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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Umm...

Luck Has. Need Keeps. Toil Earns:
At the end of your Command phase, if this unit is within range of an objective marker you control, that objective marker remains under your control, even if you have no models within range of it, until your opponent controls it at the start or end of any turn.

Shock Troops:
At the end of your Command phase, if this unit is within range of an objective marker you control, that objective marker remains under your control, even if you have no models within range of it, until your opponent controls it at the start of end of any turn.


So 'bout them "Universal Special Rules" they talked about, 'cause this above looks like old habits already creeping in. Why not just call this rule "Objective Secured", and not write it out each time?

Maybe its litterally only on these two units?

Or more realistically, just not a common enough rule to warrant a USR?

Time will tell

wait, what is "Shock troops" on? I can't seem to find it in the articles

Charax wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
This Terminator squad is the easy build to throw in starters, like the snapfit assault intercessors and outriders. I expect a proper kit with the rest of the heavy weapons, separate shoulder pads, probably the assault melee weapons.

I hope for that, I don't expect it.

Honestly don't expect much from GW these days, can't be disappointed if you don't have expectations!

This is the path of wisdom.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

wait, what is "Shock troops" on? I can't seem to find it in the articles

"Shock Troops" is on the Cadian Shock Troop datasheet:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Umm...

Luck Has. Need Keeps. Toil Earns:
At the end of your Command phase, if this unit is within range of an objective marker you control, that objective marker remains under your control, even if you have no models within range of it, until your opponent controls it at the start or end of any turn.

Shock Troops:
At the end of your Command phase, if this unit is within range of an objective marker you control, that objective marker remains under your control, even if you have no models within range of it, until your opponent controls it at the start of end of any turn.


So 'bout them "Universal Special Rules" they talked about, 'cause this above looks like old habits already creeping in. Why not just call this rule "Objective Secured", and not write it out each time?

Maybe its litterally only on these two units?

Or more realistically, just not a common enough rule to warrant a USR?

Time will tell

wait, what is "Shock troops" on? I can't seem to find it in the articles

One of the biggest causes of USR bloat was them giving USR to rules only 2-3 units in the game had.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Maybe its litterally only on these two units?

Or more realistically, just not a common enough rule to warrant a USR?

Time will tell

wait, what is "Shock troops" on? I can't seem to find it in the articles

I never minded these and still don't.

Aesthetically if the rule was a USR at the top it would look like they have no abilities like other sheets. Not ballooning USRs with less common stuff that can be on the sheet anyway feels fine to me.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Maybe its litterally only on these two units?

Or more realistically, just not a common enough rule to warrant a USR?

Time will tell

wait, what is "Shock troops" on? I can't seem to find it in the articles

I never minded these and still don't.

Aesthetically if the rule was a USR at the top it would look like they have no abilities like other sheets. Not ballooning USRs with less common stuff that can be on the sheet anyway feels fine to me.

same, IF theyre uncommon abilities.

USR design doesnt mean "make everything into USRs"

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Maybe its litterally only on these two units?

Or more realistically, just not a common enough rule to warrant a USR?

Time will tell

wait, what is "Shock troops" on? I can't seem to find it in the articles

I never minded these and still don't.

Aesthetically if the rule was a USR at the top it would look like they have no abilities like other sheets. Not ballooning USRs with less common stuff that can be on the sheet anyway feels fine to me.

same, IF theyre uncommon abilities.

USR design doesnt mean "make everything into USRs"

Even then it can make sense to have their reminder text on cards that have the space for it, why wouldn't you? The problem only starts if different versions do slightly different things and people incorrectly assume that they're all the same. With the cards (at least the get-you-by-versions) being designed at the same time, they should have consistent wording for once.

Well I am just happy that Votann got their ass kicked by nerfhammer.

Sisters should probably have been reduced to bs 4+ if both Necrons and Votan did.

 Scottywan82 wrote:

Charax wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
This Terminator squad is the easy build to throw in starters, like the snapfit assault intercessors and outriders. I expect a proper kit with the rest of the heavy weapons, separate shoulder pads, probably the assault melee weapons.

I hope for that, I don't expect it.

Honestly don't expect much from GW these days, can't be disappointed if you don't have expectations!

This is the path of wisdom.

I'd say it's at least an 8/10 that a multipart kit will follow, once they've sold enough of these - they can include a heavy flamer, cyclone missile launcher and a couple of chainfists so even people who have bought a few of these will want to buy more. We've seen this approach over and over again

Billicus wrote:

 Scottywan82 wrote:

Charax wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
This Terminator squad is the easy build to throw in starters, like the snapfit assault intercessors and outriders. I expect a proper kit with the rest of the heavy weapons, separate shoulder pads, probably the assault melee weapons.

I hope for that, I don't expect it.

Honestly don't expect much from GW these days, can't be disappointed if you don't have expectations!

This is the path of wisdom.

I'd say it's at least an 8/10 that a multipart kit will follow, once they've sold enough of these - they can include a heavy flamer, cyclone missile launcher and a couple of chainfists so even people who have bought a few of these will want to buy more. We've seen this approach over and over again

Then, eventually, chapter specific ones for the big three. To quote a popular sci-fi show: 'This is the way'.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Umm...

Luck Has. Need Keeps. Toil Earns:
At the end of your Command phase, if this unit is within range of an objective marker you control, that objective marker remains under your control, even if you have no models within range of it, until your opponent controls it at the start or end of any turn.

Shock Troops:
At the end of your Command phase, if this unit is within range of an objective marker you control, that objective marker remains under your control, even if you have no models within range of it, until your opponent controls it at the start of end of any turn.


So 'bout them "Universal Special Rules" they talked about, 'cause this above looks like old habits already creeping in. Why not just call this rule "Objective Secured", and not write it out each time?

At least they're worded exactly the same. A classic GW would be to have them worded similar but a little different. Because Bob was too lazy to look up what Jay wrote in the other codex and just typed the wording he remembered from their last meeting. Or from the Warcom faction focus .

They already confirmed that there's a full Terminator kit coming later. This is the Leviathan-bundled Terminator set, also potentially going to a Combat Patrol and Starter Sets after Leviathan is gone.

I really hope the cheapest starter set is the captain and 5 terminators Vs whatever Tyranids they put in, but I doubt it'll happen

Spoletta wrote:
Sisters should probably have been reduced to bs 4+ if both Necrons and Votan did.

Eh, Necrons weren’t so much Reduced to 4+ as the Warriors were counter balanced out from their addition of Lethal Hits, as their math remains much the same. Monolith is still hitting on a 3+, will have to see how the others fare.

James12345 wrote:
I really hope the cheapest starter set is the captain and 5 terminators Vs whatever Tyranids they put in, but I doubt it'll happen

The recruit edition right now has 5 assault intercessors and a LT. I suspect they will just swap the swords and pistols for flamers in a few months and the Lt will juggle his wargear.

Elite is 5 intercessors, 3 bikes, and the captain. We might see the captain and TDAs here, but I’d suspect we are more likely to see the sternguard here. Just my wild speculation

The SM Combat Patrol looks like 5 terminators, 5 burna boys, and the TDA captain and Librarian. This might be your best chance to get more of these guys if you don’t want the big box.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Umm...

Luck Has. Need Keeps. Toil Earns:
At the end of your Command phase, if this unit is within range of an objective marker you control, that objective marker remains under your control, even if you have no models within range of it, until your opponent controls it at the start or end of any turn.

Shock Troops:
At the end of your Command phase, if this unit is within range of an objective marker you control, that objective marker remains under your control, even if you have no models within range of it, until your opponent controls it at the start of end of any turn.


So 'bout them "Universal Special Rules" they talked about, 'cause this above looks like old habits already creeping in. Why not just call this rule "Objective Secured", and not write it out each time?

It looks like this edition is about to be a fun game of find the pair.

The Falcon and Hekaton Land Fortress both have the Fire Support rule. Guard Squads and Squat Squads have the same CP refund rule. Genestealers and Legionaries have the same re-roll wounds on objectives rule. As long as they have hired a competent copy and paste servitor/intern and can keep the wording consistent it should be ok. I have noticed they always explain certain USRs for guns on the data sheets, so far being one shot, conversion and pick from two profiles, which is odd. It seems like GW picked what they think will be hard to remember rules for this, but one shot feels very easy to remember, so I'm not sure.

It also looks like Below Half Strength is defined in the core rules of the game, but for some reason they never defined Below Starting Strength in the same core rules, which is why you noticed a day back a rule defining it in the text - Sisters get a positive rule, Belaor gets a negative (for his foes) rule for it.

Spoletta wrote:
Sisters should probably have been reduced to bs 4+ if both Necrons and Votan did.

*Warriors are hitting on a 4+.
Its likely that Destroyers and Immortals are still hitting on 3+, and monoliths and doomsday arks still have their 3+.
No idea why Votann are 4+ though. What were they in 9th ed?

"Votann hitting on 4+" is a bit misleading, judgement tokens are an immediate +1 to hit and sustained hits seems to be pretty widespread - sustained hits 1 is completely equivalent to another +1 to hit so many Votann weapons will actually perform like BS 2+.

Conversion weapons go even further, sustained D3 on a 4+ to hit would work out as 1.5 hits per shot on average, with some access to +1 to wound, at flat 3 damage; pretty spicy for a 4+ to hit.

This just feels to me like trying to make an elite army that isn't just a reskinned MEQ. The only bad thing on the Squat preview is their autocannon is a bit weedy compared to the much improved Chaos version already shown off.

EightFoldPath wrote:
As long as they have hired a competent copy and paste servitor/intern and can keep the wording consistent it should be ok.

RIP.




You'd think the effect of these two strategies would be copy/pasted and have consistent wording, but, alas.

But they ARE different. One works when targeted, one only works when someone gets killed.
Whether or not they should be is a different matter entirely.

 Rihgu wrote:

EightFoldPath wrote:
As long as they have hired a competent copy and paste servitor/intern and can keep the wording consistent it should be ok.

RIP.


You'd think the effect of these two strategies would be copy/pasted and have consistent wording, but, alas.

They aren't the same though, Votann triggers from a Judged unit shooting a unit, Sisters triggers from a unit killing models. Apart from that they use pretty much identical rules text.

The main thing I see is one has to target the enemy that shot them, while the other must Only target the enemy that shot them. Does that mean the Votann need allocate just a single shot at the triggering unit, thereby targeting it?

I guess I didn't make it clear enough that I was referring to the EFFECT. I am aware that the trigger is different...

As AduroT points out, the wording is different for the EFFECT, and it suggests that indeed Votann get to target willy-nilly as long as a single attack is targeting the unit that aimed at them while being judged.

Although considering it is both more expensive in CP and needing the attacking unit in question to already have a token, maybe it is intended?

Maybe units can't split fire anymore? If so, then the wording on the Votann strat doesn't matter. Have we heard anything concrete about splitting fire or not?

I doubt it because then the language on the Sister of Battle Stratagem wouldn't make sense. I think we might have a case of two different people working in tandem but not from a common source.

EightFoldPath wrote:
[

The Falcon and Hekaton Land Fortress both have the Fire Support rule.

Funny thing that no one has noticed, but the Falcon and Hekaton have different wording on Fire Support rule. Falcon says till the end of turn and so supports melee, Hekaton end of phase and so only supports shooting.

Khahandran wrote:

EightFoldPath wrote:
[

The Falcon and Hekaton Land Fortress both have the Fire Support rule.

Funny thing that no one has noticed, but the Falcon and Hekaton have different wording on Fire Support rule. Falcon says till the end of turn and so supports melee, Hekaton end of phase and so only supports shooting.

Admittedly a fair point, but unless either supports a charge after disembarking if the vehicle moves, shouldn't provide much actual difference.

ERJAK wrote:
One of the biggest causes of USR bloat was them giving USR to rules only 2-3 units in the game had.

And one of the biggest way to stop escalating rules bloat is to plan your USRs out in advance so that things like this don't happen.

Moreover, failure to apply USRs isn't a failure of the USR system. It's a failure of the people using the USR system.

I think back to this book. It introduced (to Rogue Trader) a stack of weapon qualities that had been written for later versions of the game so that this older game could benefit from them. Of course, the writers hadn't actually given any of these abilities to any of the units in the book. That changed once I pointed it out.