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tneva82 wrote:
Nobody seems to have noticed variant marine article out

+1a and s blood angel detachwent bonu

+1W for storm shields is great.

Biasn wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Biasn wrote:
What are these rules for Daddy Simba? 3++ , 4+++ against mortals , -1 to wound with damage reflection AND first strike so he minces everything in melee before even getting attacked? how are you supposed to kill this abomination. Has to be half of your 2000pt army to not be auto include in every list lol

Just shoot him

With what? Everything shy of a lascannon wounds on a 6+

High rate of fire stuff with devastating wounds

Given you select your detachment when list-building, the only way you'll tailor that heavily to TSons only the fly is if you already selected it or you're list tailoring... and unless you've really stacked up on Devastating Wound melee weapons (I don't think we've seen any so far for Marines?) Anti-Psyker 4+ is extremely meaningless again most infantry Psykers

Christ those Deathwatch Rules. You get three doctrines, one per turn once each, and that wargear is disgusting. They combined the: Shotgun, stalker Bolter, all 4 combi-weapons, all 4 special weapons, storm bolter, and all 5 pistols into one statline, they combined all 4 power weapons, lightning claw, chainsword, and either the regular or heavy thunder hammer into one weapon as well. No more heavy weapons besides the frag cannon and Infurnus bolter, no blackshields, and no combat shield. Christ alive.

What having to be on an index card does to you when you have 32 options, 34 on the sarge.

And if your faction doesnt have that exact weapon profile (or just not en masse) you are gimped? Yeah nice.

No way he should have -1 to wound with that profile nor should a 3++ be in the game imo

 Daedalus81 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Nobody seems to have noticed variant marine article out

+1a and s blood angel detachwent bonu

+1W for storm shields is great.

Sometimes? Its mathematically weird. Against certain weapons and damage numbers, particularly 2, (or d6+3, though that's obviously less of an issue) it makes no difference at all.

Biasn wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Biasn wrote:
What are these rules for Daddy Simba? 3++ , 4+++ against mortals , -1 to wound with damage reflection AND first strike so he minces everything in melee before even getting attacked? how are you supposed to kill this abomination. Has to be half of your 2000pt army to not be auto include in every list lol

Just shoot him

With what? Everything shy of a lascannon wounds on a 6+

Concentrated beams of seething resentment.

Biasn wrote:
And if your faction doesnt have that exact weapon profile (or just not en masse) you are gimped? Yeah nice.

No way he should have -1 to wound with that profile nor should a 3++ be in the game imo

Just ignore him then, or feed him shitters, or focus on the deathwings that will probably have a better impact than him.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 kodos wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Competitive has firmly subdued mere matchedplay locally. So my decimator is basically a nono. Just as my R&H were turned into a nono earlier in 9th.
And from that experience i can tell you, that either you are lucky and have a decent local community or if you have a mtached-comp minded one then you have some very expensive paperweights now.

such things are not true, GW will never to that, old models are perfectly fine and you can just proxy and don't need to buy anything new /s

"But look, those totally greatly crafted legends rules, that will (selfadmittedly) never be looked at in the whole edition."

Every other company would've gotten flak for planned obsolesence in their product.

this is the one thing GW does better than anyone else, that everyone gets the hate except those responsible for it

be it the people who point it out, be it the players, be it the designers, everyone else except GW itself
they are just a poor company that can do nothing about it.....

Voss wrote:
Huh. mixed feelings on this.

For the snowflakes themselves, this seems fine. They can always take their special stuff. They can straight swap detachment abilities (rule, strats, enhancements) for a more 'thematic' set of detachment abilities.

I know some people will get bent out of shape about the fact that any space marine chapter can take any detachment, but I honestly don't care (though it would've been easier with different names 'righteous crusaders' rather than 'black templar righteous crusaders', that's just rubbing someone's nose in it)

----
However... the detachment rules make the flaw in the detachment system really obvious (and expected). These rules are NOT equal.
And space marines will have a giant pile of options to swap between on the fly. Facing Thousand Sons? Take the crusade and the anti-psyker vow. Built a smash army? Take red thirst. etc, etc.

This is my concern, by making it so the detachments are marine-wide, that gives a veritable smorgasbord of options to marines for very little in return.

Voss wrote:
However... the detachment rules make the flaw in the detachment system really obvious (and expected). These rules are NOT equal.
And space marines will have a giant pile of options to swap between on the fly. Facing Thousand Sons? Take the crusade and the anti-psyker vow. Built a smash army? Take red thirst. etc, etc.

should have moved all those to legends and only kept one if it is too difficult to balance it /s

 kodos wrote:

this is the one thing GW does better than anyone else, that everyone gets the hate except those responsible for it

be it the people who point it out, be it the players, be it the designers, everyone else except GW itself
they are just a poor company that can do nothing about it.....

Guess so.

Guess i am done... Rip the pride of my collection. Forced to remain a paperweight.

Alas he now counts as an HH unit... according to GW... despite the first decimator apearing sometimes during 35 + onwards.

Biasn wrote:
What are these rules for Daddy Simba? 3++ , 4+++ against mortals , -1 to wound with damage reflection AND first strike so he minces everything in melee before even getting attacked? how are you supposed to kill this abomination. Has to be half of your 2000pt army to not be auto include in every list lol
And even untargetable beyond 12"? I really dont know how to feel about this

If he deepstrikes he won't have an ability on. He would also be putting himself within 12" of overwatch rendering Lone Operative useless even if he comes in with terminators. This means he probably has to do a bit of walking to be properly safe, but I am interested to see points.

Voss wrote:

However... the detachment rules make the flaw in the detachment system really obvious (and expected). These rules are NOT equal.
And space marines will have a giant pile of options to swap between on the fly. Facing Thousand Sons? Take the crusade and the anti-psyker vow. Built a smash army? Take red thirst. etc, etc.

You won't be able to take these detachments as a codex compliant chapter tho. Theyre locked to DA/SW/BT/DW.

Also, detachments are picked in listbuilding, you can't show up to a game, know what you're facing and then pick accordingly

Charax wrote:
It's not just Dreadnought variations, Dreadnoughts are listed too.

Looks like venerable ol' stumpy isn't in the main range anymore, relegated to Legendhood.

All Is Primaris

If you read the whole line, it's referring to the dreadnought drop pod.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Biasn wrote:
What are these rules for Daddy Simba? 3++ , 4+++ against mortals , -1 to wound with damage reflection AND first strike so he minces everything in melee before even getting attacked? how are you supposed to kill this abomination. Has to be half of your 2000pt army to not be auto include in every list lol
And even untargetable beyond 12"? I really dont know how to feel about this

If he deepstrikes he won't have an ability on. He would also be putting himself within 12" of overwatch rendering Lone Operative useless even if he comes in with terminators. This means he probably has to do a bit of walking to be properly safe, but I am interested to see points.

He will also fail his charge 52% of the time then be in range to get peppered by your whole army. My prediction : he's not gonna be played. (Be sure to put it back in my face if he is )

Voss wrote:
Sometimes? Its mathematically weird. Against certain weapons and damage numbers, particularly 2, (or d6+3, though that's obviously less of an issue) it makes no difference at all.

If they let you mix it gives you an allocation advantage and since you no longer care about an improved save the D2 / D6+1 can go to W3 and the D3 / D6+2 can go to W4 -- provided your models are unwounded at the time, but that doesn't change the outcome.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Voss wrote:

However... the detachment rules make the flaw in the detachment system really obvious (and expected). These rules are NOT equal.
And space marines will have a giant pile of options to swap between on the fly. Facing Thousand Sons? Take the crusade and the anti-psyker vow. Built a smash army? Take red thirst. etc, etc.

You won't be able to take these detachments as a codex compliant chapter tho. Theyre locked to DA/SW/BT/DW.

Also, detachments are picked in listbuilding, you can't show up to a game, know what you're facing and then pick accordingly

"This means that any Space Marine army can choose to use these Detachments should they see fit, provided they abide by their restrictions" from the article

Hamburger Helper wrote:

Charax wrote:
It's not just Dreadnought variations, Dreadnoughts are listed too.

Looks like venerable ol' stumpy isn't in the main range anymore, relegated to Legendhood.

All Is Primaris

If you read the whole line, it's referring to the dreadnought drop pod.

are Javelins drop pod a thing?

Biasn wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Biasn wrote:
What are these rules for Daddy Simba? 3++ , 4+++ against mortals , -1 to wound with damage reflection AND first strike so he minces everything in melee before even getting attacked? how are you supposed to kill this abomination. Has to be half of your 2000pt army to not be auto include in every list lol

Just shoot him

With what? Everything shy of a lascannon wounds on a 6+

Thundercoil Harpoon funnily enough is becoming more and more an anti-Primarch weapon. Hits on 2+. Wounds on 2+, on a 4+ just does 12 MW and insta-gibs him.

ziontrain wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Voss wrote:

However... the detachment rules make the flaw in the detachment system really obvious (and expected). These rules are NOT equal.
And space marines will have a giant pile of options to swap between on the fly. Facing Thousand Sons? Take the crusade and the anti-psyker vow. Built a smash army? Take red thirst. etc, etc.

You won't be able to take these detachments as a codex compliant chapter tho. Theyre locked to DA/SW/BT/DW.

Also, detachments are picked in listbuilding, you can't show up to a game, know what you're facing and then pick accordingly

"This means that any Space Marine army can choose to use these Detachments should they see fit, provided they abide by their restrictions" from the article

my bad, missed that.
well you're still restricted with keywords (so if you have a named char/faction specific unit, you can't pick one of these detachments that doesnt match).

And you still can't pick a detachment after seeing your opponent's list

ziontrain wrote:
"This means that any Space Marine army can choose to use these Detachments should they see fit, provided they abide by their restrictions" from the article

The restrictions are the important bit. I don't really care if someone wants to run "Blood Angels" with their marines. They're not changing their army from game to game.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
And you still can't pick a detachment after seeing your opponent's list

says who?
unless you play with tournament restrictions in casual matched play games, there is nothing that prevents you from changing the list after seeing what your opponent is bringing on the table

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Voss wrote:

However... the detachment rules make the flaw in the detachment system really obvious (and expected). These rules are NOT equal.
And space marines will have a giant pile of options to swap between on the fly. Facing Thousand Sons? Take the crusade and the anti-psyker vow. Built a smash army? Take red thirst. etc, etc.

You won't be able to take these detachments as a codex compliant chapter tho. Theyre locked to DA/SW/BT/DW.

They're explicitly not.

This means that any Space Marine army can choose to use these Detachments should they see fit, provided they abide by their restrictions – no matter how much you love Librarians, you won’t be taking Space Marine psykers in a Righteous Crusaders Detachment. The main one you’ll need to worry about is that you can’t mix in units with a different Chapter’s keywords, so no non-Space Wolves named characters or Deathwing Terminators in the Champions of Russ Detachment, for example

Don't take stuff tagged to other chapters (leaders or snowflake units) and they're open to everyone.

Also, detachments are picked in listbuilding, you can't show up to a game, know what you're facing and then pick accordingly

That's pretty contrary to my experience with pick-up games, where people often throw together a list on the fly.

I am really worried that some machtups might be really scuffed , how will they balance an anti psyker army like BT against a mostly psyker army like GK or TS? I still fail to see that the Psyker keyword will do anything positive unless they are way more costeffective than similar counterparts without the Psyker keyword

A lot of mixed feelings about the marines. I feel that the DA rule, while bland af, may be damn strong with how much battle shock could influence the game. I like that command squads are squads again and not individual characters. The Lion, good God, he’s a beast.
Now my Deathwatch. They’re OK…..I guess? But that datasheet, talk about watered down. I mean, so I choose which weapon is a bolter or a Long Vigil weapon? The shotgun, stalker, etc. There's no option for pair of lightning claws (which will lead me into next segment). Really not sure on them yet.
Ok, the sword brethren unit for Templars. The kit has a pair of lightning claws yet it’s absent from the datasheet. We can see from the Deathwing sheet what paired claws are supposed to do. Why is it absent here?

I feel like 10th is a way to play larger games of 40K (simplified), whereas 9th will probably be better at around 1000pts skirmish, with a little more depth for individual models.

Biasn wrote:
I am really worried that some machtups might be really scuffed , how will they balance an anti psyker army like BT against a mostly psyker army like GK or TS? I still fail to see that the Psyker keyword will do anything positive unless they are way more costeffective than similar counterparts without the Psyker keyword

anti-psyker 4+ does nothing against TS lol, You're already wounding all the psykers (except magnus) on a 4+


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:


Also, detachments are picked in listbuilding, you can't show up to a game, know what you're facing and then pick accordingly

That's pretty contrary to my experience with pick-up games, where people often throw together a list on the fly.

i addressed the rest after i was corrected.

As for the comment i'm quoting, I've never had one of these pick-up games where you show up to a store with your collection. All my pickup games have been setup on messenger before showing up to the store.

 Valkyrie wrote:

Biasn wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Biasn wrote:
What are these rules for Daddy Simba? 3++ , 4+++ against mortals , -1 to wound with damage reflection AND first strike so he minces everything in melee before even getting attacked? how are you supposed to kill this abomination. Has to be half of your 2000pt army to not be auto include in every list lol

Just shoot him

With what? Everything shy of a lascannon wounds on a 6+

Thundercoil Harpoon funnily enough is becoming more and more an anti-Primarch weapon. Hits on 2+. Wounds on 2+, on a 4+ just does 12 MW and insta-gibs him.

Only if you're in 12" when he's near another unit, it wounds on a 3+, only does the mortals on a 5+, and if you think it's likely to happen run the mortal wound aura.

Girlyman only has the 12" problem in comparison.

Why does GW hate Chaos so much? Now all the Daemon Engines are "Horus Heresy" units? Piss off GW. You're drunk!

Anyway, Chapters, Chapters, Chapters! I do appreciate them doing this all at once, rather than drip-feeding us one Marine Chapter after another for a whole week.

That said:

The Emperor of Man wrote:"They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give of themselves to me. Like clay I shall mould them, and in the furnace of war forge them. They will be of iron will and steely muscle. In great armour shall I clad them and with the mightiest guns will they be armed. They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them. They will have tactics, strategies and machines so that no foe can best them in battle. They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines and they shall Oaths of Moment."

Apparently...

I'm shocked - genuinely shocked - that despite the fact that they're getting their own books the various other Chapters are just being treated as detachments and all have Oaths of fething Moment.

Codex Doctrines make more sense as an army-wide rules for Codex Marines.
Sagas make more sense as an army-wide rule for Space Wolves.
Vows make more sense as an army-wide rule for Black Templars.
Mission Tactics make more sense as an army-wide rule for Deathwatch.

I have to presume that this Oath of Moment gak is just temporary, and come the apocalypse new Codices for these armies these "detachment" abilities will be promoted to full on faction rules. I also have to presume that specialist ammunition for Deathwatch will be a fething Stratagem rather than just intrinsic to their rules like they should be.

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but right now can a Deathwing Terminator with a Cyclone take twin Lightning Claws or TH/SS?

 kodos wrote:

they are just a poor company that can do nothing about it.....

♪

Is this the real life?
(We cancelled Fantasy)
Caught in a shitstorm,
No escape from reality
Open your eyes,
Look up to the web and see,
I'm just a poor corp, I need no sympathy,
Because I'm easy come, easy go,
Prices high, seldom low,
Any way the wind blows doesn't really matter to
Me, to me

Kirbyyyyy,
Just fleeced a man,
Put a pen against his list , struck of options,
Now he's pissed!
Kirbyyyy, this edition's done,
But now I've gone and thrown it all away
Kirbyyyy, oooh,
Didn't mean to make you cry,
If I'm not sold out this time tomorrow,
Carry on, carry on as if nothing really matters
Too late, my time has come,
Sends shivers down my spine, people raging all
online
Goodbye, everybody, I've got to go,
Gotta leave you all behind and face the truth
Kirbyyyyy, oooh
I don't want to pay,
I sometimes wish I'd never been thought the game at all.
I see a little silhouetto of a man,
Scaramouch, Scaramouch, will you do the Fandango!
Thunderbolts and lightning, very, very frightening me
Tourney Player, Tourney Player,
Tourney Player,, Tourney Player,
Tourney Player,, Figaro - magnificoo
I'm just a poor corp nobody loves me
He's just a poor corp with a poor history.
Spare his budget from this monstrosity
Easy come, easy go, will you let me go
Bismillah! No, we will not let you go
(Let him go!) Bismillah! We will not let you go
(Let him go!) Bismillah! We will not let you go
(Let me go) Will not let you go
(Let me go)(Never) Never let you go
(Let me go) (Never) let you go (Let me go) Ah
No, no, no, no, no, no, no
Oh mama mia, mama mia, mama mia, let me go
The online store has a copy put aside for me, for me,
For meee
So you think you can stop me and scrap my list
So you think you can love me and leave extremely pissed
Oh, baby, can't do this to me, baby,
Just gotta get out, just gotta get right outta here
Nothing really matters, Anyone can see,
Nothing really matters,
Nothing really matters to me
Any way the wind blows...

♫