opponent has to ensure.

My. Only issue with the shadow of chaos is that it’s going to impact things that it probably shouldn’t. How is this having the same impact on necrons and tau as it does human/eldar?

And a little jealousy that they get creeping board control doom, but the nid’s shadow of the warp is just a once a game check. But I get that the corruption of the table is more core to deamons.

Voss wrote:

 Matrindur wrote:

An objective is only captured when the total Objective Control of nearby models exceeds that of their opponent, so a unit with OC 0 will effectively ‘tie’ even when faced with a complete lack of challengers

And we get confirmation that OC 0 units can't capture objectives

That's actually really good. It means they can cut the paragraph of special rules for spore mines, brainless servitors & the like.
As long as they can't be affected by '+1 to OC' abilities.

That’s not how I read it. I think OC 0 can take an objective, it just can’t take the “sticky” one that daemons just walked away from as the OC number isn’t higher than the daemon one. An uncontested objective may be taken. That’s how I read it, may be wrong.

 Nevelon wrote:
My. Only issue with the shadow of chaos is that it’s going to impact things that it probably shouldn’t. How is this having the same impact on necrons and tau as it does human/eldar?

And a little jealousy that they get creeping board control doom, but the nid’s shadow of the warp is just a once a game check. But I get that the corruption of the table is more core to deamons.

Nids get reliability of leadership, which makes the other end of Daemons a non-starter most of the time. On the flip side Nids don't really want to activate SitW and give Daemons more healing.

So weirdly Daemons and Nids cancel each other out, which is kind of neat. There's still pockets where it works - if you pay attention to when they're outside of the shadow of chaos.

But if the daemons walked away from it, wouldn't the OC number be set to 0, as there's no one guarding it? I'm pretty sure only Cadians and similar units can capture and move on too, so a objective that no one is guarding would just go back to unclaimed.

 bullyboy wrote:
That’s not how I read it. I think OC 0 can take an objective, it just can’t take the “sticky” one that daemons just walked away from as the OC number isn’t higher than the daemon one. An uncontested objective may be taken. That’s how I read it, may be wrong.

I think you're right, but it's weird to say 0 > nothing.

Next up will be SoB!

It's nice to see some bigger spells. Ultimately it looks like 2MW is the goal with some small amount of incidental damage. Be'Lakor is basically 12 dice fishing for 6s, but that's pretty risky if each 1 is a MW.

I really want to know more on why his auras are psychic.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
It's nice to see some bigger spells. Ultimately it looks like 2MW is the goal with some small amount of incidental damage. Be'Lakor is basically 12 dice fishing for 6s, but that's pretty risky if each 1 is a MW.

I really want to know more on why his auras are psychic.

Wonder if by extension stuff that targets psykers traditionally will get the bonus against a unit under the influence of the psychic aura? Might give some weird niche units a bit of a boost.

Dudeface wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
It's nice to see some bigger spells. Ultimately it looks like 2MW is the goal with some small amount of incidental damage. Be'Lakor is basically 12 dice fishing for 6s, but that's pretty risky if each 1 is a MW.

I really want to know more on why his auras are psychic.

Wonder if by extension stuff that targets psykers traditionally will get the bonus against a unit under the influence of the psychic aura? Might give some weird niche units a bit of a boost.

Boosts for some, and the possibility for e.g. blanks like Sisters of Silence or Culexus Assassins etc. to be unaffected.

Ahhh ok. Yea that makes a lot of sense now. Thanks guys!


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Sorry I should revise this -- that daemon unit won't take a battleshock without taking a few more wounds. So cover would be better as a direct consequence. A 10 man would recover though. There's lots of edge cases to consider.

 Nevelon wrote:
My. Only issue with the shadow of chaos is that it’s going to impact things that it probably shouldn’t. How is this having the same impact on necrons and tau as it does human/eldar?

The presence of a full-scale daemonic incursion should result in reality buckling at the sheer impossibility of it all.

Of all the army rules seen so far, this is easily the most fitting. Certainly more than Oaths of fething Moment...

Marines are definitely the most boring of the bunch.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Marines are definitely the most boring of the bunch.

Eh. None of the first four really tickled me much. Orders were predictable, if probably the most flexible so far. Daemons have the most impact on the strategic game.

The main advantage for Oaths is there are no dependencies or qualifications whatsoever. It just always works, with no downsides (CSM), no character requirements (guard & necrons), unit proximity or range (guard and nids, for synapse). Also no real counterplay, whereas the daemon ability innately pushes both sides to take objectives . You just have to accept that Marines are going to pick one of your units to bully- you can hide something important, but then you're wasting its turn hiding, and they'll pick something else.

Edit- oops. confusing faction and detachment ability for necrons. RP is fine, if also dull.

Marines - Super reliable, but so far the most limited, as it’s only “cast” on a single unit each turn.

Tyranids - Somewhat swingy, but potentially game winning, as you stand a not unreasonable chance of preventing your opponent scoring VP’s for a turn amongst other things

Chaos - Potentially hazardous, but if you’re open to the risk decent rewards, as the trick goes off even if you suffer those Mortal Wounds

Necrons - Lovely. No activation needed, always on, helps a great deal with army resilience.

Imperial Guard - Don’t actually have one Orders are something different it seems.

Daemons - I think I like it. Will need to see how much that board control is needed for other abilities and Stratagems etc.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Marines - Super reliable, but so far the most limited, as it’s only “cast” on a single unit each turn.

Tyranids - Somewhat swingy, but potentially game winning, as you stand a not unreasonable chance of preventing your opponent scoring VP’s for a turn amongst other things

I'm puzzled as to how a once-per-turn ability is more limited than a once-per-game ability.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Necrons - Lovely. No activation needed, always on, helps a great deal with army resilience.

Do people just not remember 8th at this point?

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Imperial Guard - Don’t actually have one Orders are something different it seems.

They do. 'Faction rules' is written above the image before the text block starts (editing/layout oops).

They use faction and army rule interchangeably for some reason.

From the oath of moment article (which also gets called an army rule)
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/07/faction-rules-are-leaner-and-cleaner-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

On top of this, every faction gets an army ability regardless of which Detachment you’re using. This represents the totemic aspect of that faction in war – so the Orks get Waaagh!, Tyranids get Synapse, the Astra Militarum get Orders, and the Space Marines get Oath of Moment.

Its is possible that like nids, guard will get a second rule, but these snippets are real bad for predicting that.

 vipoid wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Marines - Super reliable, but so far the most limited, as it’s only “cast” on a single unit each turn.

Tyranids - Somewhat swingy, but potentially game winning, as you stand a not unreasonable chance of preventing your opponent scoring VP’s for a turn amongst other things

I'm puzzled as to how a once-per-turn ability is more limited than a once-per-game ability.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Necrons - Lovely. No activation needed, always on, helps a great deal with army resilience.

Do people just not remember 8th at this point?

I share your concern about the RP change. It's better for Single Model Units and likely better for 3W+ models, but for Single wound and likely 2 wound models this looks worse.

We'll have to see how many other knobs and levers they pull with Characters and what not and how much Lethality really has decreased, but I am pretty wary.

The captain is up. Between this and the last 3 articles I'm definitely seeing fewer rerolls handed out.

Also some info on claw and TH...

New article details Combat Patrol as a new way to start playing WH40K.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/09/ways-to-play-warhammer-40000-combat-patrol-is-fast-and-fun/

Not entirely convinced but we'll see. They do say it's been playtested a lot

Someone hold HBMC down while we check if the middle piece is a conversion

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Someone hold HBMC down while we check if the middle piece is a conversion

It must be, the top half is way too obviously the Ferratonic Furnace chopped in half, and the bottom is four of the bottom half of the Vox Antenna glued together.

I actually think Combat Patrol is quite fun, but I suspect in retrospect they regret some of the boxes considering it - it feels like the Dark Angel one is a very odd combination comparted to the Chaos Marine one for example.

Also we get to see the new Marine Combat Patrol - that feels pretty good to me. Seven Terminators and five flamer marines is a pretty solid set, though two characters obviously makes it less useful in bulk.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Someone hold HBMC down while we check if the middle piece is a conversion

Looks like it was built using two vox antennas and other parts.

Oh boy, I know that Terminators are awesome and can take on many things (and Terminator Cap and Librarian can solo many things) but I kinda hoped for... more.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
The captain is up. Between this and the last 3 articles I'm definitely seeing fewer rerolls handed out.

Also some info on claw and TH...

Spoiler:

Combi-weapon is the same as the Librarian's, which doesn't bode well.

It's amusing to me that they've moved the location of the Invulnerable save stat on the CP card...and it's still in a stupid place. Why not add it to the end of the stat block so it looks less like a tacked-on afterthought?

Other than that, the Captain looks fine, with some interesting choices between TH, CF and PF.

Probably because they want the Invulnerable Save to stand out, rather than just blend into the stat block?

I prefer the Combat Patrol layout for the Invul save over the normal card. It makes sense to have it there, so when you go to check your save to apply the AP, it's right there to remind you.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Probably because they want the Invulnerable Save to stand out, rather than just blend into the stat block?

It seems like both cards could have had it up top. Perhaps there is some other reason the normal cards put it on the side, but I haven't seen it yet. Overall it's kind of a whatever problem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slipspace wrote:
Combi-weapon is the same as the Librarian's, which doesn't bode well.

It's amusing to me that they've moved the location of the Invulnerable save stat on the CP card...and it's still in a stupid place. Why not add it to the end of the stat block so it looks less like a tacked-on afterthought?

Other than that, the Captain looks fine, with some interesting choices between TH, CF and PF.

It does not. I figured maybe there would be an anti-vehicle version of the combi, but that doesn't make sense as it'd make picking models out kind of a nightmare. But why did they make a new kit with them? It is only characters getting stuffed so they don't outshine?

 Daedalus81 wrote:
The captain is up. Between this and the last 3 articles I'm definitely seeing fewer rerolls handed out.

Also some info on claw and TH...

I hate that the combat patrol version has the invulnerable save in the more logical spot.

Alright, so- non-combat patrol version. Choice of gear (like the librarian, though at thate time we didn't know loadouts were on the back of the card)

Rites of Battle- introduces timing issues. You really want to use whichever strat on some other unit first, so you can use it again, though 0 cp is nice either way.
Imperium's sword- rerolls for the less rerolls god! Also better-at-charging terminators, which is a weird choice.

Wargear- I hate that these are over here in the corner but affect things elsewhere on the card front. This feels like a 'least bad' layout compromise that nobody liked.
Relic shield is presumably a choice that replaces a ranged weapon? +1 wound is a 'I'm not sure I care' bonus, given some of the damage values we've seen. It does mean tanking an extra hit from any of the captain's own weapons, however.

ranged-
Combi weapon vs stormbolter. double attacks and hit on 2+. On the other hand, against infantry combi-weapon gets mortal wounds on a 4+, but with only two shots at close range. Someone can math this out for corner cases, but eyeballing it says I don't care about probably 1 MW and will take the stormbolter.

Melee weapons:
thunderhammer makes me facepalm. Hurrah for an un-consolidated weapon that brings a penalty to hit and the occasional pair of mortal wounds. That seems totally worthwhile.

Relic weapon is what I expected... mostly. +1 attack at S5 is not great. lightning claws feel even worse despite twin linked, because they're only damage 1.
Chainfist... feels like the wrong guy to be chasing vehicles around, though wounding on 3+ is nice against the new toughness values.

Probably just default to a power fist. Solidly reliable against a range of opponents, no penalties.

Nothing particularly impressive or scary here. Kind of wants to be a smash captain, but doesn't smash all that hard.



Bad news for the winged prime:
the psychostatic veil enhancement means it gets neither a 4++ or Lone Operative by default. Maybe it starts with leader, but without any of those things it looks like something that will just die.

Is it a reasonable assumption that the yet to be shown edition starter set is made up of the models necessary for the combat patrol game-mode? Matches the amount of models in the current starter boxes for 40k