10th Edition Rumour Roundup - in the grim darkness of the far future, there are only power levels

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**Daedalus81**

Voss wrote:
Shadow Walker wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/17/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-death-guard-2/

Why does the contagion range include empty circles with no additional information? (Yes, I know its a visual representation. But it doesn't show anything)

The FF feels undercut by the rules leak. But it also seems... dull? Tougher, yeah, toughness penalty yeah, roll for 6s a lot. \shrug

I decided to go look at [Hazardous], because I couldn't figure out how it worked with a torrent weapon (the plaguecaster). Its an extra die roll! For each hazardous weapon fired, afterwards roll a d6, on a 1, a model is destroyed [takes 3 MW if character, monster or vehicle]

DG aren't putting up any unknown or interesting mechanics. Pretty much the same stuff with the expected tweaks.

Hazardous is interesting though. It seems to imply that if I have other models with hazardous I can kill them off instead of taking it on the character.

Forunately the CP reroll lets you do hazardous tests.

**Charax**

Lack of Disgustingly Resilient is a bit weird

Can't be an army rule (we've seen their army rule)
Can't be a detachment rule (we've seen their detachment rule)
Isn't a unit rule (we've seen Blightlords)
Isn't abstracted out to extra wounds or save (Blightlords have the same wounds, save and invuln as loyalist terminators)

Guess that's it, lads. +1 T is our lot.

Would have liked to see how PM options were handled, but it's not that long till release now, can wait and see.

**Voss**

Eldarsif wrote:
Love most of the Death Guard changes, hated some.

Not a fan of Blightlord Terminators going back to 4" as it means they move like molasses. However, it is made up by the fact that DG now has sticky objectives so they can move more freely around and don't have to sit around and babysit an objective.
Termies going to T6 is also really nice, and that both sword and axe is just one weapon now is excellent. It means the pool of eligible termies that I own almost doubled.

The overall changes to the malignant plaguecaster are nice, but does kind of remove him from the old "he can do whatever needs to be done" role I had him in. Pestilient fallout looks good on paper, but since it requires shooting and hitting with a pistol its usability lowers somewhat, since pistols have only 12" range.

Fallout only works with plague wind. The pistol is irrelevant.

Though amusingly, his pistol lacks [pistol], so doesn't use the pistol rules. (The weapon abilities explicitly reference the [keyword] format.)

**Domandi**

They have been following an order of Imperial>Chaos>Xenos. So we could still get orks on Thursday, but it could be DEldar, GSC, or Tau

**Slipspace**

ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'm liking a lot of what I see with the Death Guard, but I'm bothered by seeing no Disgusting Resilience.

DR was an annoying rule as it often had the opposite effect to what it should. DG should be particularly resilient to small arms but DR didn't help with that and only really helped against specific types of weapons, rather than delivering a general boost in survivability. It also had a profound effect on armies that got lots of D2 weapons, but little D3+. I'd have preferred to see something similar to the MoN in the CSM Codex, but just relying on their high Toughness and a general decrease in lethality seems fine too.

**Daedalus81**

kurhanik wrote:
So...challenges are back, albeit in the form of a stratagem. Not too thrilled about that.

I like this version. The old move your models in base and follow all these rules was blah. This is just letting you pound on some dude. Makes melee pretty threatening.

**ArcaneHorror**

Since almost all DG infantry units have been at T5 up until now, it is possible that T6 is the new DR and that even Plague Marines will be T6. I still want DR, but T6 basic infantry would be pretty cool.

**Dudeface**

Domandi wrote:
They have been following an order of Imperial>Chaos>Xenos. So we could still get orks on Thursday, but it could be DEldar, GSC, or Tau

GSC might be good now we have the guard one out the way, brood brothers would be worth covering and show something newish.

**MajorWesJanson**

Voss wrote:
Shadow Walker wrote:
So Imperial Knights tomorrow. I was hoping for Orks.

Same. They're basically the foundation 'enemy faction' for 40k so it really matters how they turn out. The Johnny-come-lately subfactions can wait for the big lads.

And IK tomorrow likely means chaos knights friday. (I'm a little surprised they aren't one article)

I'm still hoping that a Knight Households book just merges Imperial and Chaos knights together, with the new Cerastus models included. Plenty of room for the unit datasheets, and then 6 detachments- 1 each for imperial, mechanicus, freeblade, traitor, daemonic, and dreadblade knights

**Voss**

ArcaneHorror wrote:
Since almost all DG infantry units have been at T5 up until now, it is possible that T6 is the new DR and that even Plague Marines will be T6. I still want DR, but T6 basic infantry would be pretty cool.

The plaguecaster is T5. I doubt basic deathguard will be tougher than characters. The terminators are T6 because everybody's terminators are T5 now.

**Dudeface**

ArcaneHorror wrote:
Since almost all DG infantry units have been at T5 up until now, it is possible that T6 is the new DR and that even Plague Marines will be T6. I still want DR, but T6 basic infantry would be pretty cool.

The caster is T5, the T6 is the terminator plate.

**Charax**

Slipspace wrote:
ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'm liking a lot of what I see with the Death Guard, but I'm bothered by seeing no Disgusting Resilience.

DR was an annoying rule as it often had the opposite effect to what it should. DG should be particularly resilient to small arms but DR didn't help with that and only really helped against specific types of weapons, rather than delivering a general boost in survivability. It also had a profound effect on armies that got lots of D2 weapons, but little D3+. I'd have preferred to see something similar to the MoN in the CSM Codex, but just relying on their high Toughness and a general decrease in lethality seems fine too.

That was true, but I think a lot of DG players were hoping that with the mention of USRs coming back we'd get a version of our old FnP. there's nothing thematically linking the term Disgustingly Resilient to Damage Reduction, except the initials

**Asmodai**

Domandi wrote:
They have been following an order of Imperial>Chaos>Xenos. So we could still get orks on Thursday, but it could be DEldar, GSC, or Tau

Imperial Knights are already announced for Thursday.

I could see Chaos Knights being put in the Friday slot for symmetry, but if not, it'll probably be one of the four remaining Xenos. (Only Custodes and Grey Knights left for Imperium after tomorrow - unless they give Agents a day.)

**Sarigar**

Having difficulty finding it: does engagement range now equate to base to base contact?

**Platuan4th**

Sarigar wrote:
Having difficulty finding it: does engagement range now equate to base to base contact?

Base to base as well as base to base with someone in base to base.

**Boosykes**

Death guard look OK. Too bad about disgustingly resilient but at least they dident get massacred like skitarii.

**Slipspace**

Charax wrote:
Slipspace wrote:
ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'm liking a lot of what I see with the Death Guard, but I'm bothered by seeing no Disgusting Resilience.

DR was an annoying rule as it often had the opposite effect to what it should. DG should be particularly resilient to small arms but DR didn't help with that and only really helped against specific types of weapons, rather than delivering a general boost in survivability. It also had a profound effect on armies that got lots of D2 weapons, but little D3+. I'd have preferred to see something similar to the MoN in the CSM Codex, but just relying on their high Toughness and a general decrease in lethality seems fine too.

That was true, but I think a lot of DG players were hoping that with the mention of USRs coming back we'd get a version of our old FnP. there's nothing thematically linking the term Disgustingly Resilient to Damage Reduction, except the initials

FnP is a nightmare as a faction-wide ability, especially with multi-wound models at the core of the army. The reason it was changed in 9th was because dealing with FnP saves for multi-wound models is a slow, tedious process with the way the rules are currently written. There were ways to speed it up, but it remained a clunky process that dragged games out.

**Daedalus81**

Hit and wound modifiers still capped at +/- 1. Kind of an odd choice to make in some circumstances, but liberates wounded Sisters units.

Oh gak. You can shoot at vehicle/monster even if they're in combat.

**Eldarsif**

Voss wrote:
Eldarsif wrote:
Love most of the Death Guard changes, hated some.

Not a fan of Blightlord Terminators going back to 4" as it means they move like molasses. However, it is made up by the fact that DG now has sticky objectives so they can move more freely around and don't have to sit around and babysit an objective.
Termies going to T6 is also really nice, and that both sword and axe is just one weapon now is excellent. It means the pool of eligible termies that I own almost doubled.

The overall changes to the malignant plaguecaster are nice, but does kind of remove him from the old "he can do whatever needs to be done" role I had him in. Pestilient fallout looks good on paper, but since it requires shooting and hitting with a pistol its usability lowers somewhat, since pistols have only 12" range.

Fallout only works with plague wind. The pistol is irrelevant.

Though amusingly, his pistol lacks [pistol], so doesn't use the pistol rules. (The weapon abilities explicitly reference the [keyword] format.)

The point still stands as Plague Wind has the same range as the pistol. So you are already pretty close before applying the psychic power.

I agree that the pistol not having pistol keyword is rather strange.

Ultimately not that bothered about the changes. Every army seems to be changing and with so many people decrying the nerf of their army I take it that is the general approach by GW. We are also seeing a lot of loss of AP on small arms which helps Death Guard be more resilient. Personally I need to test Death Guard in the new edition before making a final verdict.

**Voss**

Platuan4th wrote:
Sarigar wrote:
Having difficulty finding it: does engagement range now equate to base to base contact?

Base to base as well as base to base with someone in base to base.

Not quite. I can't find the actual number, but the example combat has a couple blue shaded termagants that aren't in base to base but are in engagement range. With red shaded ones that can fight in base to base with the blue ones.

**Platuan4th**

Eldarsif wrote:
Voss wrote:
Eldarsif wrote:
Love most of the Death Guard changes, hated some.

Not a fan of Blightlord Terminators going back to 4" as it means they move like molasses. However, it is made up by the fact that DG now has sticky objectives so they can move more freely around and don't have to sit around and babysit an objective.
Termies going to T6 is also really nice, and that both sword and axe is just one weapon now is excellent. It means the pool of eligible termies that I own almost doubled.

The overall changes to the malignant plaguecaster are nice, but does kind of remove him from the old "he can do whatever needs to be done" role I had him in. Pestilient fallout looks good on paper, but since it requires shooting and hitting with a pistol its usability lowers somewhat, since pistols have only 12" range.

Fallout only works with plague wind. The pistol is irrelevant.

Though amusingly, his pistol lacks [pistol], so doesn't use the pistol rules. (The weapon abilities explicitly reference the [keyword] format.)

The point still stands as Plague Wind has the same range as the pistol. So you are already pretty close before applying the psychic power.

I agree that the pistol not having pistol keyword is rather strange.

Not having the Pistol keyword means he can still use it when he uses his Psychic Ranged Weapon.

**Eldarsif**

Platuan4th wrote:

Not having the Pistol keyword means he can still use it when he uses his Psychic Ranged Weapon.

That makes sense I guess.

**Clanan**

The DG contagion aura doesn't accumulate when multiple DG units are in range, right? That would be... interesting.

**Sherrypie**

Clanan wrote:
The DG contagion aura doesn't accumulate when multiple DG units are in range, right? That would be... interesting.

Nah, it just checks whether the enemy unit is in any Gifted unit's range.

**Brickfix**

Messed up a quote. Ignore

**H.B.M.C.**

So how many weapons are we up to that cause Battleshock tests by hitting/wounding the enemy?

Daedalus81 wrote:
Smoke is great, too. Cover and -1.

But no two tanks can ever pop-smoke at the same time. That just wouldn't be realistic. Instead only one tank gets to do it, and you have to expend an abstracted strategic resource to do so.

Equipment should never have been turned into strats.

Daedalus81 wrote:
You can shoot at vehicle/monster even if they're in combat.

Is that a good thing?

**Daedalus81**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
So how many weapons are we up to that cause Battleshock tests by hitting/wounding the enemy?

Daedalus81 wrote:
Smoke is great, too. Cover and -1.
But no two tanks can ever pop-smoke at the same time. That just wouldn't be realistic. Instead only one tank gets to do it, and you have to expend an abstracted strategic resource to do so.

Equipment should never have been turned into strats.

With it being reactionary and as strong as that while also allowing you to shoot I'd prefer it be a strat. If you couldn't shoot then then everyone do it, but I'm not sure that's as interesting.

**H.B.M.C.**

It kinda bugs me that there are so many universal rules that have been set up as scaling rules - Sustained Hits X, Melta X, Rapid Fire X, Scouts X - but then there are others that could/should be variable, but are left at set values: Deep Strike and Infiltrators spring to mind.

If they were X values as well, think of how much more variable you could make things, and how you wouldn't require special rules for things like Lictors or Callidus Assasins or whatever else will inevitably end up with "This unit can set up within 6" of the enemy etc. etc. etc." special rules.

**Shadow Walker**

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/17/space-marine-1st-companies-are-the-elites-leading-from-the-front/

**Tsagualsa**

Shadow Walker wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/17/space-marine-1st-companies-are-the-elites-leading-from-the-front/

Literally useless marketing faff.