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Could we please keep the discussion here related to 10th edition 40k? The latest posts are better suited in a topic about the future of GW and 3D printing.

leopard wrote:

indeed suspect it would be faster to print them than to go out, buy them, come home and then build them to both being ready to prime.

and you don't need to print many to be cheaper, it comes down to an upfront cost and how much time you invest into setting it up and space to operate it

its notable that Historical figures, with likely vastly lower production runs, in HIPS are far cheaper, and thats with out sourced manufacturing
GW are not in trouble yet, and won't be for quite some time, they are that rare beastie, a cash rich company without significant debt

time, work and money
people are willing to invest time and work to save on money, yet for those were time is more important and money not the issue, faster is better
hence why pre-painted terrain sells well and 2000€ multicolour fdm printers are attractive for those needing lot of terrain
or having a small printer to get the DnD models

those that want to save money it is an easy calculation, investing ~600€ to print a 40k army worth 800-1000€ is already worth it and they can easily print another one
but investing 600€ to print a 100€ historical army, you need 6 of them to make it worth it, not including the additional time needed

in additional point is to get things that are not available otherwise, but this than it is not a competition with HIPS anyway

So with Chaos Knights army rules it seems they are really comitted to making battleshock matter.
On the one hand i applaud the attitude.
On the other hand i cannot remember a time when it actually DID matter.
40k has a long history of ending up with mostly battleshock immune armies.

Seriously: those are a lot of rules (and dice Rolls) for very conditional things.

It might end up being powerfull, who knows.

Custodes https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/23/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-adeptus-custodes/

Huh. Why are Misercordia A5 and not A1 (Extra Attacks)?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/23/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-adeptus-custodes/

The bananas come!

Meh. Katas are less insanely worded. Most interesting thing is probably the 'get a model back' strat and the fact that vexhalias make the units OC3
Defensive stance seems more useful than crit-fishing.

Detachment ability is good but boring.

Surprised they're 'only' LD 6+.

Allarus at T7 is... something (though Trajan is only 6, so this isn't a faction wide thing). Not sure it matters much with the wound chart, but I guess there are a few corner cases where it changes a pip.

A 2++!

LD5 is expected. No immunity at least.

With the changes to the fight phase that Fights First is really good.

T7 custodians makes those mid-range guns make more sense.

Orks tomorrow! Green is da best!

 Daedalus81 wrote:
A 2++!

LD5 is expected. No immunity at least.

LD5 is only Trajann. The units are 6+

2++ will almost never matter. You want him leading a unit, and other than precision, like all characters he's untouchable anyway.



I'm impressed with how much the prosecutors suck. A standard boltgun and power armor, at best dealing mortals to psykers on 6s. Their anti-psyker rule means psykers will just target units in your army that matter.

Voss wrote:
2++ will almost never matter. You want him leading a unit, and other than precision, like all characters he's untouchable anyway.

I'm impressed with how much the prosecutors suck. A standard boltgun and power armor, at best dealing mortals to psykers on 6s. Their anti-psyker rule means psykers will just target units in your army that matter.

Given that it's once per game I think the Fights First will be the most commonly used.

And yea Prosecutors are a bit boring.

I am really, really happy to not see crazy LD values.

Voss wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
A 2++!

LD5 is expected. No immunity at least.

LD5 is only Trajann. The units are 6+

2++ will almost never matter. You want him leading a unit, and other than precision, like all characters he's untouchable anyway.



I'm impressed with how much the prosecutors suck. A standard boltgun and power armor, at best dealing mortals to psykers on 6s. Their anti-psyker rule means psykers will just target units in your army that matter.

Yeah, I was expecting a different bolter profile like CSM where it's flat 2 shots at the very least, but this forces you to get into rapid fire range to actually maximize the chances of procc'ing mortal wounds on psykers. The CC version looks much more of what you're looking for in an anti-psyker unit, but the main problem is that chances are the Custodes units can actually get there and can do similar if not better damage than the Vigilators without being meta dependent on facing armies that rely on psykers.

Tsagualsa wrote:
and their renewed attempt at an MMO (probably).

The Warhammer MMO was ahead of it's time. Shame they couldn't work out the issues. I miss that game.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
2++ will almost never matter. You want him leading a unit, and other than precision, like all characters he's untouchable anyway.

I'm impressed with how much the prosecutors suck. A standard boltgun and power armor, at best dealing mortals to psykers on 6s. Their anti-psyker rule means psykers will just target units in your army that matter.

Given that it's once per game I think the Fights First will be the most commonly used.

Oof. I didn't actually catch that he had to pick just one. Yeah, Fights first for the entire unit wins. Maybe double attacks for him in some situations (given the general scarcity of higher strength, AP2 and Damage 3 in combination).

 Grimskul wrote:

Yeah, I was expecting a different bolter profile like CSM where it's flat 2 shots at the very least, but this forces you to get into rapid fire range to actually maximize the chances of procc'ing mortal wounds on psykers. The CC version looks much more of what you're looking for in an anti-psyker unit, but the main problem is that chances are the Custodes units can actually get there and can do similar if not better damage than the Vigilators without being meta dependent on facing armies that rely on psykers.

It probably comes down to what their HQ brings to the unit. Otherwise they feel as tacked on as they always have.

As for efficiency -- that greatblade hitting an abominant isn't terrible, but it comes down to cost. I'm just not sure Custodes need a QRF in a rhino for Psykers.

 Grimskul wrote:

Voss wrote:



I'm impressed with how much the prosecutors suck. A standard boltgun and power armor, at best dealing mortals to psykers on 6s. Their anti-psyker rule means psykers will just target units in your army that matter.

Yeah, I was expecting a different bolter profile like CSM where it's flat 2 shots at the very least, but this forces you to get into rapid fire range to actually maximize the chances of procc'ing mortal wounds on psykers. The CC version looks much more of what you're looking for in an anti-psyker unit, but the main problem is that chances are the Custodes units can actually get there and can do similar if not better damage than the Vigilators without being meta dependent on facing armies that rely on psykers.

Yeah. Their greatswords are really good against Abominants, but... eh. You gotta get there.
Though against big stuff (even bigger standard vehicles), the Custodes weapons shown here seem inadequate.

Even in the article they mention Talons of the Emperor but the focus is Adeptus Custodes. What hope is there for the codex to be named Talons of the Emperor, and get us more SoS units, and maybe some other, so far unknown/not mentioned, forces fighting for the Talons exclusively (yeah, I know)?

What is the point of Misericordia?

I can either choose:

5 attacks, hitting on 2+, at S7 AP-2 D2
-OR-
5 attacks, hitting on 2+, at S5 AP-2 D1

So... why would I ever choose the latter?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
and their renewed attempt at an MMO (probably).

The Warhammer MMO was ahead of it's time. Shame they couldn't work out the issues. I miss that game.

https://www.returnofreckoning.com/index.php

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What is the point of Misericordia?

I can either choose:

5 attacks, hitting on 2+, at S7 AP-2 D2
-OR-
5 attacks, hitting on 2+, at S5 AP-2 D1

So... why would I ever choose the latter?

Maybe it is for the extra attacks mentioned in Daemons focus?

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What is the point of Misericordia?

I can either choose:

5 attacks, hitting on 2+, at S7 AP-2 D2
-OR-
5 attacks, hitting on 2+, at S5 AP-2 D1

So... why would I ever choose the latter?

Maybe it is for the extra attacks mentioned in Daemons focus?

No, because it doesnt have the extra attacks rule. No additional attacks with it.

EDIT : The guardian spear has S7 AP-2 D2. The miseriocordia has S5 AP-2 D1. Must have been a typo.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What is the point of Misericordia?

I can either choose:

5 attacks, hitting on 2+, at S7 AP-2 D2
-OR-
5 attacks, hitting on 2+, at S5 AP-2 D1

So... why would I ever choose the latter?

Maybe it is for the extra attacks mentioned in Daemons focus?

Nope. It would have the [Extra Attacks] keyword.
I'd guess the point is an alt weapon to the axe when you're dealing with garbage and don't want to hit on 3+ or want the AP.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What is the point of Misericordia?

I can either choose:

5 attacks, hitting on 2+, at S7 AP-2 D2
-OR-
5 attacks, hitting on 2+, at S5 AP-2 D1

So... why would I ever choose the latter?

Maybe it is for the extra attacks mentioned in Daemons focus?

Nah, that’s listed on the weapon’s profile, and is missing from the Misercordia. Only use I can think of is in case someone is able to force your units to duff themselves up.

It's so you can flex by using a worse weapon to kill something.
Or so you can hurt something just short of wiping them to hope that fail a battleshock test and have to take a gample falling back so you can stay safe from the big tank guns.


Look I'm trying hard ok?

Wow after seeing custodes the should rename death guard, death joke or somthing. Anybody got a good name for these usless stinky lads?

Death telly tubbys? Laughing stock guard? Sin stiffer sniffers? Obese guard? Broken? Broke back guard? The slime sleezers? Chode guzzle guard? The lie down and take it guard? The death we give up guard? The custard boot cleaner's? The broke by bananas guard?

Custodes look great though.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What is the point of Misericordia?

I can either choose:

5 attacks, hitting on 2+, at S7 AP-2 D2
-OR-
5 attacks, hitting on 2+, at S5 AP-2 D1

So... why would I ever choose the latter?

For models armed with the Axe (4 attacks, hitting on 3+, at S9 AP -1 D3) when fighting mooks. Go into Dacatarai stance for Sustained Hits 1 and the Misericordia starts looking pretty good against W1 models with a 5+ or worst Save.

But models armed with the Guardian Spear will never have a use for a Misericordia.

I'm just impressed that Custodes are just Leadership 6+. GW is really going hard into Battleshock this edition. Nobody is immune to leadership and nobody has Leadership values that make it highly unlikely to ever fail.

I still think there is some rule for the Misericordia on a full datasheet that will get those extra attacks. Maybe against Characters? Otherwise it is as you all say, a worthless one, somehow missed by the playtesters.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What is the point of Misericordia?

I can either choose:

5 attacks, hitting on 2+, at S7 AP-2 D2
-OR-
5 attacks, hitting on 2+, at S5 AP-2 D1

So... why would I ever choose the latter?

I was wondering the same thing. Maybe they missed Extra Attacks from the profile, but I doubt it because that would be a lot of extra attacks. Given that all Custodes carry a close combat weapon of some kind it's not even for the case of models without a "proper" close combat weapon. Weird.

Edit: further research suggests it may be for the banner bearer who has to give up their close combat weapon to hold a flag.

Crispy78 wrote:
https://www.returnofreckoning.com/index.php

That's so cool. You just made my day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Misericordia profile exists purely for the banner bearer.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:
https://www.returnofreckoning.com/index.php

That's so cool. You just made my day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Misericordia profile exists purely for the banner bearer.

You're very welcome!