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Lol, the most needed definition:

Just After: If a rule is triggered ‘just after’ something has happened,
it is resolved before anything else happens. For example, if a rule
is triggered ‘just after’ a unit selects targets for its attacks, that
rule is resolved before those attacks are resolved. The triggering of
such rules can therefore interrupt normal sequences such as the
attack sequence or the charge sequence.

Not Online!!! wrote:
It seems they prices the book and all the bits baseline in the legionaires nope no issue at all with freue upgrades...

I should clarify my other statement. It makes sense for Legionaries to cost more, but not for people to be essentially forced into those upgrades.

tneva82 wrote:

 oni wrote:
Holy feth! The Rules Commentary is longer than the fething Core Rules. What the literal feth?!?!?!

I would recommend trip to check your evesight if you think 18 pages longer than 61

The points pdf is 30 pages mate.

Also, I reckon the meant the volume of content rather than the literal page count.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
To some degree upgrades costing points doesn't matter much and they just make us feel good, but some things might deserve a bump. At the same time it feels like we're still in beta and we're going to find out what things need those bumps.

Under this system there is no reason for Ripper Swarms to not take spinemaws, or for ranged Tyranid Warriors to not take as many Venom Cannons and Barbed Stranglers as they can, or for command squads to not load up on every upgrade/option available.

I'm actually pretty okay with making most options free sidegrades; giving flamers/grenade launchers/plasma guns the same cost and balancing the statline is fine. But having no cost for even things that are unequivocal straight upgrades is nonsense.

 Grimtuff wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 oni wrote:
Holy feth! The Rules Commentary is longer than the fething Core Rules. What the literal feth?!?!?!

I would recommend trip to check your evesight if you think 18 pages longer than 61

The points pdf is 30 pages mate.

Also, I reckon the meant the volume of content rather than the literal page count.

It's also not a Rules Commentary, it's The Rules, Part 2. Usually a 'commentary' does not contain definitions, binding stipulations and so on.

 Grimtuff wrote:
Don't worry, all the usual "influencers" will tell us it is the bestest edition EVAR! as they pout in their videos claiming to be huge fans of 40k as they chuck the free gak GW gave them in the bin once GW forgets Leviathan exists when the new hotness appears for them...

"In previous editions putting together an army was an absolute chore. It was almost like a second job! Thankfully, with 10th Editions FinePoints™, we've taken the guesswork out of adding numbers together. Now all units have two set sizes... except for the ones that have multiple unusual sizes. All points are divisible by 5, and every upgrade is free! FinePoints™, they're simple, not simplistic!"

Slipspace wrote:
Better designers may have been able to accomplish that

Yea. If the datacards had been on point a case could be made, but again - feels like we're playtesting for them. Gonna be a rough 6 to 12 months.

Legends of the Horus Heresy Datasheets arrive next week. Will there be 3 Contemptor Dreadnought sheets? Shooty, melee and mixed or just the 1 sheet where a Contemptor with 2 Lascannons and a missile pod costs the same as a Contemptor with 2 fists? Ahem.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
Huh. So.

10 Intercessors... 190
10 (man) Tactical Squad.... 175

Chaos Marines
10 Legionnaires... 200.


----
just yesterday I was thinking necron flayed ones look a lot better. With points, I'm confused.

10 Warriors 120
10 Immortals 140
10 Deathmarks 130

10 Flayed Ones 140
Really?

Legionaries makes some sense since they have access to more upgrades. I haven't looked deeply at Necrons yet so no comment there.

No, it doesn't, because those upgrades are optional, and should therefore cost points, as they improve the unit. This is obvious. Pricing a unit as if it will always have the most optimal upgrades is just wrong.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
Huh. So.

10 Intercessors... 190
10 (man) Tactical Squad.... 175

Chaos Marines
10 Legionnaires... 200.

Legionaries makes some sense since they have access to more upgrades. I haven't looked deeply at Necrons yet so no comment there.

That's a hard sell. The difference is a powerfist equivalent and a psychic (a detriment in its own right) junk heavy bolter for 25 points.
Well and access to autocannons and chaincannons rather than grav weapons, and that seems like a loss.

Huh. They're priced the same as SM Devastator squads.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
It seems they prices the book and all the bits baseline in the legionaires nope no issue at all with freue upgrades...

I should clarify my other statement. It makes sense for Legionaries to cost more, but not for people to be essentially forced into those upgrades.

I called it , this is PL pretending to be points. I called it when free upgrades became the norm.


But it's a smart move by gw, now some people will need a box or two more of the units to fill in upgrades..

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
Better designers may have been able to accomplish that

Yea. If the datacards had been on point a case could be made, but again - feels like we're playtesting for them. Gonna be a rough 6 to 12 months.

Going to be the exciting wild west in my opinion. For many this is uncharted territory and I imagine there will be a lot of growing pains.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
No, it doesn't, because those upgrades are optional, and should therefore cost points, as they improve the unit. This is obvious. Pricing a unit as if it will always have the most optimal upgrades is just wrong.

Yea, sorry. I know what I'm saying is confusing, because there's two parts to it for me mentally and I don't often cross those thoughts. I completely agree that forcing upgrades is dumb.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eldarsif wrote:
Going to be the exciting wild west in my opinion. For many this is uncharted territory and I imagine there will be a lot of growing pains.

I'm totally going to dive in and enjoy the game, but I get the grief that people are experiencing right now.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
Don't worry, all the usual "influencers" will tell us it is the bestest edition EVAR! as they pout in their videos claiming to be huge fans of 40k as they chuck the free gak GW gave them in the bin once GW forgets Leviathan exists when the new hotness appears for them...

"In previous editions putting together an army was an absolute chore. It was almost like a second job! Thankfully, with 10th Editions FinePoints™, we've taken the guesswork out of adding numbers together. Now all units have two set sizes... except for the ones that have multiple unusual sizes. All points are divisible by 5, and every upgrade is free! FinePoints™, they're simple, not simplistic!"

So you've already received the script from their social media department?

The one that gets me are Necron bikes. They’ve got that 4+ save and no invulnerable on their card. Then they all get free no restrictions wargear on the back for a 3+ save and 5++ inv, which just serves to make the front of their card essentially list the wrong stats.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
Going to be the exciting wild west in my opinion. For many this is uncharted territory and I imagine there will be a lot of growing pains.

I'm totally going to dive in and enjoy the game, but I get the grief that people are experiencing right now.

I get it. As I have played Drukhari in the past you could say I am inured to these changes. I am like a leaf in the wind.

 AduroT wrote:
The one that gets me are Necron bikes. They’ve got that 4+ save and no invulnerable on their card. Then they all get free no restrictions wargear on the back for a 3+ save and 5++ inv, which just serves to make the front of their card essentially list the wrong stats.

That would require them to think about what they're doing.

 AduroT wrote:
The one that gets me are Necron bikes. They’ve got that 4+ save and no invulnerable on their card. Then they all get free no restrictions wargear on the back for a 3+ save and 5++ inv, which just serves to make the front of their card essentially list the wrong stats.

Not quite. They have to choose between Ignores Cover and the 5++. However, you're correct that the +1 to their save is a completely redundant line on their datacard since the upgrade is free.

 BertBert wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
Don't worry, all the usual "influencers" will tell us it is the bestest edition EVAR! as they pout in their videos claiming to be huge fans of 40k as they chuck the free gak GW gave them in the bin once GW forgets Leviathan exists when the new hotness appears for them...

"In previous editions putting together an army was an absolute chore. It was almost like a second job! Thankfully, with 10th Editions FinePoints™, we've taken the guesswork out of adding numbers together. Now all units have two set sizes... except for the ones that have multiple unusual sizes. All points are divisible by 5, and every upgrade is free! FinePoints™, they're simple, not simplistic!"

So you've already received the script from their social media department?

Did you see the article?

Rich from the Studio says: “Unit sizes are now much easier to manage. Rather than adding individual models to a squad, you buy them in increments – sets of five models, 10 models, and so on. These generally correlate to the quantity you’ll get in that unit’s box, so you won’t need to agonise over how to include all of the models you’ve bought. It also helps to quickly understand the strength of a full squad at a glance, and makes list-building far quicker and simpler.

They've spared us agony.

So combined keywords...

What does that mean for units that gain character and epic hero keywords?

I guess we'll see how it shakes out - but I think there's going to be massive imbalance in say Marines being priced with free stuff before the jump - and now other stuff being priced on the assumption you'll take 9 out of 10 possible upgrades whether you wanted to or not.

Kabalites for instance jumping to 120 from 80. Okay, I guess we get a dark lance, splinter cannon, shredder, blaster, blast pistol and (kinda) agonizer which costed 50. But I'm not sure they were actually "worth that" - hence the fact people typically didn't splash the points (and two heavy weapons wasn't allowed until yesterday). Wracks jumping from 45 to 65 because you'll take all the weapons.

But then a Ravager is only 95 so clearly they've finished paying for 8th edition's sins.

Comparing my 9th edition lists with the new 10th points, I am getting the impression that this is another round of model count creep that GW seems to do with each new edition. Anyone else feeling the same?

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 oni wrote:
Holy feth! The Rules Commentary is longer than the fething Core Rules. What the literal feth?!?!?!

I would recommend trip to check your evesight if you think 18 pages longer than 61

The points pdf is 30 pages mate.

Also, I reckon the meant the volume of content rather than the literal page count.

It's also not a Rules Commentary, it's The Rules, Part 2. Usually a 'commentary' does not contain definitions, binding stipulations and so on.

It's "Please God let us call it anything other than an Errata/FAQ, it's gonna look a bit bad if we need corrections/clarifications that are 1/3 of the size of the actual rules before the game is even released, call it a "Designer's Commentary" or something, that way we can style it out like these were obviously the only way to correctly interpret the rules and it isn't down to our shoddy work or lack of proofreading, it's user error on the part of the stupid players that picked up on the mistakes ambiguities. Yes, that'll do it, Designer's Commentary..."

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Legionaries makes some sense since they have access to more upgrades. I haven't looked deeply at Necrons yet so no comment there.

It doesn't make sense Daed. None of this makes sense.

Free upgrades is stupid. And you know it is.

My poor Eldar army. All Aspect warriors arranged in units of 5 + exarch. Now it's gone. Oh well, not like I was going to buy more GW's ones.

M.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Legionaries makes some sense since they have access to more upgrades. I haven't looked deeply at Necrons yet so no comment there.

It doesn't make sense Daed. None of this makes sense.

Free upgrades is stupid. And you know it is.

Stop complaining h.b.m.c , we can't allow that here, you are far too unhappy! And bring everyone else down you toxic person you/sarcasm.

Just consome product and get hyped for new product!!!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Legionaries makes some sense since they have access to more upgrades. I haven't looked deeply at Necrons yet so no comment there.

It doesn't make sense Daed. None of this makes sense.

Free upgrades is stupid. And you know it is.

I agree - see my other posts elaborating. I'm referencing a different aspect in this comment.

 AduroT wrote:
The one that gets me are Necron bikes. They’ve got that 4+ save and no invulnerable on their card. Then they all get free no restrictions wargear on the back for a 3+ save and 5++ inv, which just serves to make the front of their card essentially list the wrong stats.

It took me a couple of times to work out what you were talking about but... yeah. These models don't have 4+ saves, they have 3+/5++ saves. Because you'd never not take this.

What the fething feth?

What's the point of making Enhancements cost points if no other upgrades cost points?

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Legionaries makes some sense since they have access to more upgrades. I haven't looked deeply at Necrons yet so no comment there.

I'm going to charitably call that "a stretch". You know what doesn't make sense? Noise Marines are 3ppm cheaper than Legionaries. Due to the stupidity of free equipment, they also have utterly redundant boltguns since Sonic Blasters are strictly better.