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 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Which may be partly why Pathfinders picking up 4+ isn't a big deal when there's no ablative wounds.

I care little for their ablative-ness, more that Drones just don't count anymore. They're nothing. They just take up space. They might as well not be on the table.

I mean... there are armed Drones... do you measure range/LOS from them?

From the model that equipped them as wargear, like you would any other piece of wargear a model equips.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Which may be partly why Pathfinders picking up 4+ isn't a big deal when there's no ablative wounds.

I care little for their ablative-ness, more that Drones just don't count anymore. They're nothing. They just take up space. They might as well not be on the table.

I mean... there are armed Drones... do you measure range/LOS from them?

Yea it's certainly weird, but they do help as a reminder of what the unit has. I'm guessing you pick a model to shoot from for the gun drones.

 Rihgu wrote:
From the model that equipped them as wargear, like you would any other piece of wargear a model equips.

It's just weird to go from Drones and even Drone units that do things to them just being non-existent markers.

I've been running Psychic Familiar in my Genestealer Cult and Cherubs with my Sisters and Marines for years, so it seems pretty easy to just apply the same logic.

The presence/absence of the token may be relevant if there's a Saviour Protocols strategem.

If a drone isn't a model, does it block base to base contact?

Wording on the specialist drones (bearer has vs bearer's unit has) makes me think unit size will be capped at 1 on some stuff like maybe Broadsides, and other larger units just won't get certain drones at all?

 Asmodai wrote:
I've been running Psychic Familiar in my Genestealer Cult and Cherubs with my Sisters and Marines for years, so it seems pretty easy to just apply the same logic.

How many of them were armed or possessed specific equipment?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Rihgu wrote:
From the model that equipped them as wargear, like you would any other piece of wargear a model equips.

It's just weird to go from Drones and even Drone units that do things to them just being non-existent markers.

There was a good post for this on reddit, summary was:

- Community spends 2+ years saying drones might as well be wargear, they hate having to transport, build, paint or even go out the way to purchase the drones to basically function as a piece of wargear, no need for the drones to have a model

- Community is then angry that they don't have to put drone models on the table

Dudeface wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Rihgu wrote:
From the model that equipped them as wargear, like you would any other piece of wargear a model equips.

It's just weird to go from Drones and even Drone units that do things to them just being non-existent markers.

There was a good post for this on reddit, summary was:

- Community spends 2+ years saying drones might as well be wargear, they hate having to transport, build, paint or even go out the way to purchase the drones to basically function as a piece of wargear, no need for the drones to have a model

- Community is then angry that they don't have to put drone models on the table

TBF, I'm not sure if H.B.M.C. has ever said that drones might as well be wargear.

Dudeface wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Rihgu wrote:
From the model that equipped them as wargear, like you would any other piece of wargear a model equips.

It's just weird to go from Drones and even Drone units that do things to them just being non-existent markers.

There was a good post for this on reddit, summary was:

- Community spends 2+ years saying drones might as well be wargear, they hate having to transport, build, paint or even go out the way to purchase the drones to basically function as a piece of wargear, no need for the drones to have a model

- Community is then angry that they don't have to put drone models on the table

But you still have to put them on the table. They just have a nebulous half existence while taking up table space, while kinda-sorta not mattering and yet having no counterplay.

Its definitely a solution to various Drone Shenanigans over the years, but its a machete solution to a wart.

 Rihgu wrote:
TBF, I'm not sure if H.B.M.C. has ever said that drones might as well be wargear.

I have not. I like Drones being things in the same way I wish Cherubs and Servo-Skulls were on bases and were things. In the same way that Eldar Weapon platforms are things (it was weird when they weren't!).

Models that aren't really models feels off to me.

Voss wrote:
Its definitely a solution to various Drone Shenanigans over the years, but its a machete solution to a wart.

Or a massive swing of a pendulum, or an example of throwing something away to reinvent the wheel. Non-iterative rules.

Just like I've been saying...

Dudeface wrote:
There was a good post for this on reddit, summary was:

And just like every other "First they said X and now they're saying Y" comment, it is inherently disingenuous, lacks any nuance, fails to address the core issues and is an overall giant ad hominem.

My oldest friend plays Tau. He has damn near close to 200 Drones. He loves the little things.It's going to be a weird adjustment going "Oh BTW, all these things, they're not actually real!".

 Rihgu wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Rihgu wrote:
From the model that equipped them as wargear, like you would any other piece of wargear a model equips.

It's just weird to go from Drones and even Drone units that do things to them just being non-existent markers.

There was a good post for this on reddit, summary was:

- Community spends 2+ years saying drones might as well be wargear, they hate having to transport, build, paint or even go out the way to purchase the drones to basically function as a piece of wargear, no need for the drones to have a model

- Community is then angry that they don't have to put drone models on the table

TBF, I'm not sure if H.B.M.C. has ever said that drones might as well be wargear.

Nor did I imply they did, it's just one of those common niggles in the community where people get annoyed by something, moan about it for year, suggest alternatives. Alternatives happen then someone else pipes up about how their day is ruined. Par for the 40k course.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Models that aren't really models feels off to me.

This!

For me the "some models are tokens and not actually models" thing isn't a bother, in part because Orks had that all the way back in at least 4th edition with various different grots (like the Grot Oilers).

The sheer number of Drones that Tau can field though does worry me slightly... just imagine how painful keeping track of a unit of Battlesuits that all have their own unique drone combinations + a joined Commander with their own drones will be to keep track of once you need to start moving drones about to fit other models close/in base-to-base. Probably better overall than the weird daisy chain abuse they've been able to do in the past, but annoying all the same.

If GW wasn't 99% likely to revert back to the old drone system at some point in the future (whether that be 11th, a later edition or part way through 10th), I'd suggest adding equipped drones directly to the model that owns them for Crisis Suits.

Or just paint the drones or bases to indicate what unit/suit they are attached to.

Dudeface wrote:

 Rihgu wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Rihgu wrote:
From the model that equipped them as wargear, like you would any other piece of wargear a model equips.

It's just weird to go from Drones and even Drone units that do things to them just being non-existent markers.

There was a good post for this on reddit, summary was:

- Community spends 2+ years saying drones might as well be wargear, they hate having to transport, build, paint or even go out the way to purchase the drones to basically function as a piece of wargear, no need for the drones to have a model

- Community is then angry that they don't have to put drone models on the table

TBF, I'm not sure if H.B.M.C. has ever said that drones might as well be wargear.

Nor did I imply they did, it's just one of those common niggles in the community where people get annoyed by something, moan about it for year, suggest alternatives. Alternatives happen then someone else pipes up about how their day is ruined. Par for the 40k course.

No, that's just par for humans without a hivemind. Different people have their own preferences.

 Insularum wrote:
If a drone isn't a model, does it block base to base contact?

No.

If it works like GSC small guys or SoB cherubs then these are effectively tokens that should not block anything. So if they are positioned to block an incoming assault you must move them away as they are only representative tokens of what charges a unit has.

Honestly not that confused about this, but I have a few armies that have model tokens like this. GSC have the familiar, SoB have the cherubs, and Dark Angels have Watcher in the Dark. Ultimately they could be tokens on the table, but the models tend to provide more immersive feelings.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Insularum wrote:
If a drone isn't a model, does it block base to base contact?

No.

If it works like GSC small guys or SoB cherubs then these are effectively tokens that should not block anything. So if they are positioned to block an incoming assault you must move them away as they are only representative tokens of what charges a unit has.

Honestly not that confused about this, but I have a few armies that have model tokens like this. GSC have the familiar, SoB have the cherubs, and Dark Angels have Watcher in the Dark. Ultimately they could be tokens on the table, but the models tend to provide more immersive feelings.

Its less confusion than it is the reality that tau armies can have 30+ drones on the table. A lot more if you're building for it, which people have done in the past.

One or two tokens attached to specific characters or certain units is one thing. Tau drones are an order of magnitude problem.

Its also that the pathfinder card has drones that reference both 'bearer' and 'bearer's unit,' and there is zip and squat to indicate which model an individual 'bearer' would be. And if they were still models, that problem solves itself. The model with the burst cannon is the model with the burst cannon. Not trooper 'F,' whichever one that is.

Voss wrote:
Its also that the pathfinder card has drones that reference both 'bearer' and 'bearer's unit,' and there zip and squat to indicate which model an individual 'bearer' would be.

I imagine that part will be dictated on the rear of the card, like all wargear and wargear options

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Voss wrote:
Its also that the pathfinder card has drones that reference both 'bearer' and 'bearer's unit,' and there zip and squat to indicate which model an individual 'bearer' would be.

I imagine that part will be dictated on the rear of the card, like all wargear and wargear options

\shrug. I know which marine or guardsman has the chainsword or lascanon because the model has a chainsword or lascannon
To this day, I don't know what a tau drone controller looks like, or if a tau 'sergeant' looks any different, unless the player specifically built the model with the EKG meter (and didn't decide that it was a trooper in a cool pose).
So which of potentially dozens of drones belongs to which of dozens of tau is... not going to be obvious.

Some of these pieces of 'wargear' have weapons, which makes them functionally quite different.
At this point we've seen wargear that's just a passive bonus to the unit, wargear that grants keywords, wargear that adjusts stats and wargear that becomes guns. Wargear is doing a lot of heavy lifting in an inconsistent fashion.

I am curious about what this means for Sniper Drones. Will they be attached to the spotter? Will we finally get a plastic kit with heavy drone models that count as actual models? Maybe the Sniper drone unit will be attached dones, but allowed to be an observer for himself?

 Asmodai wrote:
The presence/absence of the token may be relevant if there's a Saviour Protocols strategem.

Ooh...interesting point.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I am curious about what this means for Sniper Drones. Will they be attached to the spotter? Will we finally get a plastic kit with heavy drone models that count as actual models? Maybe the Sniper drone unit will be attached dones, but allowed to be an observer for himself?

Or that kit will just be discontinued

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I am curious about what this means for Sniper Drones. Will they be attached to the spotter? Will we finally get a plastic kit with heavy drone models that count as actual models? Maybe the Sniper drone unit will be attached dones, but allowed to be an observer for himself?

I guess there'll just be some drones that continue to count as models, like the aforementioned sniper drones or even Drone Swarms. I don't really see the problem, there are other models that are just reminder tokens (Watchers in the Dark and such), they're probably fine. If it gets too confusing, do alternative bases or use coins etc. to distinguish.

Edit: wrong button.

 Rihgu wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Which may be partly why Pathfinders picking up 4+ isn't a big deal when there's no ablative wounds.

I care little for their ablative-ness, more that Drones just don't count anymore. They're nothing. They just take up space. They might as well not be on the table.

I mean... there are armed Drones... do you measure range/LOS from them?

From the model that equipped them as wargear, like you would any other piece of wargear a model equips.

Somebody never had to deal with cherubs before...

This change is probably the most Pro-Consumer thing GW as a company has ever done. New players building Tau, REJOICE! you no longer need to ebay 1500 individual drone recasts to be able to play a 500pt boarding action!

Voss wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/19/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-tau-empire-2/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=fftau19052023

As Tau Shall.

For the Greater Good is... a mess to parse. Once you get it, its... fine, but that's an absurdly ugly bit of writing.

For the practical effect of 'half your army (rounded down, but exceptions) can have effective shooting,' its not very good.

Drones as markers cleans up a lot of stupid rules interactions, but it means the board is crowded with what's effectively non-interactable litter.

Yeah that was painful to read. It's a fine ability but they really made that a bloated set of sentences.

GW: It’s an elegant system

After seeing tau staying at a 4+ armor save are people still OK with metal men skitarii moving to a 5+? And Pathfinders moving from a 5+ to a 4+.

I will say I don't know that much about tau I need to learn more about them. In my opinion with the limited knowledge I currently posses about tau I thought the rules looked good.

Curious what peoples thoughts are on tau keeping a 4+ but mostly metal cyborgs moving to 5+ are.

Gess admech uses tin for most the bionics and armor

Boosykes wrote:
After seeing tau staying at a 4+ armor save are people still OK with metal men skitarii moving to a 5+? And Pathfinders moving from a 5+ to a 4+.

I will say I don't know that much about tau I need to learn more about them. In my opinion with the limited knowledge I currently posses about tau I thought the rules looked good.

Curious what peoples thoughts are on tau keeping a 4+ but mostly metal cyborgs moving to 5+ are.

Gess admech uses tin for most the bionics and armor

The 'metal men' get an effective 3+ save when in cover against AP1 if they're using protectorate.

So do Tau, but then if Skitarii was a 4+ then they'd effectively become 2+.

i thought saves can never be improved by more than +1 so how does the +2 work?

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Even a single Gun Drone would make a unit have an assault weapon though

When the Tau Empire commits to a strike upon the enemy, they pair up units to provide covering fire and observation to friendly units, allowing them to reliable eliminate major threats to the assault.

"If your army is Tau Empire, Each shooting phase, select two friendly units eligible to shoot this turn, designate one as an Observer and one as Guided. Then, select one enemy unit that is visible to both the Observer and the Guided units, and designated it as Targeted A better term would have been Marked. When the Guided unit attacks with any of it's weapons until the end of this phase, it has -1 to hit unless it attacks the Targeted unit, in which case improve the Ballistic Skill of the Attack by 1. If the Observer has the Markerlight keyword, the attack also gains the [Ignores Cover] special rule. You may repeat this process as many times as you like, as long as no Observer unit is ever designated as a Guided unit"


Quick Note, the ability, while it only improves the shooting attacks, is not actually only restricted to shooting attacks, so you could improve a melee attack by +1BS and Ignores Cover for some reason.