10th Edition Rumour Roundup - in the grim darkness of the far future, there are only power levels

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**Voss**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
So the psychic ability doesn't really do anything.

Total War Warhammer has this odd issue where some things get 'Flaming Attacks', but flaming attacks don't really do anything beyond what regular attacks do. It's not extra damage, it's just an attack which is "Flaming".

Units with regeneration are vulnerable to Flaming attacks as it negates their regeneration, however there are far more things in the game with varying levels of flame resistance than there are with regeneration. Thus, in effect, flaming attacks are more of a detriment than a boon, as in most cases they make the enemy less vulnerable to your attacks.

So far all "Psychic" seems to do is give certain units a better chance of avoiding it.

Right now, mostly. But we just got shown a strat giving Devastating Wounds to psychic melee attacks.
Also right now, psychic defense is limited to librarians and sisters of silence. Neither ahriman nor farseers have it. (And farseers generally have had some form of warp protection, even if just in a silly hat)

**H.B.M.C.**

But consider Psycannons and Psylencers (but, confusingly, not Incinerators...)... they are "Psychic" and that does... what?

It's confusing.

**Tsagualsa**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
But consider Psycannons and Psylencers (but, confusingly, not Incinerators...)... they are "Psychic" and that does... what?

It's confusing.

It does nothing on its own, but it interacts with other abilities. We have seen a Stratagem that tacks stuff on [Psychic] melee attacks, i guarantee you that there is other stuff that affects [Psychic] shooting as well.

**oni**

Tsagualsa wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
But consider Psycannons and Psylencers (but, confusingly, not Incinerators...)... they are "Psychic" and that does... what?

It's confusing.

... i guarantee you that there is other stuff that affects [Psychic] shooting as well.

^A bold statement.

I suspect [Psychic] will be nothing more than a background noise keyword among all the other weapon rules and have near zero counter play.

**Mr_Rose**

Tsagualsa wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
But consider Psycannons and Psylencers (but, confusingly, not Incinerators...)... they are "Psychic" and that does... what?

It's confusing.

It does nothing on its own, but it interacts with other abilities. We have seen a Stratagem that tacks stuff on [Psychic] melee attacks, i guarantee you that there is other stuff that affects [Psychic] shooting as well.

Yeah, at the moment it’s basically a keyword. Which makes it a bit goofy to see mixed in with the ability words for the weapons but imho beats having to have a separate space for it on the other end of the weapon profile.

And yeah the melee weapons gaining devastating wounds seems like a great match for a grandmaster in baby carrier with giant sword. Just use the 10A profile and the other ability to proc as many as possible vs a monster/vehicle.

**oni**

I agree with HBMC in that we're starting to see some annoying inconsistencies and some missed opportunities.

We all just have to wait until the codexes start coming. Then we'll get a better idea of how 10th is going to shape up.

**Mr Morden**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
But consider Psycannons and Psylencers (but, confusingly, not Incinerators...)... they are "Psychic" and that does... what?

It's confusing.

Also the Warpflame weapons of the Thousand Sons are not Pyschic....

**xttz**

Mr Morden wrote:

Also the Warpflame weapons of the Thousand Sons are not Pyschic....

Because they're just guns used by Rubric marines, who aren't psykers (or even technically alive). The rules tagged with PSYCHIC are used by the single sorcerer in the unit.

oni wrote:

^A bold statement.

I suspect [Psychic] will be nothing more than a background noise keyword among all the other weapon rules and have near zero counter play.

This is a fairly bold statement considering that just the handful of datasheets shown so far there have been at least 3 examples of counter play to enemy psychic attacks. We still have literally hundreds of datasheets & stratagems to see.

Spoiler:

**Voss**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
But consider Psycannons and Psylencers (but, confusingly, not Incinerators...)... they are "Psychic" and that does... what?

It's confusing.

It gives librarians and sisters of silence FNP saves, and triggers off of various stratagem effects.

Keywords that do nothing until referenced have been the staple since 8th edition. It shouldn't start to be confusing now.

**Daedalus81**

Souleater wrote:
Being able to swap flanks, drop on any objective every turn seems incredibly strong.

(People complained about the GSC redeploy strat when I used it.)

Plus they get gain Fly when they auto advance 6”…

All on super heavy infantry.

As some that loves fast, manoeuvreable armies, this seems a tad over tuned.

At the same time they'll have limited options for assault weapons and few if any advance and charge since you can't pick spells.

**Boosykes**

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Daedalus81 wrote:
Souleater wrote:
Being able to swap flanks, drop on any objective every turn seems incredibly strong.

(People complained about the GSC redeploy strat when I used it.)

Plus they get gain Fly when they auto advance 6”…

All on super heavy infantry.

As some that loves fast, manoeuvreable armies, this seems a tad over tuned.

Ya hopefully they have a squad with a spell and a strategem for charging after tellyporting. I think that would really make this come together and shine.

**Lord Damocles**

Another random-but-apparently-faction-defining ability to add to the list: Grey Knights just teleporting all over the place, regardless of whether they have personal teleporter packs or not.

It must be chaos in their Striker Cruiser's teleportarium...

**Mr Morden**

xttz wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:

Also the Warpflame weapons of the Thousand Sons are not Pyschic....

Because they're just guns used by Rubric marines, who aren't psykers (or even technically alive). The rules tagged with PSYCHIC are used by the single sorcerer in the unit.

Spoiler:

Ah its just a very misleading name then....cos it sure sounds like WARP ie Psyker weapon

Same with the Mutalith Warp Vortex: Channel the pure essence of the immaterium through its warp vortex – mutating foes into misshapen forms incapable of posing a threat. So somehow not a psyker weapon.....

**H.B.M.C.**

Voss wrote:
It gives librarians and sisters of silence FNP saves, and triggers off of various stratagem effects.

Which is my point. Right now having the psychic ability only makes your weapons worse or do nothing else, hence my Total War Warhammer Flaming attacks example.

Voss wrote:
Keywords that do nothing until referenced have been the staple since 8th edition. It shouldn't start to be confusing now.

That... that wasn't what I was saying at all. Psychic appears to do nothing, whereas other weapon effects (like Rapid Fire, or Torrent or whatever) have immediate effects. Psychic just triggers helpful things in other units, and inherently does nothing for the weapon itself. That's weird.

**EviscerationPlague**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
But consider Psycannons and Psylencers (but, confusingly, not Incinerators...)... they are "Psychic" and that does... what?

It's confusing.

Incinerators were not listed as a Psi Weapon for 8th-9th though, correct?

Psychic is just a keyword. You're overthinking it.

**Voss**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Voss wrote:
It gives librarians and sisters of silence FNP saves, and triggers off of various stratagem effects.
Which is my point. Right now having the psychic ability only makes your weapons worse or do nothing else, hence my Total War Warhammer Flaming attacks example.

Voss wrote:
Keywords that do nothing until referenced have been the staple since 8th edition. It shouldn't start to be confusing now.
That... that wasn't what I was saying at all. Psychic appears to do nothing, whereas other weapon effects (like Rapid Fire, or Torrent or whatever) have immediate effects. Psychic just triggers helpful things in other units, and inherently does nothing for the weapon itself. That's weird.

That may not be 'what you're saying,' but that's clearly how its being used, and its consistent with how things have been done for 5-6 years now.
That being 'confusing' or 'weird' is passe at this point- it feels like a pretense. (are you also confused by smoke or grenades? Because they're the same. Note- I didn't 'don't like,' I said 'confused')

It also (again) triggers helpful things on the attack itself. See the strat that they just put on display alongside these abilities.

**Mr Morden**

Psychic sould really do something against daemons....who should really have Psychic melee attacks?

**Voss**

Mr Morden wrote:
Psychic sould really do something against daemons....who should really have Psychic melee attacks?

That's a drive straight into rock/paper/scissors land. Except without scissors. No thanks.

**Dawnbringer**

Voss wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Psychic sould really do something against daemons....who should really have Psychic melee attacks?

That's a drive straight into rock/paper/scissors land. Except without scissors. No thanks.

Yeah, I yet the desire to be thematic and in accordance with lore and all, but hard(ish) counters don't work if you want to have pickup / tournament games that are remotely balanced. Because either those abilities are either free, and thus a distinct advantage against certain armies (e.g. Grey Knights vs Daemons), or they are costed, and thus you are at a disadvantage against anyone but them.

**Sasori**

Dawnbringer wrote:
Voss wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Psychic sould really do something against daemons....who should really have Psychic melee attacks?

That's a drive straight into rock/paper/scissors land. Except without scissors. No thanks.

Yeah, I yet the desire to be thematic and in accordance with lore and all, but hard(ish) counters don't work if you want to have pickup / tournament games that are remotely balanced. Because either those abilities are either free, and thus a distinct advantage against certain armies (e.g. Grey Knights vs Daemons), or they are costed, and thus you are at a disadvantage against anyone but them.

100%. I am not sad to see these type of rules go, as well as presumably the anti-faction stratagems.

**tneva82**

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Query: Do we know yet what the Psychic ability actually does?

Yea like for a month. Interacts with various stuff like psychic hood giving fnp against wounds caused by psychic. Here we saw another use with stratagem.

On it's own nothing.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr Morden wrote:
xttz wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:

Also the Warpflame weapons of the Thousand Sons are not Pyschic....

Because they're just guns used by Rubric marines, who aren't psykers (or even technically alive). The rules tagged with PSYCHIC are used by the single sorcerer in the unit.

Spoiler:

Ah its just a very misleading name then....cos it sure sounds like WARP ie Psyker weapon

Same with the Mutalith Warp Vortex: Channel the pure essence of the immaterium through its warp vortex – mutating foes into misshapen forms incapable of posing a threat. So somehow not a psyker weapon.....

And it's problem now because...why? Why now and not when flamers were introduced to tsons?

How non-psyker would use psyker weapon anyway?

**cuda1179**

I'm a bit confused about the Grand Master only having a WS of 3+.

**The Red Hobbit**

Mr Morden wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
But consider Psycannons and Psylencers (but, confusingly, not Incinerators...)... they are "Psychic" and that does... what?

It's confusing.

Also the Warpflame weapons of the Thousand Sons are not Pyschic....

I suspect we'll see a 1k Sons stratagem that lets the warpflame weapons gain the Psychic keyword for a phase which would tie into the detachment trait.

**Jadenim**

Lord Damocles wrote:
Another random-but-apparently-faction-defining ability to add to the list: Grey Knights just teleporting all over the place, regardless of whether they have personal teleporter packs or not.

Which does rather beg the question of what the ones equipped with personal teleported packs will be able to do?!

Lord Damocles wrote:
It must be chaos in their Striker Cruiser's teleportarium...

Given their entire raison d’etre, I would hope not…

**EviscerationPlague**

cuda1179 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about the Grand Master only having a WS of 3+.

The Fists hit on a 2+

**Nevelon**

EviscerationPlague wrote:
cuda1179 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about the Grand Master only having a WS of 3+.

The Fists hit on a 2+

Looks like 3/4. Was surprised, as I though they would be 2/3. But don’t play GKs.

**ikeulhu**

Jadenim wrote:
Lord Damocles wrote:
Another random-but-apparently-faction-defining ability to add to the list: Grey Knights just teleporting all over the place, regardless of whether they have personal teleporter packs or not.

Which does rather beg the question of what the ones equipped with personal teleported packs will be able to do?!

Probably have fly and 12" move default, and possibly a built in ability that works like the Faction one so you can save using that for other units.

**alextroy**

cuda1179 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about the Grand Master only having a WS of 3+.

I guess GW decided that strapping yourself into a giant suit of armor that mimics your movements is not the most fluid thing in the 41st Millennium.

**Daedalus81**

So Thousand Sons can hard counter GK.

Spoiler:

So what GK should do is target multiple units when they shoot. If TS pops it then they target the other unit. But then the TS player could understand this and play in a way that allows that strat to be a 'you can't target this unit' sort. And they could get more clever and try and make it so it's hard to target two TS units at the same time by spreading out forcing the GK player to take it. But then the GK player can use their shunts to reposition and get a better angle.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Melee against TS will be real sketchy though. You'll want to bleed that CP in the shooting phase. If you can convince them to use it.

**EviscerationPlague**

Nevelon wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
cuda1179 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about the Grand Master only having a WS of 3+.

The Fists hit on a 2+

Looks like 3/4. Was surprised, as I though they would be 2/3. But don’t play GKs.

Huh, well that'll teach me to post by memory.