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Another thing to consider -- Ghaz is no longer a Monster so he's safer from targeted weapons and, if it's still allowed, can walk through buildings.

 Sasori wrote:

I am really curious what form the new detachment rules are going to take. All the index ones are a general one, but how specific do we think they are going to get? Like, are we going to get a full destroyer cult deatchment set, or just general Melee? Canoptek/Cryptek focused one?

Hopefully they can add flavor back in that way.

Its unclear what the detachments are intended to be. CSM & WE didn't even get one previewed.

Now, for Orks, this is the Obviously Not Goffs detachment. DG get a plague company, Tau get a battle philosophy. Guard get auto-wound on 6s. Its kind of a grab bag.

Side note: Waaagh! Tribe is a stupid name, almost as bad as Shadow of Chaos.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Side note: Waaagh! Tribe is a stupid name, almost as bad as Shadow of Chaos.

Yea it's like they wanted you to know 'Goffs' aren't a think anymore, but couldn't think of a better term.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sisters of Silence not being immune to Psykers is a travesty

Exactly. The whole point of the SoS was that psychic powers just don't work on them.

I'd like to see some fluff where a Psyker hurls a Boulder at them and then it loses all momentum because they're "immune", and then it falls to the ground.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sisters of Silence not being immune to Psykers is a travesty

Exactly. The whole point of the SoS was that psychic powers just don't work on them.

I'd like to see some fluff where a Psyker hurls a Boulder at them and then it loses all momentum because they're "immune", and then it falls to the ground.

Don't throw it at them, just lift it above them.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sisters of Silence not being immune to Psykers is a travesty

Exactly. The whole point of the SoS was that psychic powers just don't work on them.

I'd like to see some fluff where a Psyker hurls a Boulder at them and then it loses all momentum because they're "immune", and then it falls to the ground.

Object thrown using a telekinesis is still a thrown object so they could be hurt. Telepathy directed at the SoS would fail every time. See the difference?

 Shadow Walker wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sisters of Silence not being immune to Psykers is a travesty

Exactly. The whole point of the SoS was that psychic powers just don't work on them.

I'd like to see some fluff where a Psyker hurls a Boulder at them and then it loses all momentum because they're "immune", and then it falls to the ground.

Object thrown using a telekinesis is still a thrown object so they could be hurt. Telepathy directed at the SoS would fail every time. See the difference?

How about lightning generated by a psyker then? Still electrocute them? My point being that by breaking down whether or not a psychic power should work on them by if it presents physical effects or not (which I imagine would be aruged no end) quickly sounds like rules bloat.

 Eldarsif wrote:

I mean, there are quite a few of these abilities in AoS and I don't really feel them as much. If anything I fear more just regular damage than mortal wounds.

thats because mortals wounds damage and regular damage behave the same in AoS.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:
So, this has all been fun and all, but let's start the Index leaks, yeah?

I am so goddam excited to start theorycrafting, it's not even funny.

same, i just want to have all the info on my factions

 Dawnbringer wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sisters of Silence not being immune to Psykers is a travesty

Exactly. The whole point of the SoS was that psychic powers just don't work on them.

I'd like to see some fluff where a Psyker hurls a Boulder at them and then it loses all momentum because they're "immune", and then it falls to the ground.

Object thrown using a telekinesis is still a thrown object so they could be hurt. Telepathy directed at the SoS would fail every time. See the difference?

How about lightning generated by a psyker then? Still electrocute them? My point being that by breaking down whether or not a psychic power should work on them by if it presents physical effects or not (which I imagine would be aruged no end) quickly sounds like rules bloat.

It will not because it is a psychic creation not the real/material world lightning summoned (and then left, just like the thrown stone, to do what it naturally do). But I get your point that either there are exceptions or there is total immunity, and both have their pros and cons (both from the rules and fluff perspective).

 Shadow Walker wrote:
It will not because it is a psychic creation not the real/material world lightning summoned (and then left, just like the thrown stone, to do what it naturally do). But I get your point that either there are exceptions or there is total immunity, and both have their pros and cons (both from the rules and fluff perspective).

What if you just used your powers to alter the static charge in the atmosphere, to create real lightning?

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sisters of Silence not being immune to Psykers is a travesty

Exactly. The whole point of the SoS was that psychic powers just don't work on them.

I'd like to see some fluff where a Psyker hurls a Boulder at them and then it loses all momentum because they're "immune", and then it falls to the ground.

Surely you can point to a piece of fluff in a codex or novel where the Psyker upon encountering a SoS goes "egads, a null witch, I shall have to pick up this rock with my mind and crush them with it"

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 Dawnbringer wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sisters of Silence not being immune to Psykers is a travesty

Exactly. The whole point of the SoS was that psychic powers just don't work on them.

I'd like to see some fluff where a Psyker hurls a Boulder at them and then it loses all momentum because they're "immune", and then it falls to the ground.

Object thrown using a telekinesis is still a thrown object so they could be hurt. Telepathy directed at the SoS would fail every time. See the difference?

How about lightning generated by a psyker then? Still electrocute them? My point being that by breaking down whether or not a psychic power should work on them by if it presents physical effects or not (which I imagine would be aruged no end) quickly sounds like rules bloat.

It will not because it is a psychic creation not the real/material world lightning summoned (and then left, just like the thrown stone, to do what it naturally do). But I get your point that either there are exceptions or there is total immunity, and both have their pros and cons (both from the rules and fluff perspective).

And it does not address why they went for the laziest most pathetic version instead of actually including some actual rules - like say they gave to Marine Librarians

As previously mentioned.

Make them cause battleshock in nearby Psykers, give them an aura to weaken ALL nearby Psykers, make them untargetable by non melee psyhic attacks

Designer Gary: "Yawn.... Nah just stick a condtional FNP on them and move on to a unit we are interested in.."..

Super lazy and pure gak

 Mr Morden wrote:

And it does not address why they went for the laziest most pathetic version instead of actually including some actual rules - like say they gave to Marine Librarians

Umm...they got same rule as librarian except better. Psychic defence in 10e is fnp vs damage by psychic. Librarian, sos, both same. Sos just saves more.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

I mean, there are quite a few of these abilities in AoS and I don't really feel them as much. If anything I fear more just regular damage than mortal wounds.

thats because mortals wounds damage and regular damage behave the same in AoS.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:
So, this has all been fun and all, but let's start the Index leaks, yeah?

I am so goddam excited to start theorycrafting, it's not even funny.

same, i just want to have all the info on my factions

I sort of hope they'll release the indexes and digital rules whent he preorder for Levithan is announced. That's going to be a long two weeks otherwise.

 Trickstick wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
It will not because it is a psychic creation not the real/material world lightning summoned (and then left, just like the thrown stone, to do what it naturally do). But I get your point that either there are exceptions or there is total immunity, and both have their pros and cons (both from the rules and fluff perspective).

What if you just used your powers to alter the static charge in the atmosphere, to create real lightning?

Then it, just as a real stone etc. (real being the key word) will hurt any Blank, unless they have some protection against such things.

 Sasori wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

I mean, there are quite a few of these abilities in AoS and I don't really feel them as much. If anything I fear more just regular damage than mortal wounds.

thats because mortals wounds damage and regular damage behave the same in AoS.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:
So, this has all been fun and all, but let's start the Index leaks, yeah?

I am so goddam excited to start theorycrafting, it's not even funny.

same, i just want to have all the info on my factions

I sort of hope they'll release the indexes and digital rules whent he preorder for Levithan is announced. That's going to be a long two weeks otherwise.

They'll put them up for preorder, you have to remember as much as they are available free online, there is a physical sale element to the indexes as well. They won't want to offer the online free before they can sell something.

tneva82 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

And it does not address why they went for the laziest most pathetic version instead of actually including some actual rules - like say they gave to Marine Librarians

Umm...they got same rule as librarian except better. Psychic defence in 10e is fnp vs damage by psychic. Librarian, sos, both same. Sos just saves more.

You are comparing apples to oranges. A librarian's psychic defense pales in comparison to the actual anti-psychic abilities of a null and also was only for himself and not a weakening radius effect. Granted, we have yet to see what detachments and strats will give SoS on that front, but I doubt it will be enough to make them seem or feel anything like the nulls they are supposed to represent, not to mention being worth fielding.

 ikeulhu wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

And it does not address why they went for the laziest most pathetic version instead of actually including some actual rules - like say they gave to Marine Librarians

Umm...they got same rule as librarian except better. Psychic defence in 10e is fnp vs damage by psychic. Librarian, sos, both same. Sos just saves more.

You are comparing apples to oranges. A librarian's psychic defense pales in comparison to the actual anti-psychic abilities of a null and also was only for himself and not a weakening radius effect. Granted, we have yet to see what detachments and strats will give SoS on that front, but I doubt it will be enough to make them seem or feel anything like the nulls they are supposed to represent, not to mention being worth fielding.

He wanted rule like librarians. I pointed out they got it except better. Funny that. Sos being better anti magic than librarian. Which they are in 10e.

Mr morden wanted librarian rule, they got it. Quoting him "actual rules like they gave to marine librarians".

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sisters of Silence not being immune to Psykers is a travesty

Exactly. The whole point of the SoS was that psychic powers just don't work on them.

I'd like to see some fluff where a Psyker hurls a Boulder at them and then it loses all momentum because they're "immune", and then it falls to the ground.

Well guess what in the current gak rules - they actaully do get to have a save against it - but try and influence their minds to make them miss more often or similar - and yeah thats fine.

 ikeulhu wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

And it does not address why they went for the laziest most pathetic version instead of actually including some actual rules - like say they gave to Marine Librarians

Umm...they got same rule as librarian except better. Psychic defence in 10e is fnp vs damage by psychic. Librarian, sos, both same. Sos just saves more.

You are comparing apples to oranges. A librarian's psychic defense pales in comparison to the actual anti-psychic abilities of a null and also was only for himself and not a weakening radius effect. Granted, we have yet to see what detachments and strats will give SoS on that front, but I doubt it will be enough to make them seem or feel anything like the nulls they are supposed to represent, not to mention being worth fielding.

Plus neither form of defense to means anything to the non-attack psychic powers, which we already know exist (thanks to the Knight Abominant). Who knew Sisters of Silence were vulnerable to psykers mentally panicking them?

What non-attack psychic powers have we seen so far?

 Trickstick wrote:
What non-attack psychic powers have we seen so far?

Fortune from Farseer, it is a protective power.

 Trickstick wrote:
What non-attack psychic powers have we seen so far?

Vortex Terrors from the Chaos Knight Abominant. At the start of the shooting phase, it picks a unit within 12" and they have to take a battleshock test.

Its Warp Storms power in the movement phase is also possibly not a 'psychic attack,' it just deals out mortal wounds on a 3+.

Rules debate on Warp Storms can wait, I'm not digging through the leaked rules atm. But Vortex Terrors absolutely works on SoS, and is the kind of direct mental attack that absolutely should not.

 Trickstick wrote:
What non-attack psychic powers have we seen so far?

Fortune, be'lakor "can't shoot us from 18"'", da jump, librarian had one as well.


Abomination knight had something(cause battleshock test?) As well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
What non-attack psychic powers have we seen so far?

Vortex Terrors from the Chaos Knight Abominant. At the start of the shooting phase, it picks a unit within 12" and they have to take a battleshock test.

Its Warp Storms power in the movement phase is also possibly not a 'psychic attack,' it just deals out mortal wounds on a 3+.

Rules debate on Warp Storms can wait, I'm not digging through the leaked rules atm. But Vortex Terrors absolutely works on SoS, and is the kind of direct mental attack that absolutely should not.

Any ability that does damage and has psychic is considered psychic attack as per 10e core rules.

And gw is moving away from ignore completely. Do you want immune to morale rules back as well?

tneva82 wrote:
And gw is moving away from ignore completely. Do you want immune to morale rules back as well?

On my models, yes. For anyone else’s it would be OP.

Dudeface wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

I mean, there are quite a few of these abilities in AoS and I don't really feel them as much. If anything I fear more just regular damage than mortal wounds.

thats because mortals wounds damage and regular damage behave the same in AoS.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:
So, this has all been fun and all, but let's start the Index leaks, yeah?

I am so goddam excited to start theorycrafting, it's not even funny.

same, i just want to have all the info on my factions

I sort of hope they'll release the indexes and digital rules whent he preorder for Levithan is announced. That's going to be a long two weeks otherwise.

They'll put them up for preorder, you have to remember as much as they are available free online, there is a physical sale element to the indexes as well. They won't want to offer the online free before they can sell something.

I didn't know they were producing a hard copy of the Indexes, just the Datacards. You'd want the physical datacards either way I would think.

 Sasori wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

I mean, there are quite a few of these abilities in AoS and I don't really feel them as much. If anything I fear more just regular damage than mortal wounds.

thats because mortals wounds damage and regular damage behave the same in AoS.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:
So, this has all been fun and all, but let's start the Index leaks, yeah?

I am so goddam excited to start theorycrafting, it's not even funny.

same, i just want to have all the info on my factions

I sort of hope they'll release the indexes and digital rules whent he preorder for Levithan is announced. That's going to be a long two weeks otherwise.

They'll put them up for preorder, you have to remember as much as they are available free online, there is a physical sale element to the indexes as well. They won't want to offer the online free before they can sell something.

I didn't know they were producing a hard copy of the Indexes, just the Datacards. You'd want the physical datacards either way I would think.

They're the same thing, the datacards are the index in this case.

tneva82 wrote:
And gw is moving away from ignore completely. Do you want immune to morale rules back as well?

Which is why I disagree when people say that commissars will kill a guardsmen for ignoring battleshock. I think a higher LD and kill for a reroll, maybe some other buff like immune to modifiers or something. Trying to think of the correct buff level when you are killing a model is hard. You dont want it to be immunity, but a model is worth something.

 Trickstick wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
And gw is moving away from ignore completely. Do you want immune to morale rules back as well?

Which is why I disagree when people say that commissars will kill a guardsmen for ignoring battleshock. I think a higher LD and kill for a reroll, maybe some other buff like immune to modifiers or something. Trying to think of the correct buff level when you are killing a model is hard. You dont want it to be immunity, but a model is worth something.

Spending a resource to auto-pass I think is different from blanket immunity.

It does let the guard ignore leadership shenanigans from other armies, but at a cost. Yes, morale tricks are a key feature of some armies, but so is the commissar’s summery execution. You don’t want to have something just outright invalidate someone’s army. But presumably the commissar can only do it to the squad he’s attached to, so Night Lords and DE can go terrorize the rest of the army. Seems fair.

We will obviously see what they end up going with.