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 SgtEeveell wrote:
I'm sure it's not at all concerning that the Leviathan box is "No Longer Available Online" instead of "Temporarily Out Of Stock Online". Not that I was planning on getting one anyway.

It isn't, because it's entirely in line with what they have been saying. And while I'm sure are those disappointed, that it stayed available for ~24hrs on the UK main store means most people that wanted one should have got it. Would it have been nicer if there was over stock and it was readily available at discount months after release like the AoS one? Yes. But I doubt GW were aiming for that.

40k is a guaranteed seller, AoS not so much. For a Stormcast player and Friend, they're fine but not really worth it outside of that unless you happen to play Cities of Sigmar and want to add some Stormkeep units in.
The 40k box, however, is applicable to six flavours of Space Marine (excluding the Chapters that seem to have been rolled back into generic Marines) plus a Friend.

Aw, you can't have more than two characters join a unit.

 Eldarsif wrote:
This might have been asked before, but the redemptor dreadnoughts has reduce damage by 1, but does not declare it can't go below 1. So does that mean it basically ignores all damage 1 weapons?

There's so much weird stuff that we need the designers commentary. They definitely left too much open to interpretation.


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 cole1114 wrote:
Aw, you can't have more than two characters join a unit.

It is permitted for certain combinations listed on the particular datasheets.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
This might have been asked before, but the redemptor dreadnoughts has reduce damage by 1, but does not declare it can't go below 1. So does that mean it basically ignores all damage 1 weapons?

There's so much weird stuff that we need the designers commentary. They definitely left too much open to interpretation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cole1114 wrote:
Aw, you can't have more than two characters join a unit.

It is permitted for certain combinations listed on the particular datasheets.

It got mentioned during one of the show matches that there's a designer commentary coming that'll clarify you can only take two characters per squad, even with all extra rules added on.

That's why the rules are stuff like "Apothecary can join a unit with a captain or chapter master or lieutenant" rather than and/or.

 alextroy wrote:
That is true. So the question is can any other characteristic be reduced to 0? Will be interesting to see what the put in the rules.

We have the rules though? Do you think there are going to be differences in the print version? Tbh, it is more likely that the print version is older that the online one, due to printing schedules and such. I guess it could be in an early faq.

the online version is just the core rules, we don't know yet what details there are in the full version of the rules as it could be that the core is what all 3 versions use while such things are different and therefore in the rules for matched play, crusade and combat patrol

 Trickstick wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
That is true. So the question is can any other characteristic be reduced to 0? Will be interesting to see what the put in the rules.

We have the rules though? Do you think there are going to be differences in the print version? Tbh, it is more likely that the print version is older that the online one, due to printing schedules and such. I guess it could be in an early faq.

It is likely that the real book will have a "special rules" appendix for unclear rule interactions again. We also expect a designer's commentary for explanation of edge cases.

Certainly would match 9e book.

We'll see but i'm not expecting immunity to stand.

One would think one day gw would stop opening this can of worms yet again.

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
I personally thought this launch went well. If you accept that GW will never have been able to make enough for everyone in the world who wanted one, the fact it was still available in the UK at 8am this morning (its OOS now) and after I had waited in the online queue for over an hour yesterday means they probably got the stock levels about right.

Going OOS for a product when you're the manufacturer and can simply make more (as they already have other times) is not something that would really happen unless the company wants to.

Third party retailers is another story (and even then they could also do it, if they wanted to), but I guess training buyers to go to their own webstore works for them.

Hopefully it's like AOS and the General's Handbook has a copy of the rules for matched play.

 Albertorius wrote:

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
I personally thought this launch went well. If you accept that GW will never have been able to make enough for everyone in the world who wanted one, the fact it was still available in the UK at 8am this morning (its OOS now) and after I had waited in the online queue for over an hour yesterday means they probably got the stock levels about right.

Going OOS for a product when you're the manufacturer and can simply make more (as they already have other times) is not something that would really happen unless the company wants to.

Third party retailers is another story (and even then they could also do it, if they wanted to), but I guess training buyers to go to their own webstore works for them.

What gives you the impression they won't be producing more of these models?

They just won't be selling them as a heavily discounted box.

 Gert wrote:
40k is a guaranteed seller, AoS not so much. For a Stormcast player and Friend, they're fine but not really worth it outside of that unless you happen to play Cities of Sigmar and want to add some Stormkeep units in.
The 40k box, however, is applicable to six flavours of Space Marine (excluding the Chapters that seem to have been rolled back into generic Marines) plus a Friend.

That and Space Marines alone have been quoted at times as being 50% of GW's total model sales in a given year - or very close to that value.
If they did Leviathan as Eldar vs Tyranids chances are it would have sold well but nothing like as well.

Simply put GW has a LOT of Marine players and they all want the boxed set. Plus everyone knows its super popular so I bet there's few buying the box just for the free cards and rules and then selling off both halves of the models.

Yeah. GW want this to sell to make a big packet of cash. But they also don't want to sell so many that for the next few years every kit in the box can easily be bought off ebay for a quarter of the RRP.

Not sure this is worth tracking, but as of this morning it looks like Marine halfs are going for £95-100, while Tyranids are more like £80-85. Which represents quite a healthy profit on £150 but not a crazy one. I think it may fall as the initial rush recedes. Doesn't tempt me at that price.

Edit.

I think Non-Marine sales would work if they were pursued in the same way. The issue in recent times (which I think GW claim as evidence) is that they don't discount as much - and often include ancient, unlooked for models.

For example compare Leviathan to Eldritch Omens (Eldar+CSM) at £125. If you went "I don't really want a Forgefiend from 2012" you had almost no discount at all. Same with say the DE/Eldar box for Psychic Awakening if you didn't put much value on the Falcon, Viper, Venom, Scourge and Hellions.

I've seen £75 and a few £70 here and there for the Tyranid half on ebay and on traders on FB. I suspect what we'll see is a steadily rising price until the boxed sets arrive in 2 weeks time then a drop as we get a fresh wave of stock from people who only put up ads once they have the item to sell and also more gamers/hobbyists selling off not just those splitting boxes intentionally.

Plus there will be a bunch of solo sales that will be cheap until GW gives us prices on the actual model set and then those prices tend to creep up as everyone balks at GW's price and the stock gets bought up fast on ebay.

Sounds about right.

Still no word from my FLGS how many boxes he got. There were 20+ signups which is a record number I think.

tneva82 wrote:
Certainly would match 9e book.

We'll see but i'm not expecting immunity to stand.

One would think one day gw would stop opening this can of worms yet again.

GW have a history of using Ctrl-C & Ctrl-V on rules, without bothering to check Errata to see if the actual text changed at some point

then since they seldom actually play the rules they publish without a lot of house rules/unpublished test rules etc they simply don't notice because they don't read what was written, they play what they meant it to mean

common sign of a company for whom technical writing and proofreading are considered costs that can be cut

 Albertorius wrote:


Going OOS for a product when you're the manufacturer and can simply make more (as they already have other times) is not something that would really happen unless the company wants to.

Third party retailers is another story (and even then they could also do it, if they wanted to), but I guess training buyers to go to their own webstore works for them.

It's not really the case that they can simply make more – it would take months. Leviathan includes both miniatures and printed product, which has to be printed externally then shipped to GW for packing into boxes with miniatures. It could easily be 6 to 9 months turnaround.

Greenfield wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:


Going OOS for a product when you're the manufacturer and can simply make more (as they already have other times) is not something that would really happen unless the company wants to.

Third party retailers is another story (and even then they could also do it, if they wanted to), but I guess training buyers to go to their own webstore works for them.

It's not really the case that they can simply make more – it would take months. Leviathan includes both miniatures and printed product, which has to be printed externally then shipped to GW for packing into boxes with miniatures. It could easily be 6 to 9 months turnaround.

It would also block a lot of production and S&H capacity that is planned in and required for other releases. GW would be pretty stupid to devote that much capacity to a heavily discounted box (for a second round) when other lines already suffered heavily from lack of capacity and there are full-price boxes to be made and sold.

Yep, people have to realise this boxed set is designed as a one-and-done cheap starter to encourage lots of established and former gamers to get hyped up and jump in. Even if they only jump in so far as to buy the box on a summer whim.

GW has plans for all of the models to be in general production along with other new models for both forces.

They don't need to do another print run; and if you wait long enough there is bound to be another partworks magazine with discounts on the same models yet again.

If you can wait till Christmas there's a good chance GW might even do a Christmas boxed set for Tyranids to maximise focus on them in this 1st half a year of 10th edition.

So if you can wait there's a good few options likely to come up where you can get the models outside of Leviathan, whilst on discount and if you can't wait chances are you'll be able to get all the models retail/3rd party in boxes. Heck some, like the Gaunts, will certainly come in a new boxed set with multipart weapon options.

Didn't they do a second wave for Indomitus?

Banner on the main page now:

They don't need to do another print run; and if you wait long enough there is bound to be another partworks magazine with discounts on the same models yet again.

For what it's worth, Valrak has said a 10th edition partworks thingy was planned according to his trusted sources a long time ago, sometime in february or march iirc, it's one of the first rumours in the OP.

Partworks is also a venue of publishing where they can reuse the exact same sprues, i.e. it does not matter that some Tyranid and Marine characters share a sprue.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Didn't they do a second wave for Indomitus?

Definitely a MTO and I think More On Top. But then, Indomitus sold out in what I remember to have been minutes. Certainly no more than a few hours.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Didn't they do a second wave for Indomitus?

Definitely a MTO and I think More On Top. But then, Indomitus sold out in what I remember to have been minutes. Certainly no more than a few hours.

Yeah, I think the MTO on Indomitus was more a response to the mishandling of the launch on their own website. They had constant crashes as it became overloaded and nothing in place to deter scalpers grabbing dozens of boxes. They probably also way underestimated demand. Even the last point probably doesn't really apply here. There will always be people who miss out on the initial release of a product like this, but I get the impression it's nowhere near as bad as Indomitus.

New Deathleaper

Not the best model I've seen, certainly not the worse.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Didn't they do a second wave for Indomitus?

Yes but those were exceptional circumstances.

GW had been shut down for over a month before; had had their entire 3rd party stock sold in that time; had had a massive market expansion as everyone was stuck home and had got into gaming; had covid work practice so when they were back up running they had one way systems and 5ft between workers so their factory and packing couldn't even run at normal capacity

Chances are they didn't even get their original predicted numbers for Indomitus made let alone had any forecasting to cope with market expansion that was totally unforeseen.

They did a made to order yes, but that was because everything then was totally crazy. Leviathan went out as normal, everything planned and all. There's still 3rd parties with stock; there's still going to be shelf stock at certainly GW stores if not 3rd parties as well.

 Valkyrie wrote:
New Deathleaper

Not the best model I've seen, certainly not the worse.

Finally, Nids are the last faction to get capes for its characters. I hope there's one with a trenchcoat too.

Tsagualsa wrote:

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment...

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
New Deathleaper

Not the best model I've seen, certainly not the worse.

Finally, Nids are the last faction to get capes for its characters. I hope there's one with a trenchcoat too.

They need to get to the other, annoying design fads soon:

Lithe dude/dudette standing on the back of bulky dude.
Centerpiece dude on scenic base surrounded by hanger-ons and abbeyants.
Creature with way too wide shoulders and torso on skimpy lower body and legs.
Centerpiece character on a howdah/throne/catafalque paraded around by normal dudes/monsters.

Having been indifferent to most of the Tyranid sculpts in Leviathan, I really like that.