10th Edition Rumour Roundup - in the grim darkness of the far future, there are only power levels

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Sasori**

Daedalus81 wrote:
So Thousand Sons can hard counter GK.

Spoiler:

So what GK should do is target multiple units when they shoot. If TS pops it then they target the other unit. But then the TS player could understand this and play in a way that allows that strat to be a 'you can't target this unit' sort. And they could get more clever and try and make it so it's hard to target two TS units at the same time by spreading out forcing the GK player to take it. But then the GK player can use their shunts to reposition and get a better angle.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Melee against TS will be real sketchy though. You'll want to bleed that CP in the shooting phase. If you can convince them to use it.

and make sure you've burned up the Cabal points too.

Yeah, it's a rough stratagem for GK to deal with right now. But their mobility is going to be running circles around us

**Hamburger Helper**

cuda1179 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about the Grand Master only having a WS of 3+.

I see it as looking a bit of finesse because he's driving the warsuit, so it doesn't feel as natural to swing a sword with that as it would with your real arm.

**cuda1179**

Hamburger Helper wrote:
cuda1179 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about the Grand Master only having a WS of 3+.

I see it as looking a bit of finesse because he's driving the warsuit, so it doesn't feel as natural to swing a sword with that as it would with your real arm.

While I agree with the real world rationalization, I then look at the dreadnought and Invictus warsuit with a raised eyebrow.

**Da Butcha**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I can't be the only one who thinks the emphasis on teleportation as an army-defining rule is a bit odd. The specific detachment is a Teleport Strike Force, for which this rule works wonderfully well, but presumably there will be other GK detachments that don't have such an emphasis on teleportation, and yet this rule will remain?

I'm not saying that GKs shouldn't have teleportation rules - they're GKs; of course they should! - but they should be native to the units in question, not a blanket rule that allows for oddities like teleporting Land Raiders.

It just screams "Flanderisation". GKs once had an emphasis on teleporting elite Terminators, that was transferred to regular Power Armour Squads with Teleport Attack Squads, who eventually morphed into teleport-jump pack troops, to teleporting Dreadknights, to emergency teleporting shunt units... to teleporting Land Raiders. It's nearly Space Wolves levels of conceptual drift.

It is very weird. I can see an emphasis on the teleportation in the Teleport Strike Force detachment*, but it seems odd that an army ENTIRELY of psychics, specifically created to fight daemons and daemonic foes, has an Army Rule that has absolutely nothing to do with the use of psychic powers, and nothing to do with combating daemons/psychic powers/warp energy.

*Say a teleportation Strat that has its cost reduced to 0CP when used on a unit with the teleporty thingies?

**Hellebore**

I assume they're trying to reduce 2+ to hit on big weapons? Like wraithknights and knights?

Also they have rerolls on everything so I don't think it's that big a deal.

**Spoletta**

He doesn't reroll everything.
He rerolls only in melee and only against monster/vehicles.

Even with the sweep of the sword he is killing a grand total of 4 guardsmen.

He is going to be a very finesse model to play. You need to land him on the right targets. Fail that and he gets swarmed by infantry. Remember that they can't deep strike away if they are in melee.

Or play against knights I guess... at least only one GMDK can reroll per round.

**Las**

Da Butcha wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
I can't be the only one who thinks the emphasis on teleportation as an army-defining rule is a bit odd. The specific detachment is a Teleport Strike Force, for which this rule works wonderfully well, but presumably there will be other GK detachments that don't have such an emphasis on teleportation, and yet this rule will remain?

I'm not saying that GKs shouldn't have teleportation rules - they're GKs; of course they should! - but they should be native to the units in question, not a blanket rule that allows for oddities like teleporting Land Raiders.

It just screams "Flanderisation". GKs once had an emphasis on teleporting elite Terminators, that was transferred to regular Power Armour Squads with Teleport Attack Squads, who eventually morphed into teleport-jump pack troops, to teleporting Dreadknights, to emergency teleporting shunt units... to teleporting Land Raiders. It's nearly Space Wolves levels of conceptual drift.

It is very weird. I can see an emphasis on the teleportation in the Teleport Strike Force detachment*, but it seems odd that an army ENTIRELY of psychics, specifically created to fight daemons and daemonic foes, has an Army Rule that has absolutely nothing to do with the use of psychic powers, and nothing to do with combating daemons/psychic powers/warp energy.

*Say a teleportation Strat that has its cost reduced to 0CP when used on a unit with the teleporty thingies?

I think this is potentially a much more interesting way of being tooled to fighting daemons. Instead of a boring "reroll to wound against daemons!" they have a movement mechanic that allows them to react to the daemon ability to deep strike all over the battle field.

**xttz**

Spoletta wrote:
He doesn't reroll everything.
He rerolls only in melee and only against monster/vehicles.

Even with the sweep of the sword he is killing a grand total of 4 guardsmen.

He is going to be a very finesse model to play. You need to land him on the right targets. Fail that and he gets swarmed by infantry. Remember that they can't deep strike away if they are in melee.

Or play against knights I guess... at least only one GMDK can reroll per round.

A trend I'm noticing in these previews is that units generally have more clearly distinct roles now, thanks to the wider range of defensive profiles across the game. For example, Swarmlord has gone from being effectively anti-everything to more specifically anti-elite/TEQ. Picking a one-size-fits-all unit that counters all possible threats seems to be something they've actively avoiding.

**Voss**

alextroy wrote:
cuda1179 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about the Grand Master only having a WS of 3+.
I guess GW decided that strapping yourself into a giant suit of armor that mimics your movements is not the most fluid thing in the 41st Millennium.

Strapping your armor into a giant suit of armor. Can't forget the stacking absurdity of the baby carrier.

**The Red Hobbit**

Voss wrote:
alextroy wrote:
cuda1179 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about the Grand Master only having a WS of 3+.
I guess GW decided that strapping yourself into a giant suit of armor that mimics your movements is not the most fluid thing in the 41st Millennium.

Strapping your armor into a giant suit of armor. Can't forget the stacking absurdity of the baby carrier.

I was honestly surprised they doubled down on the baby carrier with the Paragon Warsuit and Invictus releases. Invictus at least looks like a dread so it's not as painful to look at as a GK baby carrier ripping off Ripley.

Although I guess if we go by the armor-inside-armor has a worse WS then we should see the same for the above mentioned and perhaps even the Centurions.

**Daedalus81**

Las wrote:
I think this is potentially a much more interesting way of being tooled to fighting daemons. Instead of a boring "reroll to wound against daemons!" they have a movement mechanic that allows them to react to the daemon ability to deep strike all over the battle field.

Which fits for them interacting with their shadow by going into or out of it as needed and the units pulled from the table are technically immune to battleshock.

**Sasori**

xttz wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
He doesn't reroll everything.
He rerolls only in melee and only against monster/vehicles.

Even with the sweep of the sword he is killing a grand total of 4 guardsmen.

He is going to be a very finesse model to play. You need to land him on the right targets. Fail that and he gets swarmed by infantry. Remember that they can't deep strike away if they are in melee.

Or play against knights I guess... at least only one GMDK can reroll per round.

A trend I'm noticing in these previews is that units generally have more clearly distinct roles now, thanks to the wider range of defensive profiles across the game. For example, Swarmlord has gone from being effectively anti-everything to more specifically anti-elite/TEQ. Picking a one-size-fits-all unit that counters all possible threats seems to be something they've actively avoiding.

There has been a few discussions, from folks involved in the process that this was a big design philosophy for 10th. They didn't want to see the same datasheets spammed 3x over and over again because so many units could do everything. Between the missions and greater emphasis on Datasheet abilities they trying to make it so a wide Varity of units have diffrent purposes and utility.

Now, if they succeed on that is another question entirely.

**H.B.M.C.**

The Red Hobbit wrote:
I was honestly surprised they doubled down on the baby carrier with the Paragon Warsuit and Invictus releases. Invictus at least looks like a dread so it's not as painful to look at as a GK baby carrier ripping off Ripley.

But the Paragon Warsuit isn't a baby carrier. The reason the Dreadknight is so derided is because the entire Grey Knight is just hanging there - like a carried baby! - and it comes across as really silly. The Sister piloting a Paragon is far more integrated into the suit, with her legs inside the suits legs.

Incidentally, this is what the Dreadknight would have been before the design was scaled up/ruined:

Spoiler:

If the Dreadknight had looked like that, it wouldn't nearly be the meme that it is today.

**The Red Hobbit**

Well the proportions are better but she still looks like she's riding around in a toddler sized baby bjorn

. I remember when the Paragon came out there was some discussion about proportions where the warsuit has knee joints but it looks as though the operator has to remain stiff legged while operating. I personally think the whole thing would have looked a lot better with an optional cape or cloak to go with it. And agreed, the artwork for the dreadknight looks good, unlike the goofy model.

**Tsagualsa**

Valrak's website mining that dug up the 'Battle of Oghram' seems to have been right:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/28/feeling-rough-take-a-holiday-under-the-sunlit-skies-of-the-galactic-west/

The video mentions that name.

**Dysartes**

...are those the same Death Guard Space Marine Heroes models as were available previously (bar the Plaguecaster)?

**GaroRobe**

Dysartes wrote:
...are those the same Death Guard Space Marine Heroes models as were available previously (bar the Plaguecaster)?

Yep.

Feth me. I knew I'd regret picking up the plaguecaster for scalper prices off ebay

Im glad other people will have the chance to own one though, plus now I can get a spare. Plus it'll screw over scalpers, since I saw one going for $400 the other week

Why re-release the plague marines though? We saw that the Fourth wave was primaris so are they not gonna be released yet?

**Nevelon**

We can mine the battle report for details on Wed, and new faction focues for the week

GW wrote:It’s a big week for Warhammer+, as the first Battle Report from the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 stars the headline acts from the awesome Leviathan box set. It’s totally free to watch, even if you’re not a current Warhammer+ subscriber.

Meanwhile, our Faction Focus series reaches the home stretch, with only the Drukhari, Genestealer Cults, and Imperial Agents left, plus a combined look at the various Space Marine chapters who don’t play by the Codex Astartes’ rules. We’re going to end things with a bang – so look forward to your first encounter with Titans in 10th edition this Friday.

**Tsagualsa**

Nevelon wrote:
We can mine the battle report for details on Wed, and new faction focues for the week

GW wrote:It’s a big week for Warhammer+, as the first Battle Report from the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 stars the headline acts from the awesome Leviathan box set. It’s totally free to watch, even if you’re not a current Warhammer+ subscriber.

Meanwhile, our Faction Focus series reaches the home stretch, with only the Drukhari, Genestealer Cults, and Imperial Agents left, plus a combined look at the various Space Marine chapters who don’t play by the Codex Astartes’ rules. We’re going to end things with a bang – so look forward to your first encounter with Titans in 10th edition this Friday.

That's pretty much what i guessed some days ago, one focus for divergent marines and one for Imperial Armour. I hope the battle report comes with datasheet reveals for the bloatbug and the brainbug...

**H.B.M.C.**

Hey, cool, the Plague Marines are coming out with the extremely hard to find Plaguecaster.

**Jidmah**

Finally. I'm not even mad about having to get a second set of the regular dudes, as they really help with some of the biggest mono-pose offenders - the flail, icon bearer and plague spitter marine are very recognizable as twins when you have multiple near each other on the table top.

**Voss**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hey, cool, the Plague Marines are coming out with the extremely hard to find Plaguecaster.

In random packs. The best sales model!

**H.B.M.C.**

It's not really random. You buy the box you get all 7, and then an 8th which is random. Hell, when I bought them it was a box with 6 boxes in it, and I got one of each, and then the Plagecaster came in a paintset.

They're only random if you buy the single miniature boxes individually.

**Voss**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's not really random. You buy the box you get all 7, and then an 8th which is random. Hell, when I bought them it was a box with 6 boxes in it, and I got one of each, and then the Plagecaster came in a paintset.

They're only random if you buy the single miniature boxes individually.

But at a significantly higher price per model than just buying a normal squad.
Its random but you can pay a penalty to remove the randomness isn't a selling point

**Jidmah**

Voss wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hey, cool, the Plague Marines are coming out with the extremely hard to find Plaguecaster.

In random packs. The best sales model!

We were able to buy the whole set minus the plague caster before. You just buy the whole box and get all of them plus a random one. Last time the price for all miniatures was roughly the same as for a regular box of plague marines. I paid 38.40€, plague marines at the same vendor are 36€.

**Voss**

Jidmah wrote:
Voss wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hey, cool, the Plague Marines are coming out with the extremely hard to find Plaguecaster.

In random packs. The best sales model!

We were able to buy the whole set minus the plague caster before. You just buy the whole box and get all of them plus a random one. Last time the price for all miniatures was roughly the same as for a regular box of plague marines. I paid 38.40€, plague marines at the same vendor are 36€.

Don't know what to tell you, or speak for your vendor. A quick check of the normal prices said the last series was $8 per model, for a total of $64 for a not-random box of 8, Where a normal box of primaris marines is $60 (for 10) or $6 per model. Tacticals are now somehow that same price (and HH tacticals less per model). That seems like a pretty penalty for un-randoming.

**H.B.M.C.**

*shrugs*

I paid $146 for all 7, plus a paint set (which is usually around AUD$80). Box'o'Plague Marines is $91. Given the difficulty of getting the minis - especially the Plaguecaster - it seemed alright to me.

**Jidmah**

Voss wrote:
Don't know what to tell you, or speak for your vendor. A quick check of the normal prices said the last series was $8 per model, for a total of $64 for a not-random box of 8, Where a normal box of primaris marines is $60 (for 10) or $6 per model. Tacticals are now somehow that same price (and HH tacticals less per model). That seems like a pretty penalty for un-randoming.

So you are pulling numbers out of your ass and rambling about completely unrelated models, while I'm quoting an actual receipt from when I literally bought these very models. Gotcha.

I'll see you tomorrow for the next episode of "Voss hates everything!". I'm truly sorry for having responded to you.

**Sgt. Cortez**

So it says "while you'll be able to buy these individually at selected stockists" - does that mean I can easily pick up the sorceror or does it refer to blind buys?
I really don’t need the others a 2nd time.

**H.B.M.C.**

Individuals would be blind buys.